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Re: [Authentic_SCA] period?

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  • Kirrily Robert
    ... It looks a bit like a Norman bliaut, but the fit is kinda wacky and the low square neckline is wackier. If you look at some other pics of people wearing
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 1, 2003
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      Sarah asked:
      > What period would this pattern work for, if any?
      > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?
      > s.item.3552=x&TI='3552'&pageNum=1&M=&UK=30855040
      > Decided to ask before I did a major search. I'd rather do the
      > least amount of alterations as possible, but I'd like a good SCA
      > dress. I AM planning on doing lacing rather than a zipper. I've got
      > my material that I know is not period, since it has a polyester
      > feel. I got it from the dollar a yard rack (so excited about that).
      > It is a good fabric, but a dollar because it was a remnant and they
      > don't say the fabric type with remnants.

      It looks a bit like a Norman bliaut, but the fit is kinda wacky and the
      low square neckline is wackier. If you look at some other pics of
      people wearing bliauts or other dresses from around that time you'll see
      that they don't have that low square neckline:

      http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=16
      http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=133
      http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=262

      If you look at http://aipon.50megs.com/10to14.htm you'll see a number of
      outfits with that general sort of look. Many of them are made from a
      simple rectangles-and-triangles pattern taken from the tunic of St
      Louis. You can find instructions off of this page:
      http://reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/ (And, as an added bonus,
      you'll probably find that it takes much less fabric than is used by the
      Simplicity pattern.)

      Yours,

      Katherine


      --
      Lady Katherine Rowberd (mka Kirrily "Skud" Robert)
      katherine@... http://elizabethangeek.com/
      Caldrithig, Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere
      "The rose is red, the leaves are grene, God save Elizabeth our Queene"
    • Carolin
      ... From what I can tell it is similar to a bliaut which would be a garment of the 12th c. ... I also have some rather crude redrawings (no not Norris, German
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 1, 2003
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        >
        >Hello,
        >I'm cross posting a bit, so if you've seen this before, ignor it
        >please.
        >
        >What period would this pattern work for, if any?
        >http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?
        >s.item.3552=x&TI='3552'&pageNum=1&M=&UK=30855040
        >Decided to ask before I did a major search. I'd rather do the
        >least amount of alterations as possible, but I'd like a good SCA
        >dress. I AM planning on doing lacing rather than a zipper. I've got
        >my material that I know is not period, since it has a polyester
        >feel. I got it from the dollar a yard rack (so excited about that).
        >It is a good fabric, but a dollar because it was a remnant and they
        >don't say the fabric type with remnants.
        >
        >So help please! I love this pattern!
        >Sarah
        >
        From what I can tell it is similar to a bliaut which would be a
        garment of the 12th c. ... I also have some rather crude redrawings
        (no not Norris, German book... ) of paintings with 12th c dresses
        dresses like that, but they would follow more a T tunic like pattern
        and also have side lacing to get some form fitting.
        The pattern itself... well if you want to create something that looks
        authentic: don't use the pattern. The neckline looks wrong, they
        would not have used princess seams (the thing coming closest to
        princess seams is the 10 gore dress found in Herjolfsnes, but these
        aren't princess seams either, just seams going down the side, more or
        less under the arm).
        Now, after I told you, don't use the pattern... there should be an
        alternative, right... hm... I only have some of the pages with
        research on bliauts, but that should help:
        Marguerie's Bliaut page:
        http://jauncourt.i8.com/bliautho.htm
        She is on this list as well I think and will for sure be able to help
        you with further questions.
        Arianne de Chateaumichel has another website on the bliaut (that my
        computer doesn't want to load right now, I hope it is only temporary):
        http://www.chateau-michel.org/belle_bliaut.htm

        Good luck!

        --
        Yours,
        Carolin

        ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
        Carolin vom Adlersberg Barony of Storvik, Atlantia
        http://www.fairyforest.org/sca
      • Dianne & Greg Stucki
        ... From: To: Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] period? ... Actually,
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 1, 2003
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <bronwynmgn@...>
          To: <Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:30 AM
          Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] period?


          > In a message dated 9/1/2003 5:09:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
          > Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:
          >
          > > What period would this pattern work for, if any?
          > > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?
          > > s.item.3552=x&TI='3552'&pageNum=1&M=&UK=30855040
          > > Decided to ask before I did a major search.

          Actually, it looks to me like a pretty close copy of the Accolade dress.
          Beautiful, but not authentic to any one time period.

          Laurensa
        • Marianne Perdomo Machin
          ... I think the pattern would be different but the general look reminds me of early 16th century French gowns . These were used in Spain around 1520 or so,
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 1, 2003
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            >
            > What period would this pattern work for, if any?
            > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?
            > s.item.3552=x&TI='3552'&pageNum=1&M=&UK=30855040

            I think the pattern would be different but the general look reminds me
            of early 16th century "French gowns". These were used in Spain around
            1520 or so, though I'm sure other places had something similar. They
            have the low-cut square neckline and the wide "angel" sleeves, but (I
            believe) don't have the "armband" decoration.
            The problem is that the skirt is usually gathered onto the bodice part
            of the gown, so I think the look would be different in that area.
            Still, it's another alternative to consider.
            If you're interested try to check out Ruth M. Anderson's "Hispanic
            Costume 1480-1530".

            All the best!



            Marianne
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