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period?

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  • Sarah
    Hello, I m cross posting a bit, so if you ve seen this before, ignor it please. What period would this pattern work for, if any?
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 31, 2003
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      Hello,
      I'm cross posting a bit, so if you've seen this before, ignor it
      please.

      What period would this pattern work for, if any?
      http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?
      s.item.3552=x&TI='3552'&pageNum=1&M=&UK=30855040
      Decided to ask before I did a major search. I'd rather do the
      least amount of alterations as possible, but I'd like a good SCA
      dress. I AM planning on doing lacing rather than a zipper. I've got
      my material that I know is not period, since it has a polyester
      feel. I got it from the dollar a yard rack (so excited about that).
      It is a good fabric, but a dollar because it was a remnant and they
      don't say the fabric type with remnants.

      So help please! I love this pattern!
      Sarah
    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
      In a message dated 9/1/2003 5:09:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... It seems to have elements of both Norman (the sleeves and belt area) and Tudor (the neckline,
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 1, 2003
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        In a message dated 9/1/2003 5:09:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
        Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:

        > What period would this pattern work for, if any?
        > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?
        > s.item.3552=x&TI='3552'&pageNum=1&M=&UK=30855040
        > Decided to ask before I did a major search. I'd rather do the
        > least amount of alterations as possible, but I'd like a good SCA
        > dress. I AM planning on doing lacing rather than a zipper. I've got
        > my material that I know is not period, since it has a polyester
        > feel. I got it from the dollar a yard rack (so excited about that).
        > It is a good fabric, but a dollar because it was a remnant and they
        > don't say the fabric type with remnants.
        >

        It seems to have elements of both Norman (the sleeves and belt area) and
        Tudor (the neckline, for instance), which makes it problematical as those time
        periods are roughly 400 years apart and the elements wouldn't be combined in the
        same gown in period.
        Although this article does not cover the pattern you selected, you might find
        it useful:
        <A HREF="http://www.virtue.to/articles/modern_patterns.html">http://www.virtue.to/articles/modern_patterns.html</A>

        Also this one, as a guide to appropriate fabrics for furture purchases:
        <A HREF="http://www.virtue.to/articles/modern_fabric.html">http://www.virtue.to/articles/modern_fabric.html</A>

        And another for looking at existing garments so you know what to look for in
        patterns:
        <A HREF="http://www.virtue.to/articles/extant.html">http://www.virtue.to/articles/extant.html</A>

        As far as the polyester-type fabric, the main drawbacks are that you will
        find it very warm for summer events, and that you will need to be extremely
        careful around the open flames (campfires, candles, torches, etc) commonly found at
        SCA events, as the fabric will either catch fire very readily or melt and
        stick to you, or both, if you get too close to the flame.

        Brangwayna Morgan


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kirrily Robert
        ... It looks a bit like a Norman bliaut, but the fit is kinda wacky and the low square neckline is wackier. If you look at some other pics of people wearing
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 1, 2003
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          Sarah asked:
          > What period would this pattern work for, if any?
          > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?
          > s.item.3552=x&TI='3552'&pageNum=1&M=&UK=30855040
          > Decided to ask before I did a major search. I'd rather do the
          > least amount of alterations as possible, but I'd like a good SCA
          > dress. I AM planning on doing lacing rather than a zipper. I've got
          > my material that I know is not period, since it has a polyester
          > feel. I got it from the dollar a yard rack (so excited about that).
          > It is a good fabric, but a dollar because it was a remnant and they
          > don't say the fabric type with remnants.

          It looks a bit like a Norman bliaut, but the fit is kinda wacky and the
          low square neckline is wackier. If you look at some other pics of
          people wearing bliauts or other dresses from around that time you'll see
          that they don't have that low square neckline:

          http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=16
          http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=133
          http://amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=262

          If you look at http://aipon.50megs.com/10to14.htm you'll see a number of
          outfits with that general sort of look. Many of them are made from a
          simple rectangles-and-triangles pattern taken from the tunic of St
          Louis. You can find instructions off of this page:
          http://reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/ (And, as an added bonus,
          you'll probably find that it takes much less fabric than is used by the
          Simplicity pattern.)

          Yours,

          Katherine


          --
          Lady Katherine Rowberd (mka Kirrily "Skud" Robert)
          katherine@... http://elizabethangeek.com/
          Caldrithig, Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere
          "The rose is red, the leaves are grene, God save Elizabeth our Queene"
        • Carolin
          ... From what I can tell it is similar to a bliaut which would be a garment of the 12th c. ... I also have some rather crude redrawings (no not Norris, German
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 1, 2003
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            >
            >Hello,
            >I'm cross posting a bit, so if you've seen this before, ignor it
            >please.
            >
            >What period would this pattern work for, if any?
            >http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?
            >s.item.3552=x&TI='3552'&pageNum=1&M=&UK=30855040
            >Decided to ask before I did a major search. I'd rather do the
            >least amount of alterations as possible, but I'd like a good SCA
            >dress. I AM planning on doing lacing rather than a zipper. I've got
            >my material that I know is not period, since it has a polyester
            >feel. I got it from the dollar a yard rack (so excited about that).
            >It is a good fabric, but a dollar because it was a remnant and they
            >don't say the fabric type with remnants.
            >
            >So help please! I love this pattern!
            >Sarah
            >
            From what I can tell it is similar to a bliaut which would be a
            garment of the 12th c. ... I also have some rather crude redrawings
            (no not Norris, German book... ) of paintings with 12th c dresses
            dresses like that, but they would follow more a T tunic like pattern
            and also have side lacing to get some form fitting.
            The pattern itself... well if you want to create something that looks
            authentic: don't use the pattern. The neckline looks wrong, they
            would not have used princess seams (the thing coming closest to
            princess seams is the 10 gore dress found in Herjolfsnes, but these
            aren't princess seams either, just seams going down the side, more or
            less under the arm).
            Now, after I told you, don't use the pattern... there should be an
            alternative, right... hm... I only have some of the pages with
            research on bliauts, but that should help:
            Marguerie's Bliaut page:
            http://jauncourt.i8.com/bliautho.htm
            She is on this list as well I think and will for sure be able to help
            you with further questions.
            Arianne de Chateaumichel has another website on the bliaut (that my
            computer doesn't want to load right now, I hope it is only temporary):
            http://www.chateau-michel.org/belle_bliaut.htm

            Good luck!

            --
            Yours,
            Carolin

            ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
            Carolin vom Adlersberg Barony of Storvik, Atlantia
            http://www.fairyforest.org/sca
          • Dianne & Greg Stucki
            ... From: To: Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] period? ... Actually,
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 1, 2003
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <bronwynmgn@...>
              To: <Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:30 AM
              Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] period?


              > In a message dated 9/1/2003 5:09:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
              > Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:
              >
              > > What period would this pattern work for, if any?
              > > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?
              > > s.item.3552=x&TI='3552'&pageNum=1&M=&UK=30855040
              > > Decided to ask before I did a major search.

              Actually, it looks to me like a pretty close copy of the Accolade dress.
              Beautiful, but not authentic to any one time period.

              Laurensa
            • Marianne Perdomo Machin
              ... I think the pattern would be different but the general look reminds me of early 16th century French gowns . These were used in Spain around 1520 or so,
              Message 6 of 6 , Sep 1, 2003
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                >
                > What period would this pattern work for, if any?
                > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?
                > s.item.3552=x&TI='3552'&pageNum=1&M=&UK=30855040

                I think the pattern would be different but the general look reminds me
                of early 16th century "French gowns". These were used in Spain around
                1520 or so, though I'm sure other places had something similar. They
                have the low-cut square neckline and the wide "angel" sleeves, but (I
                believe) don't have the "armband" decoration.
                The problem is that the skirt is usually gathered onto the bodice part
                of the gown, so I think the look would be different in that area.
                Still, it's another alternative to consider.
                If you're interested try to check out Ruth M. Anderson's "Hispanic
                Costume 1480-1530".

                All the best!



                Marianne
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