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Re: Courtesans Re: [Authentic_SCA] WAS:Cross dressing, lesbians and the law

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  • hasoferet@aol.com
    In a message dated 8/1/2003 8:03:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... I assume, without dismissing your research problems, that you mean _in Europe_? ;) If so, I
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 1, 2003
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      In a message dated 8/1/2003 8:03:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
      kmaitland@... writes:

      >
      > [The other reason was for authentic -albeit arguably political- purposes.
      > In my first 5 years of research, I could not document a Black noblewoman.

      I assume, without dismissing your research problems, that you mean _in
      Europe_? ;) If so, I believe you're on the right track with the Medici and with
      Spain. What sorts of things have you found? You were mentioning businesswomen
      (more my alley than the nobility anyway.) What kinds of activities were they
      involved in?


      >
      >
      > But I grant you that playing a courtesan is NOT easy. I have had to deal
      > with verbal abuse, susposedly because such abuse would have been period
      > *roll eyes*.

      So is hot-tempered young men with more money than sense sending thugs in
      tights around to kill they guy who made Agnese cry. _Why_ do people think they can
      act like jerks just because we're pretending it's the Middle Ages?

      Raquel


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dave & Megan
      I d been interrested. And more likely to get to read it if it was webbed. Gwenhyfar. ... From: Kristine Maitland To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com Sent:
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 1, 2003
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        I'd been interrested. And more likely to get to read it if it was webbed.
        Gwenhyfar.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Kristine Maitland
        To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 2:02 PM
        Subject: Courtesans Re: [Authentic_SCA] WAS:Cross dressing, lesbians and the law


        Ariane ha scritta

        " The key difference, however,
        is that Vittoria makes her living as a courtesan, while the modern me is
        frequently (and deservedly!) teased for being a prude."

        This is common in many courtesan personas I have met in the SCA, so you are
        not alone Ariane.

        As I noted in a previous post, there's little difference between the persona
        and the modern me. The persona was, until last year, a courtesan. The
        modern me, like you Ariane, is a lady of letters (I'm a library tech)... but
        I also teach erotic dance at a women's sex toy shop. I could not maintain
        the mythos of "cortigiane oneste" if I tried -- goes against my nature.*wry
        smile* This is one of the reasons why I never played a noblewoman.

        [The other reason was for authentic -albeit arguably political- purposes.
        In my first 5 years of research, I could not document a Black noblewoman. I
        can now, eg Giulia de Medici.,the majority of those would be "passing"
        albeit barely in some cases. Aside: Gabrielle Langdon, an art historian,
        has recently told me that the Medicis were constantly "doing" Black women :
        they used to send each other Black female sex slaves -- as GIFTS]

        Then I got to the point where I figured that a Black courtesan (and
        definitely a Black prostitute) was plausable in Venice -- I just have to
        track it down in the records.... at some point.

        But I grant you that playing a courtesan is NOT easy. I have had to deal
        with verbal abuse, susposedly because such abuse would have been period
        *roll eyes*. So I finally married Agnese (I answer to Inez) off. But this
        "good girl" persona really goes against the grain so I think I'm gonna go
        back to my old ways.

        I'm even considering putting together a libro delle cortegiane
        ("courtesan's handbook"). Why let all that period sex work research go to
        waste? Doubt Complet A would publish it, so I would probably just put it up
        on the web. What do you think?

        in service

        Agnese "Inez" Rusconi
        Historian for the Barony of Ben Dunfirth
        Ealdormere

        mundanely:
        Kristine Maitland
        Researcher of alternative histories
        www.kmaitland.ca





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      • Kristine Maitland
        Ariane ha scritta The key difference, however, is that Vittoria makes her living as a courtesan, while the modern me is frequently (and deservedly!) teased
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 1, 2003
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          Ariane ha scritta

          " The key difference, however,
          is that Vittoria makes her living as a courtesan, while the modern me is
          frequently (and deservedly!) teased for being a prude."

          This is common in many courtesan personas I have met in the SCA, so you are
          not alone Ariane.

          As I noted in a previous post, there's little difference between the persona
          and the modern me. The persona was, until last year, a courtesan. The
          modern me, like you Ariane, is a lady of letters (I'm a library tech)... but
          I also teach erotic dance at a women's sex toy shop. I could not maintain
          the mythos of "cortigiane oneste" if I tried -- goes against my nature.*wry
          smile* This is one of the reasons why I never played a noblewoman.

          [The other reason was for authentic -albeit arguably political- purposes.
          In my first 5 years of research, I could not document a Black noblewoman. I
          can now, eg Giulia de Medici.,the majority of those would be "passing"
          albeit barely in some cases. Aside: Gabrielle Langdon, an art historian,
          has recently told me that the Medicis were constantly "doing" Black women :
          they used to send each other Black female sex slaves -- as GIFTS]

          Then I got to the point where I figured that a Black courtesan (and
          definitely a Black prostitute) was plausable in Venice -- I just have to
          track it down in the records.... at some point.

          But I grant you that playing a courtesan is NOT easy. I have had to deal
          with verbal abuse, susposedly because such abuse would have been period
          *roll eyes*. So I finally married Agnese (I answer to Inez) off. But this
          "good girl" persona really goes against the grain so I think I'm gonna go
          back to my old ways.

          I'm even considering putting together a libro delle cortegiane
          ("courtesan's handbook"). Why let all that period sex work research go to
          waste? Doubt Complet A would publish it, so I would probably just put it up
          on the web. What do you think?

          in service

          Agnese "Inez" Rusconi
          Historian for the Barony of Ben Dunfirth
          Ealdormere

          mundanely:
          Kristine Maitland
          Researcher of alternative histories
          www.kmaitland.ca
        • Kristine Maitland
          ... Rachel ha scritta: I assume, without dismissing your research problems, that you mean _in Europe_? *Raised eyebrow* Where else? LOL As for Black
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 1, 2003
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            > [The other reason was for authentic -albeit arguably political- purposes.
            > In my first 5 years of research, I could not document a Black noblewoman.

            Rachel ha scritta:

            "I assume, without dismissing your research problems, that you mean _in
            Europe_?"

            *Raised eyebrow* Where else? LOL

            As for Black Businesswomen (and we are talking freedwomen here), activities
            include things like innkeeping, huskstering, and washing, if we are talking
            Spain and Portugal ( I recall reading of one BW who make her living in "fast
            food" -- roasted chickpeas, as it happens). I mean to take a closer look at
            Black women in England at some point, since short of prostitution I don't
            know much about them.

            "So is hot-tempered young men with more money than sense sending thugs in
            tights around to kill they guy who made Agnese cry. _Why_ do people think
            they can
            act like jerks just because we're pretending it's the Middle Ages?"

            Ahhh, but it's not the guys who do the verbal abuse. Ealdormerian men know
            full well that I would clock them one. It's been a few women who have
            called me "whore" -- in persona, course. Which is funny considering I don't
            "play" with married men... unless I have flirted with their wives first
            *grin*.

            I guess I ought to be glad that calling me a n----r isn't period *rolls with
            laughter*

            in service

            Agnese "Inez" Rusconi
            Historian for the Barony of Ben Dunfirth
            Ealdormere

            mundanely:
            Kristine Maitland
            Researcher of alternative histories
            www.kmaitland.ca
          • hasoferet@aol.com
            In a message dated 8/1/2003 10:31:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Aaaargh. R. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 1, 2003
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              In a message dated 8/1/2003 10:31:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
              kmaitland@... writes:


              > Ahhh, but it's not the guys who do the verbal abuse. Ealdormerian men know
              > full well that I would clock them one. It's been a few women who have
              > called me "whore" -- in persona, course.

              Aaaargh.

              R.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • peterofmarin
              Here are a few intersting links that might be of interest: Africans in Medieval Europe... http://www.vcsse.ucr.edu:16080/honors/Courses/hnpg036f.html Famous
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 21, 2003
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                Here are a few intersting links that might be of interest:

                Africans in Medieval Europe...
                http://www.vcsse.ucr.edu:16080/honors/Courses/hnpg036f.html

                Famous Lesbian Pirates...
                http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/pirates.htm

                Interracial Pirate Utopias...
                http://www.eco-action.org/dod/no8/pdfs/pirates.pdf.

                Aparently there was an egalitarianism among 17th century pirates that
                transcended race and governments, and I remember reading something about a
                pirate queen in Madagascar who amassed great wealth because of the island's
                function as a pirate stop off and safe haven.

                -Peter

                http://www.RenaissanceGoods.com
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