Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Authentic_SCA] [Fwd: [EK] The Historic Combat Series at Pennsic XXXII]

Expand Messages
  • bronwynmgn@aol.com
    In a message dated 7/30/2003 1:47:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Yes - but the Board has just ruled that all grappling in combat MUST cease immediately, so
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 31, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      In a message dated 7/30/2003 1:47:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:

      > Hi all... I'm soure there are some who are interested in this!
      >

      Yes - but the Board has just ruled that all grappling in combat MUST cease
      immediately, so it's going to change the rules for some of this stuff...

      Brangwayna
      (who understands there is more risk involved, but is still upset that the BOD
      is creating a deliberately anti-authenticity ruling.)


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • mastergunner1588
      ... MUST cease ... stuff... ... that the BOD ... WARNING- RANT FOLLOWS!!! Again we see an assault on period technique and style in the interest of keeping it
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 31, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, bronwynmgn@a... wrote:

        > Yes - but the Board has just ruled that all grappling in combat
        MUST cease
        > immediately, so it's going to change the rules for some of this
        stuff...
        >
        > Brangwayna
        > (who understands there is more risk involved, but is still upset
        that the BOD
        > is creating a deliberately anti-authenticity ruling.)

        WARNING- RANT FOLLOWS!!!

        Again we see an assault on period technique and style in the interest
        of 'keeping it safe'. For whom? The lawyers? The paranoids?
        When you pick up a weapon and walk into a list field, you risk injury
        or death. That is a fact of martial arts, and always has been. If
        you don't want to take the risk, don't play. Don't destroy the game
        so that you can call yourself a fighter or fencer without taking any
        risk. There is a reasonable level of safety, and then there is
        taking it to extremes and destroying any hint of authenticity.

        The Society makes rules and regs to be inclusive of all. In the case
        of combat, this is a huge mistake, IMNSHO. Not everyone belongs on
        the list field, but the Society puts such a premium on combat that
        many people who shouldn't be out there feel pressured to do so. The
        knock on to that is that the Society makes the rules to 'protect' the
        people who shouldn't be out there in the first place.

        From my side, rapier, all the period manuals show various grapples
        and throws. I'm not advocating this be a universal part of the game,
        but if two people agree to add those facets, then it should be
        allowed. Corps-a-corps, grasping the sword wrist of your opponent,
        even the patella montante (kneecap to the cods), are all part of
        swordplay. 20 years ago, when I was part of the group writing the EK
        fencing rules, we envisioned a free-wheeling, swashbuckling street
        fight, and wrote the rules accordingly. I have seen a a constant
        watering down of those rules over the years, eliminating this, that,
        and the other thing, just to make the game "more friendly". You have
        a sword in your hand and you're trying to "kill" your opponent. How
        friendly can this be?

        Yes, this is a big red candy coloured button for me. Combat is for
        the warrior, not the dilettante.

        Hawkyns
      • Marsha McLean
        Thhis should really go to the BoD, methinks. Madinia ... http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 31, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Thhis should really go to the BoD, methinks.

          Madinia

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: mastergunner1588 [mailto:cannoneer@...]
          > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:45 AM
          > To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re: [Fwd: [EK] The Historic Combat Series at
          > Pennsic XXXII]
          >
          > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, bronwynmgn@a... wrote:
          >
          > > Yes - but the Board has just ruled that all grappling in combat
          > MUST cease
          > > immediately, so it's going to change the rules for some of this
          > stuff...
          > >
          > > Brangwayna
          > > (who understands there is more risk involved, but is still upset
          > that the BOD
          > > is creating a deliberately anti-authenticity ruling.)
          >
          > WARNING- RANT FOLLOWS!!!
          >
          > Again we see an assault on period technique and style in the interest
          > of 'keeping it safe'. For whom? The lawyers? The paranoids?
          > When you pick up a weapon and walk into a list field, you risk injury
          > or death. That is a fact of martial arts, and always has been. If
          > you don't want to take the risk, don't play. Don't destroy the game
          > so that you can call yourself a fighter or fencer without taking any
          > risk. There is a reasonable level of safety, and then there is
          > taking it to extremes and destroying any hint of authenticity.
          >
          > The Society makes rules and regs to be inclusive of all. In the case
          > of combat, this is a huge mistake, IMNSHO. Not everyone belongs on
          > the list field, but the Society puts such a premium on combat that
          > many people who shouldn't be out there feel pressured to do so. The
          > knock on to that is that the Society makes the rules to 'protect' the
          > people who shouldn't be out there in the first place.
          >
          > From my side, rapier, all the period manuals show various grapples
          > and throws. I'm not advocating this be a universal part of the game,
          > but if two people agree to add those facets, then it should be
          > allowed. Corps-a-corps, grasping the sword wrist of your opponent,
          > even the patella montante (kneecap to the cods), are all part of
          > swordplay. 20 years ago, when I was part of the group writing the EK
          > fencing rules, we envisioned a free-wheeling, swashbuckling street
          > fight, and wrote the rules accordingly. I have seen a a constant
          > watering down of those rules over the years, eliminating this, that,
          > and the other thing, just to make the game "more friendly". You have
          > a sword in your hand and you're trying to "kill" your opponent. How
          > friendly can this be?
          >
          > Yes, this is a big red candy coloured button for me. Combat is for
          > the warrior, not the dilettante.
          >
          > Hawkyns
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          > ----------------------------------------------------
          > This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > authentic_SCA-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • dparishwhittaker
          My understanding is that the BoD had already ruled on rapier (not sure about rattan). ANY contact is forbidden. They specifically mentioned open hand pushes
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 31, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            My understanding is that the BoD had already ruled on rapier (not
            sure about rattan).

            ANY contact is forbidden. They specifically mentioned open hand
            pushes that contact the opponent's hand or forearm. Not even a
            strike, not even a grapple, just enough contact to cause the thrust
            to go astray.

            Somewhere, George Silver is choking on his ale.

            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Marsha McLean"
            <marshamclean@r...> wrote:
            > Thhis should really go to the BoD, methinks.
            >
            > Madinia
            >
          • Marsha McLean
            No, I meant his letter, specifically, not the rule, which obviously originated with the BoD. Madinia ... http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 31, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              No, I meant his letter, specifically, not the rule, which obviously
              originated with the BoD.

              Madinia

              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: dparishwhittaker [mailto:davidparishwhittaker@...]
              > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 11:14 PM
              > To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re: [Fwd: [EK] The Historic Combat Series at
              > Pennsic XXXII]
              >
              > My understanding is that the BoD had already ruled on rapier (not
              > sure about rattan).
              >
              > ANY contact is forbidden. They specifically mentioned open hand
              > pushes that contact the opponent's hand or forearm. Not even a
              > strike, not even a grapple, just enough contact to cause the thrust
              > to go astray.
              >
              > Somewhere, George Silver is choking on his ale.
              >
              > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Marsha McLean"
              > <marshamclean@r...> wrote:
              > > Thhis should really go to the BoD, methinks.
              > >
              > > Madinia
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >
              > ----------------------------------------------------
              > This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > authentic_SCA-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Ii Saburou
              Okay, I m curious: why can judo folks throw each other around but not SCA folks? Is it because they have a different insurance company? Pay more for
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 31, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Okay, I'm curious: why can judo folks throw each other around but not SCA
                folks? Is it because they have a different insurance company? Pay more
                for insurance? Or are they considered less dangerous because they are a
                'martial art'? How are dojos surviving if insurance is such a problem?

                Is it just that we don't require enough training? Or that somehow the
                various dojos get across to people the point that 'you can and may be hurt
                doing martial activities'?

                -Ii

                On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, dparishwhittaker wrote:

                > My understanding is that the BoD had already ruled on rapier (not
                > sure about rattan).
                >
                > ANY contact is forbidden. They specifically mentioned open hand
                > pushes that contact the opponent's hand or forearm. Not even a
                > strike, not even a grapple, just enough contact to cause the thrust
                > to go astray.
                >
                > Somewhere, George Silver is choking on his ale.
                >
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.