Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Another thought...

Expand Messages
  • Michael Suggs
    This one would probably be more up Bogdan s alley, in the period anti-arthropod category... While sitting here, idly pondering how much I d rather go to
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      This one would probably be more up Bogdan's alley, in the "period
      anti-arthropod" category...

      While sitting here, idly pondering how much I'd rather go to Pennsic
      than Tuscaloosa, contemplating garb (and, more specifically, garb
      storage), the thought struck me:

      Do we know of 'period' anti-moth practices? Modernly, of course, we
      use aromatic cedar and/or mothballs... And (from what I've read
      since I thought of this) "frequent use of woolens and other animal
      fiber clothing almost assures no damage from clothes moth larvae"
      (OSU Extension Fact Sheet). If "frequent use" doesn't describe most
      of our garb, I don't know what does...

      --Mikhail, pondering making cedar-lined chests for to hold garb...
    • aheilvei
      ... we ... most ... Same things... mixtures of herbs placed into the storage chests. Smiles, Despina
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        > Do we know of 'period' anti-moth practices? Modernly, of course,
        we
        > use aromatic cedar and/or mothballs... And (from what I've read
        > since I thought of this) "frequent use of woolens and other animal
        > fiber clothing almost assures no damage from clothes moth larvae"
        > (OSU Extension Fact Sheet). If "frequent use" doesn't describe
        most
        > of our garb, I don't know what does...


        Same things... mixtures of herbs placed into the storage chests.

        Smiles,
        Despina
      • Marsha McLean
        ... Cedar and Sweet Woodruff (an herb) are both said to be effective. In India, Neem leaves are used as a general insecticide. I have seen them sold in Indian
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          > From: Michael Suggs
          > Do we know of 'period' anti-moth practices? Modernly, of course, we
          > use aromatic cedar and/or mothballs... And (from what I've read
          > since I thought of this) "frequent use of woolens and other animal
          > fiber clothing almost assures no damage from clothes moth larvae"
          > (OSU Extension Fact Sheet). If "frequent use" doesn't describe most
          > of our garb, I don't know what does...
          >
          Cedar and Sweet Woodruff (an herb) are both said to be effective.

          In India, Neem leaves are used as a general insecticide. I have seen
          them sold in Indian Groceries.

          Madinia
        • Lady_Lark_Azure
          ... we ... most ... This came up on another list I m on and it was noted if you are going to use cedar, to make sure that you have acid free tissue paper
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            > > Do we know of 'period' anti-moth practices? Modernly, of course,
            we
            > > use aromatic cedar and/or mothballs... And (from what I've read
            > > since I thought of this) "frequent use of woolens and other animal
            > > fiber clothing almost assures no damage from clothes moth larvae"
            > > (OSU Extension Fact Sheet). If "frequent use" doesn't describe
            most
            > > of our garb, I don't know what does...

            This came up on another list I'm on and it was noted if you are going
            to use cedar, to make sure that you have acid free tissue paper
            wrapping up any silk or wool. Apparantly long contact with the cedar
            can eat away at the fabrics.

            Isabeau
          • Jan C. Lane
            Actually, all fibers should be protected from direct contact with unfinished wood. The tannins in the wood are acidic by nature and can cause color changes in
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Actually, all fibers should be protected from direct contact with unfinished
              wood. The tannins in the wood are acidic by nature and can cause color
              changes in natural dyes as well as deterioration of the fibers. Wrap your
              garb in old sheets or lengths of muslin wherever it will be in direct
              contact with the wood. :)

              Happy garbing,

              Jannifer
            • Michael Suggs
              Thank you all for some insightful posts so far... It s good to know that going with cedar isn t off the deep end, authenticitically speaking. I d heard of
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Thank you all for some insightful posts so far... It's good to know
                that going with cedar isn't "off the deep end," authenticitically
                speaking. I'd heard of freezing the cloth, but forgotten it...

                And I hadn't thought of protecting the cloth from unfinished
                wood... Hmmm...

                Please, keep the ideas and suggestions coming! Thanks again...

                --Mikhail
              • Cannoneer
                ... I ve been storing garb in unfinished wooden chests for years and never had a problem with the wood doing anything. As far as the bugs go, that s never
                Message 7 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  At 06:45 PM 7/30/2003 -0400, you wrote:
                  >Actually, all fibers should be protected from direct contact with unfinished
                  >wood. The tannins in the wood are acidic by nature and can cause color
                  >changes in natural dyes as well as deterioration of the fibers. Wrap your
                  >garb in old sheets or lengths of muslin wherever it will be in direct
                  >contact with the wood. :)
                  >
                  >Happy garbing,
                  >
                  >Jannifer

                  I've been storing garb in unfinished wooden chests for years and never had
                  a problem with the wood doing anything. As far as the bugs go, that's
                  never been an issue either. All of my garb is wool, linen and leather. I
                  wash the linen, but the wool is only cleaned when something gets
                  spilled. Rainwater and airing keeps it sweet enough. Now, because it is
                  mostly worn to camping events, there is a fairly heavy smoke smell. I
                  believe that is what keeps the bugs away.
                  Hawkyns


                  Roderic Hawkyns
                  Master Gunner

                  Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl

                  Its like I always say, you get more with a kind word and a two-by-four then
                  with just a two-by-four - Marcus Cole
                • Elizabeth Walpole
                  ... this is not period but my grandma has a camphor-wood chest for long term storage which keeps the moths away. Just a suggestion Elizabeth ... Elizabeth
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    >
                    >--Mikhail, pondering making cedar-lined chests for to hold garb...
                    this is not period but my grandma has a camphor-wood chest for long term
                    storage which keeps the moths away.
                    Just a suggestion
                    Elizabeth

                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ----
                    Elizabeth Beaumont
                    MKA:
                    Elizabeth Walpole
                    Politarchopolis, Lochac
                    ewalpole@...

                    People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun
                    is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if
                    there is light from within.
                    Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

                    The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added
                    to the ages of other women.
                    Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib.
                  • sismith42
                    ... we ... Isn t lavender anti-moth? (or is that an old-wive s tale?) I don t know if it was used that way in period, though... Stefania
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > Do we know of 'period' anti-moth practices? Modernly, of course,
                      we
                      > use aromatic cedar and/or mothballs... And (from what I've read

                      Isn't lavender anti-moth? (or is that an old-wive's tale?) I don't
                      know if it was used that way in period, though...

                      Stefania
                    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                      In a message dated 7/30/2003 5:00:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Let s see - the Medieval Home Companion, which is a partial translation of Le Menagier de
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        In a message dated 7/30/2003 5:00:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                        Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:

                        > Do we know of 'period' anti-moth practices? Modernly, of course, we
                        > use aromatic cedar and/or mothballs... And (from what I've read
                        > since I thought of this) "frequent use of woolens and other animal
                        > fiber clothing almost assures no damage from clothes moth larvae"
                        > (OSU Extension Fact Sheet). If "frequent use" doesn't describe most
                        > of our garb, I don't know what does...
                        >

                        Let's see - the Medieval Home Companion, which is a partial translation of Le
                        Menagier de Paris (c. 1390) says:
                        " At suitable times, you and the Beguine have your women air, shake out, and
                        inspect your sheets, blankets, dresses, coats, furs, and such. Be aware, and
                        tell your women, that to protect and take care of your furs and dresses, you
                        should air them often in order to avoid the damage that the larvae of moths
                        can do. Because such vermin breed in the warmer periods of fall and winter and
                        are born in the summer, it is a good idea to put the furs and dresses in the
                        sun when the weather is fair and dry. If a dark damp cloud comes and settles
                        on your dresses and you fold them in that condition, this air wrapped up and
                        folded in your garments will conceal and engender worse vermin than before.
                        Because of this, choose weather that will stay fine and dry; and as soon as you
                        see other, heavy air coming, before it reaches you, have your dresses put under
                        cover and shaken to get rid of the bulk of the dust and then cleaned with a
                        whisk of dry twigs."

                        So the OSU extension sheet is recommending essentially the same thing the
                        householder did to his new young bride 600 years ago...

                        Brangwayna


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Theresa Brooks
                        I am in the process of using scrap fabric to make sachet bags for the Baronial stored cloth items. I am packing them with Lavender and Rosemary. Moths hate
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I am in the process of using scrap fabric to make sachet bags for the Baronial stored cloth items. I am packing them with Lavender and Rosemary.
                          Moths hate lavender and are not fond of rosemary either.
                          Some of the period recipes for med. that I have been researching have included both items in bug repellents. I use lavender myself to prevent grain moths, and pack our winter clothes with it too.
                          There are a few other herbs that will work and leave a nice scent. (I am searching for a scent my Lord agrees with to pack his things with)
                          All in all it sure beats moth balls :) :) :)

                          Isabella


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Michael Suggs
                          To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 2:13 PM
                          Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Another thought...


                          This one would probably be more up Bogdan's alley, in the "period
                          anti-arthropod" category...

                          While sitting here, idly pondering how much I'd rather go to Pennsic
                          than Tuscaloosa, contemplating garb (and, more specifically, garb
                          storage), the thought struck me:

                          Do we know of 'period' anti-moth practices? Modernly, of course, we
                          use aromatic cedar and/or mothballs... And (from what I've read
                          since I thought of this) "frequent use of woolens and other animal
                          fiber clothing almost assures no damage from clothes moth larvae"
                          (OSU Extension Fact Sheet). If "frequent use" doesn't describe most
                          of our garb, I don't know what does...

                          --Mikhail, pondering making cedar-lined chests for to hold garb...


                          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                          ADVERTISEMENT




                          ----------------------------------------------------
                          This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
                          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          authentic_SCA-unsubscribe@egroups.com



                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • ladymorwenna
                          ... The technical term is off-gasing . Unsealed wood releases gases which can yellow fabrics. In fact, almost anything can cause environmental damage to
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            > And I hadn't thought of protecting the cloth from unfinished
                            > wood... Hmmm...
                            >
                            > --Mikhail

                            The technical term is "off-gasing". Unsealed wood releases gases which
                            can yellow fabrics. In fact, almost anything can cause environmental
                            damage to almost anything else. This makes conservationists very
                            paranoid people. : ) Sealing the wood (it might be with polyeurothane,
                            but my conservation manuals are at home) with keep it from off-gasing.
                            That kind of defeats the purpose of having moth-repelent cedar chests.
                            I line my cedar chest with acid-free tissue paper and change it about
                            twice a year. You can also use washed unbleached muslin.

                            --Abigail (Morwenna doesn't know from museum procedures)
                          • Heather Rose Jones
                            ... I ve never read any technical studies of the question, but I _do_ know that when I process dried lavender from my garden, it can drive _me_ out of the
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              > > Do we know of 'period' anti-moth practices? Modernly, of course,
                              >we
                              >> use aromatic cedar and/or mothballs... And (from what I've read
                              >
                              >Isn't lavender anti-moth? (or is that an old-wive's tale?) I don't
                              >know if it was used that way in period, though...
                              >
                              >Stefania

                              I've never read any technical studies of the question, but I _do_
                              know that when I process dried lavender from my garden, it can drive
                              _me_ out of the room. ("It's natural ... it's organic" right? I
                              found myself longing for a laboratory fume hood. That stuff is
                              _strong_ when you're stripping quarts of it off the stems in an
                              enclosed space.)

                              Tangwystyl
                              --
                              *****
                              Heather Rose Jones
                              hrjones@...
                              *****
                            • Jan C. Lane
                              I ve been storing garb in unfinished wooden chests for years and never had a problem with the wood doing anything. This is probably because you wear your
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                "I've been storing garb in unfinished wooden chests for years and never had
                                a problem with the wood doing anything."

                                This is probably because you wear your garb regularly. My recommendations
                                are really for anything that's going to be stored for more than a few
                                months, such as heirloom clothes or quilts. I should have been more
                                specific. :)

                                Happy garbing,

                                Jannifer
                              • Jan C. Lane
                                According to my trusty Jeanne Rose s Modern Herbal (Putnam, 1987).... Insect repellants can be made from almost any strongly aromatic essential oil or herb.
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  According to my trusty "Jeanne Rose's Modern Herbal" (Putnam, 1987)....


                                  "Insect repellants can be made from almost any strongly aromatic essential
                                  oil or herb. The best herbs, however, are Mugwort, Wormwood, Pennyroyal,
                                  Bay, Eucalyptus, Lavender, Rose Geranium, and Thyme." (p 23)

                                  Most of these will grown in a temperate climate--only Bay and Eucalyptus
                                  require warmer winter temps--and Rose Geranium may not have been available
                                  until the Victorians brought it back from Africa.

                                  Tansy works well for ants, which is why it was often planted near the
                                  doorways into a home. Adding Chamomile to aromatic herbs helps against
                                  moths.

                                  "A useful insect repellant for bags, drawers, hangers, suitcases and trunks
                                  is made with the herbs Mugwort, Sage, or Santolina with Thyme oil added."
                                  (p 23)

                                  Peppermint and spearmint are also effective repellants, and "Pennyroyal herb
                                  is especially good for flea control...." (p 23)

                                  If you like, I can also check my Culpepper's herbal. It's late period, but
                                  should still be useful. :)

                                  Happy herbing,

                                  Jannifer
                                • Catelli
                                  Alas, the lavendar makes a pretty good me-repellant, as I have many sneezy &c reactions to it. Chamomile is closely related to ragweed & so should be used with
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Alas, the lavendar makes a pretty good me-repellant, as I have many
                                    sneezy &c reactions to it.

                                    Chamomile is closely related to ragweed & so should be used with
                                    caution--or in a form Not containing its pollen.

                                    Ann in CT
                                    still sewing
                                  • Rebecca Perry
                                    I don t have evidence to support that this combination was used in period as moth repellent, but to the best of my knowledge all of these ingredients were
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Aug 5, 2003
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I don't have evidence to support that this combination was used in period as
                                      moth repellent, but to the best of my knowledge all of these ingredients
                                      were known and used in medieval Europe. This is the ingredients list from a
                                      product called "Moth Away" which I use in storing my fleeces, yarns, and
                                      garb:

                                      Peppermint 39.5%
                                      Rosemary 39.5%
                                      Thyme 19.0%
                                      Cloves 2.0%

                                      It smells really good (to me) and so far *knock on wood* has been very
                                      effective. Of course, m*ths aren't a huge problem out here in the arid
                                      Outlands...

                                      Savina LaBrune
                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Jan C. Lane [mailto:jclane@...]
                                      Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:08 AM
                                      To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Moth Repellant Herbs


                                      According to my trusty "Jeanne Rose's Modern Herbal" (Putnam, 1987)....
                                      *snip*



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Karen
                                      Never let woolen clothes or furs go a sevennight without being brushed or shaken, for moths be always ready to alight in them and engender; so always keep an
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Aug 6, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        "Never let woolen clothes or furs go a sevennight without being brushed
                                        or shaken, for moths be always ready to alight in them and engender; so
                                        always keep an eye on drapery and skinnery."
                                        (John Russell's Book of Nurture, MS. Harl. 4011, ca. 1460)


                                        Karen
                                      • aheilvei
                                        ... brushed ... engender; so ... Very cool quote Karen. Thanks. Smiles, Despina
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Aug 6, 2003
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          > "Never let woolen clothes or furs go a sevennight without being
                                          brushed
                                          > or shaken, for moths be always ready to alight in them and
                                          engender; so
                                          > always keep an eye on drapery and skinnery."
                                          > (John Russell's Book of Nurture, MS. Harl. 4011, ca. 1460)


                                          Very cool quote Karen. Thanks.

                                          Smiles,
                                          Despina
                                        • Karen
                                          I know there are additional references to deterring moths, and I m trying to remember em. Le Menagier de Paris has a fairly long bit on dreadful vermin and
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Aug 6, 2003
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            I know there are additional references to deterring moths, and I'm
                                            trying to remember 'em.


                                            Le Menagier de Paris has a fairly long bit on dreadful vermin and how
                                            to avoid them; he advises that bedlinens and bedding be aired to deter
                                            moths, fleas, etc. (On the other hand, he also suggests drying
                                            Proven´┐Żal roses and spreading them in one's clothes; this seems to be
                                            more for a scent rather than to avoid vermin.)


                                            Lines 565-568 of the Wife of Bath's Prologue go thusly:

                                            And wered upon my gaye scarlet gytes.
                                            Thise wormes ne thise motthes, ne thise mytes,
                                            Upon my peril, frete hem never a deel;
                                            And wostow why? for they were used weel!


                                            Karen
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.