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food coloring

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  • Carolin
    Bogdan? Anyone? I have this crazy idea of actually making some marzipan at Pennsic. I have made marzipan before and I just love playing with it and ... well...
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 28, 2003
      Bogdan? Anyone? I have this crazy idea of actually making some
      marzipan at Pennsic. I have made marzipan before and I just love
      playing with it and ... well... eating it ;). Now... I was thinking
      of making some nice sculptures and such... but they require color! I
      guess food colorings were used a lot in period and I can remember
      some like saffron for yellow... but that's sort of where it also
      ends. Spinach juice for green? Beets for red? Cinnamon? For those I
      know that they work.. but how period are they? And is there any
      period blue? Only thing that springs to mind here are blueberries...
      but the blueberries I have seen in the States so far are just not
      really blue. Anyone? Any ideas? Or sources? Or anything? Thanks :)

      Goal No. 1 for this Pennsic: learn how to brocade
      Goal No. 2: prepare lots of period food
      --
      Yours,
      Carolin

      ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
      Carolin vom Adlersberg Barony of Storvik, Atlantia
      http://www.fairyforest.org/sca
    • Heather Rose Jones
      ... Most fruits that one thinks of as blue carry that color only as a bloom (a sort of dust) on the exterior of the skin. Blueberry bloom is actually
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 29, 2003
        At 8:20 PM -0400 7/28/03, Carolin wrote:
        >Bogdan? Anyone? I have this crazy idea of actually making some
        >marzipan at Pennsic. I have made marzipan before and I just love
        >playing with it and ... well... eating it ;). Now... I was thinking
        >of making some nice sculptures and such... but they require color! I
        >guess food colorings were used a lot in period and I can remember
        >some like saffron for yellow... but that's sort of where it also
        >ends. Spinach juice for green? Beets for red? Cinnamon? For those I
        >know that they work.. but how period are they? And is there any
        >period blue? Only thing that springs to mind here are blueberries...
        >but the blueberries I have seen in the States so far are just not
        >really blue. Anyone? Any ideas? Or sources? Or anything? Thanks :)

        Most fruits that one thinks of as "blue" carry that color only as a
        "bloom" (a sort of dust) on the exterior of the skin. Blueberry
        "bloom" is actually blue, but it doesn't carry through to the juicy
        parts.

        The only type of food product (available in medieval Europe) that
        I've found to produce a good, "real" blue is when you take the
        red-purple coloring of certain foods (I know red cabbage works, I
        _think_ blueberries and beets would work too) and make the solution
        significantly alkaline. (There's this fascinating phenomenon that
        happens when I make my favorite sour cabbage soup, where I've cooked
        up the broth and the red cabbage, and when it cools it tends to be
        somewhat alkaline and gets this blue shade, but then when I add the
        vinegar for the "sour" part of "sour cabbage soup", it instantly
        turns deep red-purple instead.)

        The problem is, I've never seen any references in period cookbooks
        that would suggest that this phenomenon was used for a blue coloring
        at that time. For this reason, I've never really experimented with
        it much -- just because they "could" doesn't mean they did, and I'd
        rather stick to the colors I have some evidence for.

        Tangwystyl
        --
        *****
        Heather Rose Jones
        hrjones@...
        *****
      • aheilvei
        I forwarded your question to Bogdan and he ll probably get to it before the end of the day tomorrow. I can tell you that he has used parsley juice, cinnamon,
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 29, 2003
          I forwarded your question to Bogdan and he'll probably get to it
          before the end of the day tomorrow. I can tell you that he has used
          parsley juice, cinnamon, and saffron as period colorants to his
          marzipan. I know that he has also used merlot wine (makes a great
          mushroom color.

          As to the question of blue - they did use pigments in sugarpaste to
          do coloring so if you can get your hands on a blue ochre, for
          instance, you would still be period and food safe. Be careful using
          pigments though so that you don't use any that aren't ingestible.

          Smiles,
          Despina de la really busy at work lately, sorry guys
        • Jan Ward
          Somewhere I remember reading using turnsole for blue in period. Don t remember the instructions for using or the book it came from either. Edwinna
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 29, 2003
            Somewhere I remember reading using turnsole for blue
            in period. Don't remember the instructions for using
            or the book it came from either.
            Edwinna

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          • Lady_Lark_Azure
            Hello all, I am looking for some period ways to color some foods for a 14th c. French and German feast. I ve got my purple, yellow and green, but I also need
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
              Hello all,

              I am looking for some period ways to color some foods for a 14th c.
              French and German feast. I've got my purple, yellow and green, but I
              also need black and red. Anyone know what I can use? I'm extracting
              the dyes into water and making them into a simple syrup to paint on
              marzipan as decoration.

              Thanks,
              Isabeau
            • kittencat3@aol.com
              Red - I d try pomegranate juice or cochineal if you can get it (especially cochineal, which is very very bright and is used as a modern food coloring in
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
                Red - I'd try pomegranate juice or cochineal if you can get it (especially cochineal, which is very very bright and is used as a modern food coloring in cranberry juice). Black - walnut shells.

                Good luck!

                Sarah Davies
              • Adele de Maisieres
                ... For red, you can use a little beetroot juice plus a little saffron or saunders to make it less pink. -- Adele de Maisieres ... Quot homines, tot
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
                  Lady_Lark_Azure wrote:

                  >Hello all,
                  >
                  >I am looking for some period ways to color some foods for a 14th c.
                  >French and German feast. I've got my purple, yellow and green, but I
                  >also need black and red. Anyone know what I can use? I'm extracting
                  >the dyes into water and making them into a simple syrup to paint on
                  >marzipan as decoration.
                  >
                  >

                  For red, you can use a little beetroot juice plus a little saffron or
                  saunders to make it less pink.

                  --
                  Adele de Maisieres

                  -----------------------------
                  Quot homines, tot sententiae.
                  -----------------------------
                • Catalin Zoldszem
                  Yellow -saffron ( period) Green -parsley (period) Red- Sauders (period) Blue-purple plums (maybe if you toned it down) Black- a mixture of all of the above
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
                    Yellow -saffron ( period)
                    Green -parsley (period)
                    Red- Sauders (period)
                    Blue-purple plums (maybe if you toned it down)
                    Black- a mixture of all of the above
                    Purple- Sauders and purple plums
                    Orange- saffron and parsley

                    Found on an email discussion posted at http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD/p-fd-coloring-msg.html . I didn't read through the whole thing, it's pretty long. But it may help. I found that by just putting 'period food coloring' into Google.

                    Cat


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Nibuca
                    ... This last September I did my first feast. The theme of the feast was Six colors (it was for Mists Bardic and the Bard is allowed to wear six colors).
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
                      Isabeau said:
                      > I am looking for some period ways to color some
                      > foods for a 14th c. French and German feast. I've
                      > got my purple, yellow and green, but I also need
                      > black and red. Anyone know what I can use? I'm
                      > extracting the dyes into water and making them into
                      > a simple syrup to paint on marzipan as decoration.

                      This last September I did my first feast. The theme
                      of the feast was "Six colors" (it was for Mists Bardic
                      and the Bard is allowed to wear six colors).
                      Primarily my colors came out in sauces for chicken and
                      in many colored leach (milk jello).

                      Sauces:
                      Brown - Cameline
                      Yellow - Citrus suace
                      blue/red - Cerulean Blue Sauce
                      Black - black pepper sauce
                      White - Cow's Milk Jance
                      Green - Green Garlic Sauce

                      For the leach I did one with natural colors/sugar and
                      one with food coloring/splenda (for the
                      diabetic/atkins folks).

                      Natural colored: Parsley water(green), Saffron
                      (yellow), Blackberry juice (reddish)

                      We also added edible flower petals to the meal to add
                      color.

                      Bardic menu with recipes:
                      http://www.fibergeek.com/mistsbardicxxxix/

                      In my research I found that saunders were used a lot
                      for red coloring and I think turnsole for black. Good
                      luck.

                      Lady Sylvie la chardonni�re
                      West Kingdom
                    • Lady_Lark_Azure
                      Well, I ve managed to get some decent colors. I may have to head to a health food store for walnuts in the shell--they re more of a fall thing in grocery
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
                        Well, I've managed to get some decent colors. I may have to head to
                        a health food store for walnuts in the shell--they're more of a fall
                        thing in grocery stores. I'll probably reduce the pomegranate juice
                        to get a darker color, but the saffron looked great.

                        Anyone have any suggestions for how to get them into something I can
                        use as a base for painting? We're hoping to use them to paint
                        marzipan. I tried incorporating them into a simple syrup, but it
                        comes out like a glaze and is much too transparent.

                        I was thinking of trying egg whites, but I'm concerned about
                        spoilage. Suggestion would be appreciated.

                        Isabeau
                      • Adele de Maisieres
                        ... Egg white is fine for painting marzipan, actually. It dries rapidly, and there s no real danger of completely dry egg white spoiling. Another option would
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
                          Lady_Lark_Azure wrote:

                          >Well, I've managed to get some decent colors. I may have to head to
                          >a health food store for walnuts in the shell--they're more of a fall
                          >thing in grocery stores. I'll probably reduce the pomegranate juice
                          >to get a darker color, but the saffron looked great.
                          >
                          >Anyone have any suggestions for how to get them into something I can
                          >use as a base for painting? We're hoping to use them to paint
                          >marzipan. I tried incorporating them into a simple syrup, but it
                          >comes out like a glaze and is much too transparent.
                          >
                          >I was thinking of trying egg whites, but I'm concerned about
                          >spoilage. Suggestion would be appreciated.
                          >
                          >

                          Egg white is fine for painting marzipan, actually. It dries rapidly,
                          and there's no real danger of completely dry egg white spoiling.
                          Another option would be gum arabic, but I don't know much about using it.

                          --
                          Adele de Maisieres

                          -----------------------------
                          Quot homines, tot sententiae.
                          -----------------------------
                        • Elsa Cumming
                          The egg white will work fine. I use it every year at Christmas to paint mundane cookies. I HATE frosted cookies, but like them colored. I have mailed some that
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
                            The egg white will work fine. I use it every year at Christmas to paint mundane cookies. I HATE frosted cookies, but like them colored. I have mailed some that took a few weeks to get to where they were going and they were fine when eaten.

                            Good luck.

                            Take photos of your finished product if you can and post them.

                            Elsa


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                          • SilverLoon2001@aol.com
                            ... Stabilised egg whites can be purchased in a box at the grocery. I use them for royal icing. Once opened you might have to keep them refrigerated
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 3, 2005
                              >I was thinking of trying egg whites, but I'm concerned about
                              >spoilage. Suggestion would be appreciated.

                              Stabilised egg whites can be purchased in a box at the grocery. I use them
                              for royal icing. Once opened you might have to keep them refrigerated
                              (different brands have different instructions).

                              They are found with the baking supplies at my local store.

                              ~ Hedewigis.


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • giraude@wedcraft.com
                              ... I ve heard of walnut hulls being used as a dye, but not walnut shells...or is it the walnuts themselves you plan to use? Giraude (who spend many a fall day
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 3, 2005
                                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Lady_Lark_Azure"
                                <jenniferanne21@n...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Well, I've managed to get some decent colors. I may have to head to
                                > a health food store for walnuts in the shell--they're more of a fall
                                > thing in grocery stores.

                                I've heard of walnut hulls being used as a dye, but not walnut
                                shells...or is it the walnuts themselves you plan to use?

                                Giraude (who spend many a fall day in childhood staining her hands
                                rolling hulls off of black walnuts)
                              • acboysen@aol.com
                                yeah, i dont think the shells is the part with the dye. the hull, from when it s on the tree, turns things black from the juice. if i remember correctly, that
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 3, 2005
                                  yeah, i dont think the shells is the part with the dye. the hull, from when
                                  it's on the tree, turns things black from the juice. if i remember correctly,
                                  that is...



                                  amelia
                                  (who managed to avoid spending days in childhood staining hands, and noticed
                                  the other kids that did.)


                                  --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Lady_Lark_Azure"
                                  <jenniferanne21@n...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Well, I've managed to get some decent colors. I may have to head to
                                  > a health food store for walnuts in the shell--they're more of a fall
                                  > thing in grocery stores.

                                  I've heard of walnut hulls being used as a dye, but not walnut
                                  shells...or is it the walnuts themselves you plan to use?

                                  Giraude (who spend many a fall day in childhood staining her hands
                                  rolling hulls off of black walnuts)





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Huette von Ahrens
                                  ... Actually, cochineal is not used in cranberry juice. It is used in pink grapefruit juice made by Ocean Spray, which is probably where the confusion lies. If
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Mar 3, 2005
                                    > Message: 10
                                    > Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 16:29:01 -0500
                                    > From: kittencat3@...
                                    > Subject: Re: food coloring
                                    >
                                    > Red - I'd try pomegranate juice or cochineal if you
                                    > can get it (especially cochineal, which is very very
                                    > bright and is used as a modern food coloring in
                                    > cranberry juice). Black - walnut shells.
                                    >
                                    > Good luck!
                                    >
                                    > Sarah Davies

                                    Actually, cochineal is not used in cranberry juice.
                                    It is used in pink grapefruit juice made by
                                    Ocean Spray, which is probably where the confusion
                                    lies.

                                    If you are planning on using cochineal in food,
                                    please let your diners know this, as it is a
                                    red coloring made from the Cochineal Insect.
                                    There are a lot of people, both vegetarians and
                                    non-vegetarians who have a problem with using this
                                    source for red coloring.

                                    Huette




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