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Re: Religion & the SCA--was Lent

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  • Chris Laning
    ... Thank you for putting that so well! Generally I ve encountered far more acceptance as a practicing Christian[1] in the SCA than in some supposedly liberal
    Message 1 of 364 , Jun 30, 2003
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      At 1:55 PM -0800 6/30/03, Ii Saburou wrote:
      >People should have no problem with someone portraying their persona's
      >religion. However, using religion as an excuse to do something you
      >otherwise shouldn't, or forcing it on other people, is more of a problem.
      >
      >A good friend of mine goes around as a Buddhist monk. I've known others
      >to do similar religious personae without much issue. I've also seen a
      >woman dressed up as a cardinal, and her attitude was inappropriate.
      >Likewise, I've seen people styling themselves 'Father So-and-So' with a
      >completely irreverent air.
      >
      >Depending on how it is done, I don't mind--I actually enjoy it when it is
      >done well. When walking in Japanese garb you may sometimes see me
      >chanting the "Namu Amida...", and I may pepper my phrases in Western garb
      >with bits about the Pope or God. However, it is the reverence with which
      >it is done.
      >
      >Many people don't realize that certain churches see the ordination to
      >become a bishop as a mark upon the soul. There's a fine line between
      >being funny and being disrespectful.

      Thank you for putting that so well!

      Generally I've encountered far more acceptance as a practicing
      Christian[1] in the SCA than in some supposedly liberal contexts
      <sigh>. If anything, people around here seem to bend over backwards
      to be tolerant -- you should have seen the flap on our Kingdom
      mailing list when someone used the signature line: "Christians....
      can't live with 'em, can't feed 'em to the lions anymore." Everyone
      was tying themselves in knots worrying that someone might have been
      offended. (I certainly wasn't, and I repeated it to a friend of mine
      who's as fundamentalist as they come, and he thought it was hilarious
      too. Unfortunately no one I've asked has been able to come up with a
      short and snappy version in Latin....)

      I have no complaints whatever when I see people in the SCA either
      expressing their own beliefs by what they do or refrain from doing,
      or trying out religious practices to see what they feel like or to
      act in more authentic ways.

      I too find it irritating, though, to see people who want to portray
      drunken friars, libertine nuns, greedy priests et cetera. I think
      what annoys me most about it is that they are acting as though there
      are no actual Christians around to be possibly offended by it.
      Hellooooooo!?!!?? Anyone may be a little offensive or sarcastic at
      times in private -- but it's REALLY offensive to do it in front of
      people who take those beliefs seriously.

      I've also noticed the preponderance of modern pagan symbols offered
      by merchants, but lately when I've mentioned that I'm looking for
      period crosses, a common reply is, "You know, I've had several
      requests for crosses lately...."

      P.S. Anyone interested in historical rosaries and paternosters is
      welcome at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Paternosters And no
      affiliation, but if anyone's looking for some nice crosses that are
      at least peri-oid, take a look at http://www.rosaryworkshop.com

      --
      _________________________________________________________
      O (Lady) Christian de Holacombe
      | Chris Laning <claning@...>
      + Shire of Windy Meads - Davis, California
      _________________________________________________________

      [1] (And no, I didn't choose my SCA name by accident -- though I
      mostly chose it because it's a very typical woman's name from
      13th-16th-century England <g>. I've had exactly one person comment on
      it in nine years, and that was a joke -- I introduced myself at a
      meeting as "Hello, I'm Christian" and the joking response was "We
      don't care what your religion is, what's your name?")
    • hasoferet@aol.com
      In a message dated 7/18/2003 10:23:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Similar situations also occur where communities kept from blending for various reasons
      Message 364 of 364 , Jul 18, 2003
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        In a message dated 7/18/2003 10:23:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, gedney1@... writes:


        The place where culture mixing occurs is in expatriot communities, such as
        Chinatown, or the Hasidic Communities of Brooklyn, ot in period examples,
        the Viking community of Dublin, and the community of flemish worsted weavers
        of 1570's Norwich, as examples. In those communities there would be strong
        cultural reinforcement of the differences from the main culture, and some of
        the less extreme differences would get preserved (though some would be
        quickly lost, especially if they are illegal in the host culture).



        Similar situations also occur where communities kept from blending for various reasons nevertheless have to live alongside one another--Spain produces a lot of these, broken down along religous lines, and there are patterns that develop in areas where people are moving around a lot--well-travelled trade routes open some patterns. And certain cities--late-period Istanbul, fr'example.


        It is much harder to posit a hypothetical mixed culture community, than and
        individual, since communities would plainly have had more of an impact on a
        historical period and place than an individual. But ths is the most likely
        histoical fashion in which a person with mixed cultures would present.


        Why 'posit' at all? We have lots that actually happened to pick from.



        An individual that travels widely, and is born of parents that travelled
        widely, as a source for a cultural blending is simply unlikely, and not
        believable. the few examples that we have are, in effect exceptions that
        prove the rule, since such persons quickly rose to the level of scandal or
        legend .


        Or are just odd blips...my Tunisian guy is a very small scandal, contained in a series of angry family letters that would have vanished from history if the Cairo Geniza had not been preserved.


        and this is entirely my point. These cultural collisions were not the result
        of individual persons. Individuals had almost no impact on the culture to
        which they were transplanted. Impaction required a transplantation of enough
        individuals to generate a separate subculture within the host culture.


        Not arguing with you there, but cultures are made up of individuals, and and I can only 'be' one person at a time in the SCA.

        I think we're agreeing, actually.



        > (I'm guilty too.) But more often, someone wouldn't break
        > down their
        > family to component cultures, because everyone in Sicily has a
        > family like this.
        >

        also true..
        A Luvbovitcher Jew in Brooklyn would not describe themselves as a
        Talmudic-Polish-Germannic-Hebrew-American-Zionist-Gemcutter. But we see this
        sort of thing in the SCA all the time, with such Scabominations as a
        Polish-Tartar-Celto-Pagan-Gypsy-working-as-a-Barbary-Pirate-wench.


        Well yes, but the first makes sense, and can be summed up in a single identity, while the latter requires explanation, 'cause it just don't happen.


        Which is all tyhat I was going after.
        Mixed cultures expressed as individuals a historical mixed cultural context,
        yes.
        Mixed cultures as an individual using a mishmash of places (and times!) with
        no connection to any likely (or even possible) historical context, no.


        Uh yeah. What you said.

        Raquel filla Bonastruch, not really a scandal, except to her brother Ysaac, who wishes she would get married again and stop hanging around the house inciting his daughters to sass him, and taking Vives' side when he's been gambling (and losing) again.
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