Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

to piece or not to piece

Expand Messages
  • azilisarmor
    There is an expression, cut it off twice and it was still too short...(Go get the welder.) I think I may have just done that with my 9th cen. Frankish
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 1, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      There is an expression, "cut it off twice and it was still too
      short...(Go get the welder.)" I think I may have just done that
      with my 9th cen. Frankish overdress. Now I'm faced with a
      decision: should I
      (a) live with a hem that is about 6 inches above the ankle, or
      (b) attach trim with a bit more fabric below, thereby extending
      to ankle length, or
      (c) piece on the additional 6 inches?
      Fabric is a coarse tabby-esque weave which should be easy to match
      up thread-by-thread, but I doubt the seam would be invisible. I
      recall a discussion on piecing on the list a few months ago, but I
      believe it related to later period?
      The design I'm after is from a Charles the Bald Bible page, showing
      four Frankish ladies. Although the hems of their under dresses are
      visible, the overdress length seems to be longer that what I've got.
      On a related note, does anyone know what those strips of trim
      are one sees on thigh area of Frankish gowns? I've only encountered
      them twice, once on what looks like a Victorian rendition of a
      Grande Dame of the period and the other on each of four women
      representing the four states of the Holy Roman Empire (Otto the nth
      Bible) and in the latter case I'm wondering if they represent some
      sort of fealty thingy, since they don't seem to have any practical
      use whatsoever on the garments.
      Thanks for any/all info.
      Deroch
    • demontsegur
      ... My personal philosophy is that when such a mistake is made, there is no shame in piecing on the extra fabric required to complete the overall
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 1, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "azilisarmor" <alsnchap@t...>
        wrote:
        > should I
        > (a) live with a hem that is about 6 inches above the ankle, or
        > (b) attach trim with a bit more fabric below, thereby extending
        > to ankle length, or
        > (c) piece on the additional 6 inches?

        My personal philosophy is that when such a mistake is made, there is
        no shame in piecing on the extra fabric required to complete the
        overall shape/silhouette/fit of the garment. It feels like a lesser
        sin to live with the inadvertent piecing than it is to feel weird
        with something that's missing, like your 6 inches of length at the
        bottom of the garment.

        Only recently I had to make a weird gore out of one regular and one
        irregular piece to complete a gown's skirt. I was short on fabric
        and it was the only way to give the skirt the minimal fullness
        required for its silhouette. When I was finished I was left with a
        literal handful of scraps -- that's how creative I had to get. It's
        not much of a stretch to imagine that people made garments using
        creative piecing techniques throughout our period, given the
        relative value of cloth and the sweat equity in making it.... and
        the human error factor, which, AFAIK, hasn't changed one whit from
        period to present. ;^P

        > On a related note, does anyone know what those strips of trim
        > are one sees on thigh area of Frankish gowns?

        I wish I could help with this question, but alas, I don't have the
        info.

        Good luck,
        Marcele
      • Tiffany Brown / Lady Teffania Tukerton
        ... I ve seen several 12th century pictures in the anglo saxon style with a strip of trim between two folds at the calf level. I ve been assuming that these
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 10, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          > > On a related note, does anyone know what those strips of trim
          > > are one sees on thigh area of Frankish gowns?

          I've seen several 12th century pictures in the anglo saxon style with
          a strip of trim between two folds at the calf level.

          I've been assuming that these are just extra decorative elements
          unique to the anglo-saxon artistic style. Why
          - it is just too silly to have a small (about 10cm wide) piece of
          trim here, and not around the whole dress
          - Even if it was there, it ends to conveniently at the places where
          the dress folds in whatever particular posture the person is in.
          - they look very decorative - I remember one done in white on a
          coloured dress. This one was more spiral (slightly less defined as a
          band). Is this circumstance it looked very much like some of the
          decorative elements on the side of the manuscript. This made me
          think the more band like ones were also decoration.
          -they could represent additional decoration that hte artist finds too
          difficult to draw in all of.

          Of course there are possible alternate explainations- eg it's a
          pouch, but I can't find one that seems likely yet.

          I'd love a real answer if anyone knows, of had a friendly art
          historian they can ask.

          Teffania Tuckerton
          Stormhold, Lochac(that's Melbourne, Australia), but going to pennsic
          this year(yay!!)
        • Heather Rose Jones
          ... I m not entirely sure if this is the sort of thing you re describing, but there is a decoration style on some surviving ecclesiastical garments of around
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 11, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            At 5:47 AM +0000 6/11/03, Tiffany Brown / Lady Teffania Tukerton wrote:
            > > > On a related note, does anyone know what those strips of trim
            >> > are one sees on thigh area of Frankish gowns? 
            >
            >I've seen several 12th century pictures in the anglo saxon style with
            >a strip of trim between two folds at the calf level.
            >
            >I've been assuming that these are just extra decorative elements
            >unique to the anglo-saxon artistic style. Why
            >- it is just too silly to have a small (about 10cm wide) piece of
            >trim here, and not around the whole dress
            >- Even if it was there, it ends to conveniently at the places where
            >the dress folds in whatever particular posture the person is in.
            >- they look very decorative - I remember one done in white on a
            >coloured dress. This one was more spiral (slightly less defined as a
            >band). Is this circumstance it looked very much like some of the
            >decorative elements on the side of the manuscript. This made me
            >think the more band like ones were also decoration.
            >-they could represent additional decoration that hte artist finds too
            >difficult to draw in all of.

            I'm not entirely sure if this is the sort of thing you're describing,
            but there is a decoration style on some surviving ecclesiastical
            garments of around the 12-13th century where there is a band of
            embroidered decoration at the center front of the hem that only
            extends across part of the front. (My impression is that if you
            dropped imaginary lines down where clavii would have been, the band
            runs between those two lines.)

            I can think of two possible reasons for this. One would be
            conservation of handwork -- adding a highly-decorated band only at
            the front where it would be visible when wearing a cope. The other
            possible explanation is that it's some relic of a decorative scheme
            surviving from when clavii _were_ part of the decoration scheme, and
            it survived when they didn't. (You can find Coptic tunics that
            combine clavii with horizontal decorative bands that run only between
            the clavii, so this isn't entirely handwaving.)

            I can get specific cites of garments with this type of decoration if
            you like -- that information isn't in my database and I don't want to
            trust my memory.

            Tangwystyl
            --
            *****
            Heather Rose Jones
            hrjones@...
            *****
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.