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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: hoop skirt storage

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  • Arianne de Chateaumichel
    ... string cuts into the flesh of my waist fiercely after a full day of wearing it. My corset does not have waist tabs, which I m sure would make a huge
    Message 1 of 15 , May 1, 2003
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      Isobel wrote:

      > ... I do have one complaint about the skirt however. It is a drawstring waist, and the
      string cuts into the flesh of my waist fiercely after a full day of wearing it. My corset does
      not have waist tabs, which I'm sure would make a huge difference. Until I can replace
      the corset is there anything I can do to make wearing my hoop skirt less painful?
      thanks again,

      From what I understand (and it's not a period I've done much research on), tabs were
      the last step in the construction of a corset, added on after everything else was done.
      So your best (and easiest) fix would be to add tabs to your corset. Replacing the
      drawstring with a wider one might fix the problem, but it also might just roll up and be
      more annoying.


      Your Servant,
      Lady Arianne de Chateaumichel

      Shire of Starhaven,
      Kingdom of Trimaris

      On the web at <http://www.chateau-michel.org>
    • Ariane Helou
      ... Actually, I ve learned just the opposite...(even though it is a period I ve done much research on in other topics, clothing is an area I ve only just
      Message 2 of 15 , May 1, 2003
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        Arianne wrote:
        > From what I understand (and it's not a period I've done much research
        > on), tabs were
        >the last step in the construction of a corset, added on after everything
        >else was done.
        >So your best (and easiest) fix would be to add tabs to your
        >corset. Replacing the
        >drawstring with a wider one might fix the problem, but it also might just
        >roll up and be
        >more annoying.

        Actually, I've learned just the opposite...(even though it is a period I've
        done much research on in other topics, clothing is an area I've only just
        barely started to explore, and in the case of the corset I'm just passing
        on what I've heard from other people...so if I'm wrong feel free to correct
        me). Apparently the boning usually extended down into the tabs - which
        makes sense, as far as relieving pressure on the waist, because even if you
        take the corset and stick the tags on the end, there's still going to be
        the seam around the waist where it digs in. With the boned tabs, it's all
        in one piece, so you get a smoother waist line (I imagine) with a much less
        pronounced bend or crease where it might dig in uncomfortably. Drea Leed's
        webpage has instructions for making that kind of corset...I'm working on
        one now, actually. It's a great deal less difficult than I had feared.
        :-) I'll be wearing it next weekend, so we'll see how much of an
        improvement it is on my first (tabless, waist-pinching) corset...


        Vittoria
      • Sarah de Lorriane
        ... You re both right. ;) We have precisely two extant corsets from the whole of the 16th century (really, one that s accuritely dated to the latter 1590 s
        Message 3 of 15 , May 1, 2003
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          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Ariane Helou <ahelou@u...> wrote:
          > Arianne wrote:
          > > From what I understand (and it's not a period I've done much research
          > > on), tabs were
          > >the last step in the construction of a corset, added on after everything
          > >else was done.
          > >So your best (and easiest) fix would be to add tabs to your
          > >corset. Replacing the
          > >drawstring with a wider one might fix the problem, but it also might just
          > >roll up and be
          > >more annoying.
          >
          > Actually, I've learned just the opposite...(even though it is a period I've
          > done much research on in other topics, clothing is an area I've only just
          > barely started to explore, and in the case of the corset I'm just passing
          > on what I've heard from other people...so if I'm wrong feel free to correct
          > me). Apparently the boning usually extended down into the tabs - which
          > makes sense, as far as relieving pressure on the waist, because even if you
          > take the corset and stick the tags on the end, there's still going to be
          > the seam around the waist where it digs in. With the boned tabs, it's all
          > in one piece, so you get a smoother waist line (I imagine) with a much less
          > pronounced bend or crease where it might dig in uncomfortably. Drea Leed's
          > webpage has instructions for making that kind of corset...I'm working on
          > one now, actually. It's a great deal less difficult than I had feared.
          > :-) I'll be wearing it next weekend, so we'll see how much of an
          > improvement it is on my first (tabless, waist-pinching) corset...

          You're both right. ;)

          We have precisely two extant corsets from the whole of the 16th century (really, one
          that's accuritely dated to the latter 1590's and another that's estimated to be
          somewhere between 1590-1620, depending on who you trust). The more accuritely
          dated of the two corsets, Pfalzgrafin Dorothea Sabina's, was placed in the grave in
          1598, and it has the tabs added on after the corset body was boned (Hunnisett calls
          them "tassets"). Queen Elizabeth I's effigy corset, which may or may not be pre-1600
          (Arnold seems fairly confident that it's original, even though the rest of the
          undergarments displayed on the effigy were replaced sometime in the 18th century)
          has boned tabs. Either way, neither is 100% conclusive evidence that one method was
          favored over the other, becuase we haven't got any other extant corsets to compare
          with these two (and then there's the added issue with regional differences... One
          corset is German, the other is English).

          Another added quirk is that while the effigy corset bears a striking resemblence to
          Elizabeth Vernon's undies in her portrait painted c. 1600 (http://
          www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/htm/gallery2/paintings/countessofsoton.htm) as far as
          shape goes, it appears Vernon's corset has tassets, not boned tabs.

          The point is that both versions are assumed correct for the extreme latter years of the
          16th century until proven otherwise. :)

          Sarah
        • loreleimorte@aol.com
          In a message dated 5/1/2003 4:22:23 PM Central Standard Time, ... Why we need to start diggin up dead people. SOMEBODY must be wearing a corset that survived
          Message 4 of 15 , May 1, 2003
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            In a message dated 5/1/2003 4:22:23 PM Central Standard Time, lithiate@... writes:

            We have precisely two extant corsets from the whole of the 16th century (really, one
            that's accuritely dated to the latter 1590's and another that's estimated to be
            somewhere between 1590-1620, depending on who you trust).


            Why we need to start diggin up dead people. SOMEBODY must be wearing a corset that survived nasty dead people ickiness. Get me a shovel, I'll do it.

            Sarra Wryght
            http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/
          • sismith42
            ... wearing a corset ... it. funny you should mention this... last night, I saw a book that basically took people from an Italian Crypt (monks & noblity,
            Message 5 of 15 , May 2, 2003
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              > Why we need to start diggin up dead people. SOMEBODY must be
              wearing a corset
              > that survived nasty dead people ickiness. Get me a shovel, I'll do
              it.

              funny you should mention this... last night, I saw a book that
              basically took people from an Italian Crypt (monks & noblity, burried
              from the 15th century to the early 20th..), and wired them up
              as "living dead". All senses of desecration and lack of respect for
              the earthly remains of somebody's ancestors aside, this book didn't
              seem to have many bodies displayed from the 15th or 16th centuries*
              :( Some interesting 19th century costumes were preseted, though.

              Stefania

              *as far as I could tell. the guys wraped in cloth could have been
              from anytime, but I doubt people wore what basically ammounted to a
              sheet wraped around, holding the arms & legs together...
            • Manly Summerfield
              ... Hi! Are you talking about the Palermo Mummies? If so Id love to know what book you found. Did it have good photos? I love costumes, I love mummies and
              Message 6 of 15 , May 2, 2003
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                > funny you should mention this... last night, I saw a book that
                > basically took people from an Italian Crypt (monks & noblity, burried
                > from the 15th century to the early 20th..), and wired them up
                > as "living dead". All senses of desecration and lack of respect for
                > the earthly remains of somebody's ancestors aside, this book didn't
                > seem to have many bodies displayed from the 15th or 16th centuries*
                > :( Some interesting 19th century costumes were preseted, though.
                >
                > Stefania

                Hi! Are you talking about the Palermo Mummies? If so Id love to know what
                book you found. Did it have good photos? I love costumes, I love mummies and
                these particular mummies are extra fasinating. The monestary started
                excepting regular people to be mummified in 1599 and they closed it in 1920.
                So with the 1599 . . Thats right darn at the end of our period so there has
                to be SOMEONE in that tomb we could look at.

                Muirgheal
              • sismith42
                ... know what ... mummies and ... in 1920. ... there has ... Hi Muirgheal, I don;t remember where the mummies came from, but will get that info (plus pertinant
                Message 7 of 15 , May 2, 2003
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                  > Hi! Are you talking about the Palermo Mummies? If so Id love to
                  know what
                  > book you found. Did it have good photos? I love costumes, I love
                  mummies and
                  > these particular mummies are extra fasinating. The monestary started
                  > excepting regular people to be mummified in 1599 and they closed it
                  in 1920.
                  > So with the 1599 . . Thats right darn at the end of our period so
                  there has
                  > to be SOMEONE in that tomb we could look at.
                  >
                  > Muirgheal

                  Hi Muirgheal,
                  I don;t remember where the mummies came from, but will get that
                  info (plus pertinant bibliographical info) when I'm downtown this
                  weekend...

                  Stefania
                • ladymorwenna
                  ... The current issue of Archaeology magazine has an article on the Palermo mummies. There s an abstract and further reading on-line.
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 2, 2003
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                    > Hi! Are you talking about the Palermo Mummies? If so Id love to know
                    > what book you found. Did it have good photos? I love costumes, I
                    > love mummies and these particular mummies are extra fasinating. The
                    > monestary started excepting regular people to be mummified in 1599
                    > and they closed it in 1920. So with the 1599 . . Thats right darn at
                    > the end of our period so there has to be SOMEONE in that tomb we
                    > could look at.
                    >
                    > Muirgheal

                    The current issue of Archaeology magazine has an article on the
                    Palermo mummies. There's an abstract and further reading on-line.
                    http://www.archaeology.org/magazine.php?page=0305/abstracts/palermo

                    --Morwenna
                  • hasoferet@aol.com
                    In a message dated 5/2/2003 3:03:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Uhhh...I m aware that there are European churches where the dead are displayed decoratively,
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 2, 2003
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                      In a message dated 5/2/2003 3:03:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, sismith42@... writes:


                      funny you should mention this... last night, I saw a book that
                      basically took people from an Italian Crypt (monks & noblity, burried
                      from the 15th century to the early 20th..), and wired them up
                      as "living dead".  All senses of desecration and lack of respect for
                      the earthly remains of somebody's ancestors aside, this book didn't
                      seem to have many bodies displayed from the 15th or 16th centuries*
                      :( Some interesting 19th century costumes were preseted, though. 

                      Stefania

                      *as far as I could tell.  the guys wraped in cloth could have been
                      from anytime, but I doubt people wore what basically ammounted to a
                      sheet wraped around, holding the arms & legs together...


                      Uhhh...I'm aware that there are European churches where the dead are displayed decoratively, but I was raised in a tradition where you put them in the ground and leave them there. Doing my best not to shudder and twitch.

                      Raquel
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