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Re: "theme" peeve

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  • wodeford <wodeford@yahoo.com>
    ... his furs ... who Play ... we could ... people who ... when they ... http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/authentic_sca/vwp?.dir=/Jehanne%
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 2, 2003
      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Gerita" <hpockets@v...> wrote:
      > We decided that we would be guests/ambassadors at Court. We
      > dressed carefully, in our Very Best. The 9th Century Saxon wore
      his furs
      > and extra brat-thing, the Irish lady had all 9 yards on, etc. Some
      who Play
      > Elizabethan turned up noses at us, but we were doing the very best
      we could
      > to play along with an impossible demand. It does seem to me that
      people who
      > choose themes for events need to consider situations such as this
      when they
      > do it.

      http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/authentic_sca/vwp?.dir=/Jehanne%
      27s+Photos&.src=gr&.dnm=junecrowncourt1.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%
      3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/authentic_sca/lst%3f%
      26.dir=/Jehanne%2527s%2bPhotos%26.src=gr%26.view=t

      shows the relentlessly plain green linen tunic I deliberately wore to
      the first coronation of Andreas and Isabella, in response to Her
      Majesty's published comment: "What's a t-tunic."

      Cheers,
      Jehanne
    • ketamina06 <ketamina06@yahoo.com>
      I agree with your concerns here, but I have come to a bit of an understanding. Others have posted pretty much what I think, as well. I personally love themes,
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 2, 2003
        I agree with your concerns here, but I have come to a bit of an
        understanding. Others have posted pretty much what I think, as well.

        I personally love themes, and I love making up a persona. I'm not a
        big roleplayer (makes me feel kinda funny to talk in an accent or act
        a certain way like a haughty Dutchess or a grovelling peasant...but
        that's just me), but I like to elaborate on a backround story spiced
        with research. Themes are wonderful ways to introduce different eras
        and modes, and I know of more than one person who has changed their
        persona after discovering something new.

        Everyone has their own agenda in the SCA. Some are hard set on one
        persona, some have a three year cycle where they are gung-ho on a new
        era for the first year, they perfect it in the second year, and
        interest peeters out as they find something new to morph to the third
        year. Others have several personas they keep up on. Since the SCA
        isn't some hard-core roleplaying group and we are dedicated to the
        research and recreation of history to the best of our ability, all
        types of players should be cherished.

        My point? Well, if there is a theme to an event, all those attending
        should make an effort to implement themselves into that theme. On the
        other hand, those at the event should encourage this; if all one
        person brings to represent the theme is a dish of food or some quotes
        from a history book, go with it. In my personal opinion, I think
        attendees should try as hard as they can to play into a theme and to
        not impose their personal feelings or views of what the event should
        be. After all, they chose to attend rather than run the event.

        I have been to my fair share of events with themes that failed
        miserably due to low attendance or a group of folks that stick
        together and pressure the rest of the attendees to play their way.
        Most of them mean well, but it still happens.

        Themes are GREAT, we need more of them. People need to be encouraged
        to be creative, and praised for any attempts, no matter how large or
        small. Themes tend to introduce new thoughts and ideas, even if they
        end up being a bit tedious.

        ~Ket
      • Alfgar the Sententious <baronalfgar@yaho
        There are ways and ways of dealing with a theme. A nearby branch advertised A Night in Cordova . Very well.. I was an agent of King John, trying to negotiate
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 2, 2003
          There are ways and ways of dealing with a theme. A nearby branch
          advertised "A Night in Cordova". Very well.. I was an agent of King
          John, trying to negotiate an alliance with the Emir. (One of the
          stories Everybody Knew in the Middle Ages.)
        • Rosine
          We ve had mixed results. There s two repeating events that we do, both 16th century. One is Revels at the Inns of Court and the autocrat has a history of
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 3, 2003
            We've had mixed results. There's two repeating events that we do, both
            16th century. One is "Revels at the Inns of Court" and the autocrat has a
            history of inudating everyone with more and more information about what the
            Inns of Court were, how they came about, which "houses" one can join and so
            on - the web minister obliges with links that support all sorts of pattern
            sites, historical info, everything someone would need to know, and our A&S
            classes support the manufacture of what is needed for the individual
            attendee. And the only fighting so far has been a limited rapier display
            (actually a mini-play with the players ad-libbing as long as it led to an
            actual duel, with seconds). This gave a few folks a chance to be dramatic
            and for one set of duelists to introduce the "new" reproduction dueling
            pistols that shoot SCA-approved ah, bullets, I guess I'd better call them.
            Anyway, of the times that we've put it on, we've had only one group of folks
            show up OOP - but they didn't come the following year (we offered to arrange
            loaner garb, they decided to stay in their period/culture and not attend. We
            just made sure that subsequent events were close enough on the calendar to
            give them a chance to play soon).
            The other event is also a small-attendance event. "Barnacled Bullfrog" is
            a low-brow scuzzy wharf tavern... Folks of high social standing do not
            generally attend - but they do seem to have a lot of look-alike cousins or
            siblings "born on the other side of the blanket". We don't mention the
            link... It gives everyone an opportunity to be silly yet still be in a
            "period" context - the women who want to be tavern wenches can, those who
            do not can be folks on pilgrimage and be as "uncomfortable" or "relaxed" as
            their personas desire to play it. Rapier fighting takes place outside near
            the front of the tavern, next to the bay, while heavy fighting is on the
            other side of the buiilding and somewhat less noticable - giving the heavies
            a chance to play too, but not disturb the general "look" of the event. The
            front porch gives one only a view of the bay, the crocet field and the
            fencers.
            There's a wide field nearby which is sometiimes used for archery - the
            archery marshal plays a petty official whose job it is to ensure that "every
            man does his saturday practise of archery, as is according to the King's
            decree".
            No court at this one. Once, we needed to have a Royal court - the king
            and queen played along. She (having just given birth) took the opportunity
            to stay in a little retiring room and have visitors, or not, as she wanted,
            while he went without the crown or the high garb and played darts, watched
            the fighting, gambled... with many an elbow nudge and a "Your Maj-er, ah,
            here, fellow, would you like to join us at Gluckshaus?". When the time came
            for court, they and their retainers retired, changed clothes, and reappeared
            outside, to enter the tavern preceeded by an incredibly officious set of
            guards who cleared a space and looked down their noses at the tavern owner
            and - you get the picture. Much fun was had by all.
            We don't hold either event often, but so far, they are the ones with a
            guarenteed number of attendees.

            Any other attempt at "theme" falls flat and is usually just a vehicle for
            an A&S (which doesn't often work out) and the feast menu - which always
            works out.

            Rosine
          • Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil
            ... My problems with this are as follows: Not enough lead time from when the theme is announced to when the date of the event will be - I don t mind knowing
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 3, 2003
              At 11:41 PM 2/28/2003 -0500, you wrote:
              >And then
              >they send out all these notices, "Come to our event! The theme is
              >such-and-such, and we'll be having a such-and-such feast and a bardic
              >competition and an A&S competition and a such-and-such tourney!" and
              >then everyone just pretty much ignores it and does what they do for
              >every event.

              My problems with this are as follows:
              Not enough lead time from when the theme is announced to when the date of
              the event will be - I don't mind knowing the theme but don't give me less
              than three months to prepare an entire kit from scratch that I won't use
              again for your event! (not that I'd do it anyway, I might make a new
              outfit to fit the theme if I knew I would have occasion to wear it again)

              Unless the group putting on the event has a bunch of loaner stuff ready and
              waiting will they get everyone to dress with the theme - expecting
              otherwise shows short-sighted-ness and a lot of insular thinking on the
              part of the group doing the event.

              Not everyone can - as was discussed in an earlier post. It's money out of
              pocket to make a new kit to fit an era/place which one does not regularly
              adhere to - it's inconsiderate to think that everyone will do so just
              because it's "insert title here" event.

              Not everyone will - as discussed earlier, I believe. People who have
              persona choose it for a reason. To ask them not to portray that for which
              they play the game could be considered rude. To look down upon them for
              doing so is rude. Someone who is comfortable in the frills and layers of a
              Tudor gown won't necessicarily be comfortable in a 14th century garment -
              why force them to do so? The group hosting the event would be making their
              guests uncomfortable; a big no-no from where I come.

              Just a thought,
              Smiles,
              Despina de la still buried
            • Kass McGann <historian@reconstructinghis
              I understand what you re on about, Katherine. It s as if a group decides to throw an event with a theme, but doesn t go all the way. They have some food that
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 3, 2003
                I understand what you're on about, Katherine. It's as if a group
                decides to throw an event with a theme, but doesn't go all the
                way. They have some food that follows the theme, and they
                group the A&S classes into categories under the theme. But the
                event isn't truly themed in any way shape or form.

                Of course I don't think anyone should require people to make
                new outfits to attend an event. But to take for example a
                Japanese themed event -- if you have no interest or desire in
                Japanese culture, don't go to the event. Of course the events to
                which I refer in particular were small and intimate. They included
                no fighting and there wasn't even any room to teach a class
                (although I think some were taught). So it's not as if Coronation
                or 12th Night had a theme.

                I was around when one of the Queen's whims was "No T-tunics"
                and Jehanne made her lovely green tunic. Not exactly a theme,
                but...

                I kinda don't get themes. I mean, I am a 16th century
                Irishwoman or a 10th century Japanese woman or a 15th century
                Englishwoman and that's the size of it. I'm not going to let
                anything convince me to be Italian or Spanish or Chinese in any
                period. I just have no interest. But for someone who doesn't
                have a persona and likes to make different outfits all the time, I
                guess this could be motivation for a new one.

                I don't exactly know what I'm saying. Yes, I generally ignore
                themes in terms of what I wear. But I think if you have a theme, it
                should reach across more than just the food served at the feast.
                A 16th century Irishwoman can attend a "party" whose theme is
                the Roman Empire and not wear a toga, y'know? But it would be
                nice if we played Roman games, watched Roman athletics, as
                well as ate Roman food.

                So I guess I'm agreeing with you, Katherine. Themes should
                mean something more than just what's served at the feast. But I
                don't think anyone should feel they must make a new outfit for it if
                they aren't looking for a project. I don't think anyone was saying
                that, though.

                Kass
                rambling
              • Rosine
                ... You re kidding me, right? That would necessitate a 6 month hiatus from the Royal Progress... no way would I age my persona and give up my embroidered
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 3, 2003
                  > I was around when one of the Queen's whims was "No T-tunics"
                  > and Jehanne made her lovely green tunic. Not exactly a theme,
                  > but...

                  You're kidding me, right?

                  That would necessitate a 6 month hiatus from the Royal Progress... no way
                  would I "age" my persona and give up my embroidered garb to wear clothing I
                  don't want and don't like just because the Queen was into Renn or later.
                  (Okay, so I count "renn" starting in the 12th century... you get my point).


                  Grrrrr..... ignorance!


                  Rosine
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