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Re: [Authentic_SCA] "theme" peeve

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  • Gerita
    I m guilty as charged here, Katherine. But, frankly, it fries my goat when a time/place theme is announced that would make me have to spend $500 for garb for
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 2, 2003
      I'm guilty as charged here, Katherine. But, frankly, it fries my goat when
      a time/place theme is announced that would make me have to spend $500 for
      garb for three that we'd absolutely never wear again! This year's Twelfth
      Night was a case in point. The theme was "Elizabethan". Heck, Elizabeth
      herself was even present (with clothes of the most elaborate, too. Red
      hair, white makeup, the works) from time to time. I sat my family and House
      down because all were in a terrible panic. None of us own stitch one of
      Elizabethan clothing. Most of us are not working for one reason or another.
      But to miss Twelfth Night (and the incredible feast served) is a crime in
      The Steppes. We decided that we would be guests/ambassadors at Court. We
      dressed carefully, in our Very Best. The 9th Century Saxon wore his furs
      and extra brat-thing, the Irish lady had all 9 yards on, etc. Some who Play
      Elizabethan turned up noses at us, but we were doing the very best we could
      to play along with an impossible demand. It does seem to me that people who
      choose themes for events need to consider situations such as this when they
      do it.
      So. For our day of learning Japanese arts, the stated theme is "come and
      learn", since we had to have one. We fully expect folks to turn up in jeans
      and T-shirts. Papermaking will be offered, after all! For the next event i
      hope to Autocrat, the theme will have something to do with Arabs in the
      Bazaar, not quite sure on that. Ever been to a bazaar? What clacking of
      foreign tongues, broadness of dress (although i did cover my head and arms
      in honor of Mohammed's teachings), far-flung-ness of people's homes! Just
      working on the bid now, we're all excited!

      respectfully,
      gerita
    • wodeford <wodeford@yahoo.com>
      ... his furs ... who Play ... we could ... people who ... when they ... http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/authentic_sca/vwp?.dir=/Jehanne%
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 2, 2003
        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Gerita" <hpockets@v...> wrote:
        > We decided that we would be guests/ambassadors at Court. We
        > dressed carefully, in our Very Best. The 9th Century Saxon wore
        his furs
        > and extra brat-thing, the Irish lady had all 9 yards on, etc. Some
        who Play
        > Elizabethan turned up noses at us, but we were doing the very best
        we could
        > to play along with an impossible demand. It does seem to me that
        people who
        > choose themes for events need to consider situations such as this
        when they
        > do it.

        http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/authentic_sca/vwp?.dir=/Jehanne%
        27s+Photos&.src=gr&.dnm=junecrowncourt1.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%
        3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/authentic_sca/lst%3f%
        26.dir=/Jehanne%2527s%2bPhotos%26.src=gr%26.view=t

        shows the relentlessly plain green linen tunic I deliberately wore to
        the first coronation of Andreas and Isabella, in response to Her
        Majesty's published comment: "What's a t-tunic."

        Cheers,
        Jehanne
      • wodeford <wodeford@yahoo.com>
        ... his furs ... who Play ... we could ... people who ... when they ... http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/authentic_sca/vwp?.dir=/Jehanne%
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 2, 2003
          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Gerita" <hpockets@v...> wrote:
          > We decided that we would be guests/ambassadors at Court. We
          > dressed carefully, in our Very Best. The 9th Century Saxon wore
          his furs
          > and extra brat-thing, the Irish lady had all 9 yards on, etc. Some
          who Play
          > Elizabethan turned up noses at us, but we were doing the very best
          we could
          > to play along with an impossible demand. It does seem to me that
          people who
          > choose themes for events need to consider situations such as this
          when they
          > do it.

          http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/authentic_sca/vwp?.dir=/Jehanne%
          27s+Photos&.src=gr&.dnm=junecrowncourt1.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%
          3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/authentic_sca/lst%3f%
          26.dir=/Jehanne%2527s%2bPhotos%26.src=gr%26.view=t

          shows the relentlessly plain green linen tunic I deliberately wore to
          the first coronation of Andreas and Isabella, in response to Her
          Majesty's published comment: "What's a t-tunic."

          Cheers,
          Jehanne
        • ketamina06 <ketamina06@yahoo.com>
          I agree with your concerns here, but I have come to a bit of an understanding. Others have posted pretty much what I think, as well. I personally love themes,
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 2, 2003
            I agree with your concerns here, but I have come to a bit of an
            understanding. Others have posted pretty much what I think, as well.

            I personally love themes, and I love making up a persona. I'm not a
            big roleplayer (makes me feel kinda funny to talk in an accent or act
            a certain way like a haughty Dutchess or a grovelling peasant...but
            that's just me), but I like to elaborate on a backround story spiced
            with research. Themes are wonderful ways to introduce different eras
            and modes, and I know of more than one person who has changed their
            persona after discovering something new.

            Everyone has their own agenda in the SCA. Some are hard set on one
            persona, some have a three year cycle where they are gung-ho on a new
            era for the first year, they perfect it in the second year, and
            interest peeters out as they find something new to morph to the third
            year. Others have several personas they keep up on. Since the SCA
            isn't some hard-core roleplaying group and we are dedicated to the
            research and recreation of history to the best of our ability, all
            types of players should be cherished.

            My point? Well, if there is a theme to an event, all those attending
            should make an effort to implement themselves into that theme. On the
            other hand, those at the event should encourage this; if all one
            person brings to represent the theme is a dish of food or some quotes
            from a history book, go with it. In my personal opinion, I think
            attendees should try as hard as they can to play into a theme and to
            not impose their personal feelings or views of what the event should
            be. After all, they chose to attend rather than run the event.

            I have been to my fair share of events with themes that failed
            miserably due to low attendance or a group of folks that stick
            together and pressure the rest of the attendees to play their way.
            Most of them mean well, but it still happens.

            Themes are GREAT, we need more of them. People need to be encouraged
            to be creative, and praised for any attempts, no matter how large or
            small. Themes tend to introduce new thoughts and ideas, even if they
            end up being a bit tedious.

            ~Ket
          • Alfgar the Sententious <baronalfgar@yaho
            There are ways and ways of dealing with a theme. A nearby branch advertised A Night in Cordova . Very well.. I was an agent of King John, trying to negotiate
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 2, 2003
              There are ways and ways of dealing with a theme. A nearby branch
              advertised "A Night in Cordova". Very well.. I was an agent of King
              John, trying to negotiate an alliance with the Emir. (One of the
              stories Everybody Knew in the Middle Ages.)
            • Rosine
              We ve had mixed results. There s two repeating events that we do, both 16th century. One is Revels at the Inns of Court and the autocrat has a history of
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 3, 2003
                We've had mixed results. There's two repeating events that we do, both
                16th century. One is "Revels at the Inns of Court" and the autocrat has a
                history of inudating everyone with more and more information about what the
                Inns of Court were, how they came about, which "houses" one can join and so
                on - the web minister obliges with links that support all sorts of pattern
                sites, historical info, everything someone would need to know, and our A&S
                classes support the manufacture of what is needed for the individual
                attendee. And the only fighting so far has been a limited rapier display
                (actually a mini-play with the players ad-libbing as long as it led to an
                actual duel, with seconds). This gave a few folks a chance to be dramatic
                and for one set of duelists to introduce the "new" reproduction dueling
                pistols that shoot SCA-approved ah, bullets, I guess I'd better call them.
                Anyway, of the times that we've put it on, we've had only one group of folks
                show up OOP - but they didn't come the following year (we offered to arrange
                loaner garb, they decided to stay in their period/culture and not attend. We
                just made sure that subsequent events were close enough on the calendar to
                give them a chance to play soon).
                The other event is also a small-attendance event. "Barnacled Bullfrog" is
                a low-brow scuzzy wharf tavern... Folks of high social standing do not
                generally attend - but they do seem to have a lot of look-alike cousins or
                siblings "born on the other side of the blanket". We don't mention the
                link... It gives everyone an opportunity to be silly yet still be in a
                "period" context - the women who want to be tavern wenches can, those who
                do not can be folks on pilgrimage and be as "uncomfortable" or "relaxed" as
                their personas desire to play it. Rapier fighting takes place outside near
                the front of the tavern, next to the bay, while heavy fighting is on the
                other side of the buiilding and somewhat less noticable - giving the heavies
                a chance to play too, but not disturb the general "look" of the event. The
                front porch gives one only a view of the bay, the crocet field and the
                fencers.
                There's a wide field nearby which is sometiimes used for archery - the
                archery marshal plays a petty official whose job it is to ensure that "every
                man does his saturday practise of archery, as is according to the King's
                decree".
                No court at this one. Once, we needed to have a Royal court - the king
                and queen played along. She (having just given birth) took the opportunity
                to stay in a little retiring room and have visitors, or not, as she wanted,
                while he went without the crown or the high garb and played darts, watched
                the fighting, gambled... with many an elbow nudge and a "Your Maj-er, ah,
                here, fellow, would you like to join us at Gluckshaus?". When the time came
                for court, they and their retainers retired, changed clothes, and reappeared
                outside, to enter the tavern preceeded by an incredibly officious set of
                guards who cleared a space and looked down their noses at the tavern owner
                and - you get the picture. Much fun was had by all.
                We don't hold either event often, but so far, they are the ones with a
                guarenteed number of attendees.

                Any other attempt at "theme" falls flat and is usually just a vehicle for
                an A&S (which doesn't often work out) and the feast menu - which always
                works out.

                Rosine
              • Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil
                ... My problems with this are as follows: Not enough lead time from when the theme is announced to when the date of the event will be - I don t mind knowing
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 3, 2003
                  At 11:41 PM 2/28/2003 -0500, you wrote:
                  >And then
                  >they send out all these notices, "Come to our event! The theme is
                  >such-and-such, and we'll be having a such-and-such feast and a bardic
                  >competition and an A&S competition and a such-and-such tourney!" and
                  >then everyone just pretty much ignores it and does what they do for
                  >every event.

                  My problems with this are as follows:
                  Not enough lead time from when the theme is announced to when the date of
                  the event will be - I don't mind knowing the theme but don't give me less
                  than three months to prepare an entire kit from scratch that I won't use
                  again for your event! (not that I'd do it anyway, I might make a new
                  outfit to fit the theme if I knew I would have occasion to wear it again)

                  Unless the group putting on the event has a bunch of loaner stuff ready and
                  waiting will they get everyone to dress with the theme - expecting
                  otherwise shows short-sighted-ness and a lot of insular thinking on the
                  part of the group doing the event.

                  Not everyone can - as was discussed in an earlier post. It's money out of
                  pocket to make a new kit to fit an era/place which one does not regularly
                  adhere to - it's inconsiderate to think that everyone will do so just
                  because it's "insert title here" event.

                  Not everyone will - as discussed earlier, I believe. People who have
                  persona choose it for a reason. To ask them not to portray that for which
                  they play the game could be considered rude. To look down upon them for
                  doing so is rude. Someone who is comfortable in the frills and layers of a
                  Tudor gown won't necessicarily be comfortable in a 14th century garment -
                  why force them to do so? The group hosting the event would be making their
                  guests uncomfortable; a big no-no from where I come.

                  Just a thought,
                  Smiles,
                  Despina de la still buried
                • Kass McGann <historian@reconstructinghis
                  I understand what you re on about, Katherine. It s as if a group decides to throw an event with a theme, but doesn t go all the way. They have some food that
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 3, 2003
                    I understand what you're on about, Katherine. It's as if a group
                    decides to throw an event with a theme, but doesn't go all the
                    way. They have some food that follows the theme, and they
                    group the A&S classes into categories under the theme. But the
                    event isn't truly themed in any way shape or form.

                    Of course I don't think anyone should require people to make
                    new outfits to attend an event. But to take for example a
                    Japanese themed event -- if you have no interest or desire in
                    Japanese culture, don't go to the event. Of course the events to
                    which I refer in particular were small and intimate. They included
                    no fighting and there wasn't even any room to teach a class
                    (although I think some were taught). So it's not as if Coronation
                    or 12th Night had a theme.

                    I was around when one of the Queen's whims was "No T-tunics"
                    and Jehanne made her lovely green tunic. Not exactly a theme,
                    but...

                    I kinda don't get themes. I mean, I am a 16th century
                    Irishwoman or a 10th century Japanese woman or a 15th century
                    Englishwoman and that's the size of it. I'm not going to let
                    anything convince me to be Italian or Spanish or Chinese in any
                    period. I just have no interest. But for someone who doesn't
                    have a persona and likes to make different outfits all the time, I
                    guess this could be motivation for a new one.

                    I don't exactly know what I'm saying. Yes, I generally ignore
                    themes in terms of what I wear. But I think if you have a theme, it
                    should reach across more than just the food served at the feast.
                    A 16th century Irishwoman can attend a "party" whose theme is
                    the Roman Empire and not wear a toga, y'know? But it would be
                    nice if we played Roman games, watched Roman athletics, as
                    well as ate Roman food.

                    So I guess I'm agreeing with you, Katherine. Themes should
                    mean something more than just what's served at the feast. But I
                    don't think anyone should feel they must make a new outfit for it if
                    they aren't looking for a project. I don't think anyone was saying
                    that, though.

                    Kass
                    rambling
                  • Rosine
                    ... You re kidding me, right? That would necessitate a 6 month hiatus from the Royal Progress... no way would I age my persona and give up my embroidered
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 3, 2003
                      > I was around when one of the Queen's whims was "No T-tunics"
                      > and Jehanne made her lovely green tunic. Not exactly a theme,
                      > but...

                      You're kidding me, right?

                      That would necessitate a 6 month hiatus from the Royal Progress... no way
                      would I "age" my persona and give up my embroidered garb to wear clothing I
                      don't want and don't like just because the Queen was into Renn or later.
                      (Okay, so I count "renn" starting in the 12th century... you get my point).


                      Grrrrr..... ignorance!


                      Rosine
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