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Roman and Chroniques

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  • Kass McGann <historian@reconstructinghis
    Anyone know the dates (at least a decade) on the Roman de la Rose and Chroniques de France ? I m trying to date some clothing shown in them. Also, does
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 4 12:28 PM
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      Anyone know the dates (at least a decade) on the "Roman de la Rose"
      and "Chroniques de France"? I'm trying to date some clothing shown
      in them.

      Also, does anyone know if there are notes to either of these works on
      the internet? I have all the images but no noted on what they depict.

      Thanks,
      Kass
    • demontsegur <demontsegur@yahoo.com>
      ... on ... depict. ... Darling, you have all the images ??? Do share! The Roman de la Rose has been illustrated multiple times over the course of three
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 4 12:42 PM
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Kass McGann <historian@r...>"
        <historian@r...> wrote:
        > Anyone know the dates (at least a decade) on the "Roman de la Rose"
        > and "Chroniques de France"? I'm trying to date some clothing shown
        > in them.
        >
        > Also, does anyone know if there are notes to either of these works
        on
        > the internet? I have all the images but no noted on what they
        depict.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Kass

        Darling, you have "all the images"??? Do share! The Roman de la Rose
        has been illustrated multiple times over the course of three
        centuries -- late 13th through late 15th. It was written by two
        authors over the course of the early and late 13th century --
        Guillaume de Lorris and later, Jean de Meun.

        And as for Chroniques, I can't remember the date of that off-hand
        (very late 14th, I'm guessing?), but I'd LOVE to get my hands on the
        complete illos. Info please, missy!

        -Marcele
      • Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil
        ... Which version? There are several, if I recall correctly.
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 4 12:43 PM
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          At 08:28 PM 2/4/2003 +0000, you wrote:
          >Anyone know the dates (at least a decade) on the "Roman de la Rose"

          Which version? There are several, if I recall correctly.
        • Kass McGann <historian@reconstructinghis
          ... Rose ... This one s got to be the illustrations from the late 15th century. The clothing is decidedly 1480s or later and some of it even pushes 1500. I
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 4 12:57 PM
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            > Darling, you have "all the images"??? Do share! The Roman de la
            Rose
            > has been illustrated multiple times over the course of three
            > centuries -- late 13th through late 15th. It was written by two
            > authors over the course of the early and late 13th century --
            > Guillaume de Lorris and later, Jean de Meun.

            This one's got to be the illustrations from the late 15th century.
            The clothing is decidedly 1480s or later and some of it even pushes
            1500. I want to know that they say, though. The script around the
            outside of the images is cut off.

            > And as for Chroniques, I can't remember the date of that off-hand
            > (very late 14th, I'm guessing?),

            Chroniques looks 1460-80. What I want to know is is it close enough
            to 1461 for me to use it...

            >but I'd LOVE to get my hands on the
            > complete illos. Info please, missy!

            Remember that CD I told you Jeff gave me in Baltimore? They're all
            on that. I could lend it to you and you could burn yourself a copy.
            Or you could wait until I put the clothing-related ones up on my
            website along with notes. =)

            Kass
          • Kass McGann <historian@reconstructinghis
            ... This has got to be one of the later versions. The clothing is proto- Tudor in some pictures. Kass
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 4 12:58 PM
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              > Which version? There are several, if I recall correctly.

              This has got to be one of the later versions. The clothing is "proto-
              Tudor" in some pictures.

              Kass
            • demontsegur <demontsegur@yahoo.com>
              ... enough ... Oops, then I m confusing it with another Chroniques, sorry! ... copy. ... I won t rush you on any of that -- I m still working my way through
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 4 1:37 PM
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                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Kass McGann <historian@r...>"
                <historian@r...> wrote:
                > Chroniques looks 1460-80. What I want to know is is it close
                enough
                > to 1461 for me to use it...

                Oops, then I'm confusing it with another Chroniques, sorry!

                > Remember that CD I told you Jeff gave me in Baltimore? They're all
                > on that. I could lend it to you and you could burn yourself a
                copy.
                > Or you could wait until I put the clothing-related ones up on my
                > website along with notes. =)

                I won't rush you on any of that -- I'm still working my way through
                the 14th century and have a looong while before I get as far as
                WotR. ;^)

                I do have samples taken from the late 15th century illos in my copy
                of Roman de la Rose at home. I'll flip through and see what it says,
                source-wise.

                -Marcele
              • Kass McGann <historian@reconstructinghis
                ... Or I could have the name wrong and have confused it. The copy I have just says Chronicles . I m assuming it s the Chroniques de France because of
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 4 1:41 PM
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                  > Oops, then I'm confusing it with another Chroniques, sorry!

                  Or I could have the name wrong and have confused it. The copy I have
                  just says "Chronicles". I'm assuming it's the Chroniques de France
                  because of content.

                  > I won't rush you on any of that -- I'm still working my way through
                  > the 14th century and have a looong while before I get as far as
                  > WotR. ;^)

                  Darn and shucks! <snaps fingers> And I thought my fiendish plot to
                  drag you kicking and screaming in the the 15th century was going to
                  work this time! ;)

                  > I do have samples taken from the late 15th century illos in my copy
                  > of Roman de la Rose at home. I'll flip through and see what it
                  says,
                  > source-wise.

                  Rockin'. I appreciate it. I'm reasonably certain it's too late for
                  my purposes, but parts of it look very 1460s...

                  Kass
                • Steven Proctor
                  ... This could be the Morgan948, done in 1520... Grrrr. Send me a pic from it, maybe I can peg it down better than that... ... The Chroniques she s referring
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 4 5:46 PM
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                    "Kass McGann " wrote:

                    > This one's got to be the illustrations from the late 15th century.
                    > The clothing is decidedly 1480s or later and some of it even pushes
                    > 1500. I want to know that they say, though. The script around the
                    > outside of the images is cut off.

                    This could be the Morgan948, done in 1520... Grrrr. Send me a pic from
                    it, maybe I can peg it down better than that...

                    > > And as for Chroniques, I can't remember the date of that off-hand
                    > > (very late 14th, I'm guessing?),
                    >
                    > Chroniques looks 1460-80. What I want to know is is it close enough
                    > to 1461 for me to use it...

                    The Chroniques she's referring to is the Chronicle of Froissart, not the
                    Grandes... It's online at
                    http://www.bnf.fr/enluminures/manuscrits/amanuscrit.htm

                    She sent me a pic, that's how I know... :-D

                    > >but I'd LOVE to get my hands on the
                    > > complete illos. Info please, missy!
                    >
                    > Remember that CD I told you Jeff gave me in Baltimore? They're all
                    > on that. I could lend it to you and you could burn yourself a copy.
                    > Or you could wait until I put the clothing-related ones up on my
                    > website along with notes. =)

                    Hmmmmmm....... :-D
                    I've never been a patient man...

                    Ta
                    Adhemar


                    --
                    It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
                    It is by the beans of Java that the thoughts acquire speed,
                    the hands acquire the shakes; the shakes become a warning.
                    It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
                  • Anneke Lyffland
                    ... Would it be MS. Douce 195? The description at Bodleian website says: Guillaume de Lorris and Jean de Meung, Le Roman de la Rose, in a manuscript made for
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 5 8:49 AM
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                      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Kass McGann <historian@r...>" <historian@r...> wrote:
                      > > Which version? There are several, if I recall correctly.
                      >
                      > This has got to be one of the later versions. The clothing is "proto-
                      > Tudor" in some pictures.

                      Would it be MS. Douce 195? The description at Bodleian website says: Guillaume de Lorris and Jean de Meung, Le Roman de la Rose, in a manuscript made for Louise of Savoy, mother of Francis I, with many miniatures in the style of Robinet Testard, French, late 15th cent.

                      Bodleian has put the whole book (well, almost, some pages are missing) up on their site: http://image.ox.ac.uk/show?collection=bodleian&manuscript=msdouce195

                      Based on the clothing it looks very late 15th century, 1490's and maybe later.

                      HTH

                      Anneke

                      -~*~-
                      Life's a journey - not a destination. Amazing, Aerosmith
                    • Kass McGann <historian@reconstructinghis
                      ... maybe later. Thank you, Anneke. That s rather what I thought looking at some of the clothes. I appreciate your help. Kass
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 5 8:53 AM
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                        > Based on the clothing it looks very late 15th century, 1490's and
                        maybe later.

                        Thank you, Anneke. That's rather what I thought looking at some of
                        the clothes. I appreciate your help.

                        Kass
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