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Kass . . . . .

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  • Carolle M Cox
    Kass, hon - you re famous! We were discussing various colors on another list, vis a vis what would be appropriate for striped stockings. I suggested anything
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 23, 2002
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      Kass, hon - you're famous!
      We were discussing various colors on another list, vis a vis what would be
      appropriate for striped stockings. I suggested anything you could get from
      a veggie dye, letting out black, i supposed.
      Whereupon the great lady responded 'Well, Kass McGann's gotten black!"

      LOL! Glad to be among such well-known types!

      Gerita
    • Lady Grace
      See, Kass...I told you that you are a celebrity. Now you can t deny it. ===== Lady Grace FitzHugh, the befuddled Bene legere saecla vincere ( To read well is
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 23, 2002
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        See, Kass...I told you that you are a celebrity. Now
        you can't deny it.



        =====
        Lady Grace FitzHugh, the befuddled
        Bene legere saecla vincere
        ( To read well is to master the ages)
        Yahoo nickname: ladygrace_fitzhugh

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      • Kass McGann <historian@reconstructinghis
        ... Okay, I give in. Plant me a star outside the Chinese Theatre and I ll come stick my feet in the cement for you. =) You know what s funny, Gerita? I
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 24, 2002
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          > See, Kass...I told you that you are a celebrity. Now
          > you can't deny it.

          Okay, I give in. Plant me a star outside the Chinese Theatre and
          I'll come stick my feet in the cement for you. =)

          You know what's funny, Gerita? I never made black. Never even
          attempted making black. With natural dyes, my goal has always been
          to see how difficult (or easy) it is to make bright, ostentacious
          colours and to see how long they'll stay that way. "Sad" colours
          just don't interest me.

          I've *painted* fabric with black, but that was ink and I didn't make
          it.

          I wonder where they got this from...

          Kass
        • Kass McGann <historian@reconstructinghis
          ... Is that why I can t get through the crowds outside my house anymore? And I thought it was just Christmas carollers... ;) ... would be ... get from ...
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 24, 2002
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            > Kass, hon - you're famous!

            Is that why I can't get through the crowds outside my house anymore?
            And I thought it was just Christmas carollers... ;)

            > We were discussing various colors on another list, vis a vis what
            would be
            > appropriate for striped stockings. I suggested anything you could
            get from
            > a veggie dye, letting out black, i supposed.
            > Whereupon the great lady responded 'Well, Kass McGann's gotten
            black!"

            I just want to clear something up because I'm afraid I misled people
            with my previous response.

            Black is possible with vegetable dyes. Well, vegetable dyes plus
            iron oxide (rust) which is easy enough to make or get.

            I've often heard it said that black is an expensive dye. This simply
            isn't true. It's not expensive to dye something black. Got a good
            source of tannin (oak galls or sumac branches will do) and some
            rust? You've got all the ingredients for black dye. But black dye
            has two adverse properties: it's fugitive and it's damaging.

            We tend to think that only the rich had black because only the rich
            could maintain the black colour. Black dye fades quickly into brown,
            red, or even green tones (depending on the other component dyes). So
            the people who were wearing black weren't wearing it for very long.
            Perhaps that black doublet only stayed black for the tourney season.
            That's an expense.

            Another point is that black dye is incredibly damaging to clothing
            fibres, especially silk. You may have a black brocade gown, but you
            wouldn't have it very long before it literally started to
            disintegrate. Metals and silks don't mix well. And iron doesn't mix
            well with wool or linen either. So dyeing your clothing black meant
            you weren't going to have the colour or the clothing very long. This
            is where our idea of expense comes from.

            So black isn't an expensive dye to make. It's an expensive dye
            to "keep".

            Just about any colour you can imagine can be made with vegetable (or
            animal) dyes that were known in period. The range depends on the
            skill of the dyers and the expense the patron wants to incurr. The
            famous unicorn tapestries show a myriad of colours which were all
            made with only three dyestuffs: madder root, indigo/woad, and weld.
            Red, blue, and yellow -- the primary colours. You can make
            everything else. Of course evergreen green is extremely difficult
            while lime green is a no-brainer. And rust red (madder) is easy to
            get, but pinkish reds (kermes) cost alot of money. Bright pink and
            orange (safflower) take time and a lot of petals, but are relatively
            cheap.

            Natural dyes are never as bright as their modern anoline
            counterparts, but they can be quite shocking (like safflower pink and
            weld/woad lime green). And I've yet to come across a colour that I
            could label "impossible" with natural dyes. Some take more patience
            and more money than others, but if you've got the three primary
            colours, you *can* make anything.

            So who's gotten it into her head to make stripped stockings? Oh my!

            Kass
          • Carolle M Cox
            ... Actually, we were discussing dressing her little boy, who has a Germanic persona. So it must have been SCA-German. She s going to buy white exercise
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 24, 2002
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              > So who's gotten it into her head to make stripped stockings? Oh my!
              >
              > Kass

              Actually, we were discussing dressing her little boy, who has a Germanic
              persona. So it must have been SCA-German. She's going to buy white
              exercise tights (the opaque kind) and wanted to dye them in stripes. She
              asked what colors to use. . . . . .

              Gerita
            • Carolle M Cox
              No clue, but it took her about 10 minutes to shoot that back at me! She was quite certain of herself! And if Grumman s will allow it, you got it. Gerita ...
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 24, 2002
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                No clue, but it took her about 10 minutes to shoot that back at me! She was
                quite certain of herself!

                And if Grumman's will allow it, you got it.

                Gerita


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <historian@...>
                To: <Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 11:49 AM
                Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Kass . . . . .


                > > See, Kass...I told you that you are a celebrity. Now
                > > you can't deny it.
                >
                > Okay, I give in. Plant me a star outside the Chinese Theatre and
                > I'll come stick my feet in the cement for you. =)
                >
                > You know what's funny, Gerita? I never made black. Never even
                > attempted making black. With natural dyes, my goal has always been
                > to see how difficult (or easy) it is to make bright, ostentacious
                > colours and to see how long they'll stay that way. "Sad" colours
                > just don't interest me.
                >
                > I've *painted* fabric with black, but that was ink and I didn't make
                > it.
                >
                > I wonder where they got this from...
                >
                > Kass
                >
                >
                > ----------------------------------------------------
                > This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > authentic_SCA-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • Heather Rose Jones
                At 5:49 PM +0000 12/24/02, Kass McGann ... An object lesson in why But said so! is never sufficient support for an assertion.
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 24, 2002
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                  At 5:49 PM +0000 12/24/02, Kass McGann
                  <historian@...> wrote:
                  > > See, Kass...I told you that you are a celebrity. Now
                  >> you can't deny it.
                  >
                  >Okay, I give in. Plant me a star outside the Chinese Theatre and
                  >I'll come stick my feet in the cement for you. =)
                  >
                  >You know what's funny, Gerita? I never made black. Never even
                  >attempted making black. With natural dyes, my goal has always been
                  >to see how difficult (or easy) it is to make bright, ostentacious
                  >colours and to see how long they'll stay that way. "Sad" colours
                  >just don't interest me.
                  >
                  >I've *painted* fabric with black, but that was ink and I didn't make
                  >it.
                  >
                  >I wonder where they got this from...

                  <grin> An object lesson in why "But <so-and-so famous> said so!" is
                  never sufficient support for an assertion.

                  Heather
                  --
                  *****
                  Heather Rose Jones
                  hrjones@...
                  *****
                • Kass McGann <historian@reconstructinghis
                  ... Germanic ... stripes. She ... What a darling he will look! You have to ask her to send pictures. Kass
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 25, 2002
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                    > Actually, we were discussing dressing her little boy, who has a
                    Germanic
                    > persona. So it must have been SCA-German. She's going to buy white
                    > exercise tights (the opaque kind) and wanted to dye them in
                    stripes. She
                    > asked what colors to use. . . . . .

                    What a darling he will look! You have to ask her to send pictures.

                    Kass
                  • Kass McGann <historian@reconstructinghis
                    ... is ... Well, at least they weren t using my words as documentation for something that isn t possible. I mean, dyeing with black is possible; I just
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 25, 2002
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                      > <grin> An object lesson in why "But <so-and-so famous> said so!"
                      is
                      > never sufficient support for an assertion.

                      Well, at least they weren't using my words as documentation for
                      something that isn't possible. I mean, dyeing with black is
                      possible; I just haven't done it.

                      But yes, it is certainly a wonderful lesson, Heather.

                      Hey? Does this make me a legend? <WINK>

                      Kass
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