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Camicia

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  • Apollonia Margherita
    I am going to make a camicia for an Italian dress. Is the one at from Cut My Cote, also at reconstructing history a good pattern? Apollonia
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 12, 2002
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      I am going to make a camicia for an Italian dress.  Is the one at from Cut My Cote, also at reconstructing history a good pattern?
       
      Apollonia
    • Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil
      ... If it s on reconstructing history (the website) I d go with it. Everything on that site, I ve found, is so throughly researched it d make you weep.
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 12, 2002
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        At 10:46 AM 6/12/2002 -0400, you wrote:
        >I am going to make a camicia for an Italian dress. Is the one at from Cut
        >My Cote, also at reconstructing history a good pattern?

        If it's on reconstructing history (the website) I'd go with it. Everything
        on that site, I've found, is so throughly researched it'd make you
        weep. *grin* Of course, I've never made one. Perhaps if Vittoria is
        about she could help?

        Smiles,
        Despina
      • Jenn Ridley
        On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:46:50 -0400, Apollonia Margherita ... What do you mean by good ? Period style...probably. It s based on an extant camica from the
        Message 3 of 21 , Jun 12, 2002
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          On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:46:50 -0400, "Apollonia Margherita"
          <apollonia@...> wrote:

          >I am going to make a camicia for an Italian dress. Is the one at from Cut My Cote, also at reconstructing history a good pattern?


          What do you mean by "good"?

          Period style...probably. It's based on an extant camica from the
          1600's, but as Kass says, there's no reason to believe that it
          wouldn't have been used earlier. It certainly gives a period look.

          Easy to make...again, probably. It depends how comfortable you are
          putting gussets into slits. If you really don't like it, split the
          side panels all the way down to the hem, and put the gussets into the
          resulting side seam. Don't worry about getting the pleating into the
          band 'just right'...pleat it until it fits. If you are a BBW, you may
          need to make the neckband longer (and maybe make the panels wider)

          You really do need to use a light fabric...I did leines based on this
          pattern, and the corners where all the french seams came together were
          really hard to pleat/stitch into the neckband. The camica I did out
          of hanky linen was much easier to sew.

          jenn/stasia
          --
          Jenn Ridley
          jridley@...
        • Apollonia Margherita
          Well, as it is the first time I am making this one, I figured I d do it out of 100% cotton muslin. Before I order the hanky-weight linen... And yes, I am
          Message 4 of 21 , Jun 12, 2002
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            Well, as it is the first time I am making this one, I figured I'd do it out of 100% cotton muslin.  Before I order the hanky-weight linen...  And yes, I am goddess figured, so I figured I would have to make the pieces bigger....
             
             
            Apollonia
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:05 AM
            Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Camicia

            On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:46:50 -0400, "Apollonia Margherita"
            <apollonia@...> wrote:

            >I am going to make a camicia for an Italian dress.  Is the one at from Cut My Cote, also at reconstructing history a good pattern?


            What do you mean by "good"? 

            Period style...probably.  It's based on an extant camica from the
            1600's, but as Kass says, there's no reason to believe that it
            wouldn't have been used earlier.  It certainly gives a period look.

            Easy to make...again, probably.  It depends how comfortable you are
            putting gussets into slits.  If you really don't like it, split the
            side panels all the way down to the hem, and put the gussets into the
            resulting side seam.  Don't worry about getting the pleating into the
            band 'just right'...pleat it until it fits.  If you are a BBW, you may
            need to make the neckband longer (and maybe make the panels wider)

            You really do need to use a light fabric...I did leines based on this
            pattern, and the corners where all the french seams came together were
            really hard to pleat/stitch into the neckband.  The camica I did out
            of hanky linen was much easier to sew.

            jenn/stasia
            --
            Jenn Ridley
            jridley@...

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          • skyecatuk
            ... Everything ... is ... I ve done that one. It makes a nice full camicia. Lisa
            Message 5 of 21 , Jun 12, 2002
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              --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" <aheilvei@u...>
              > If it's on reconstructing history (the website) I'd go with it.
              Everything
              > on that site, I've found, is so throughly researched it'd make you
              > weep. *grin* Of course, I've never made one. Perhaps if Vittoria
              is
              > about she could help?
              >
              > Smiles,
              > Despina

              I've done that one. It makes a nice full camicia.

              Lisa
            • xina007eu
              ... from Cut My Cote, also at reconstructing history a good pattern? ... What s good ? Easy to make? Yes and no. You have to adjust the neckline and may have
              Message 6 of 21 , Jun 12, 2002
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                --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Apollonia Margherita" <apollonia@b...>
                wrote:
                > I am going to make a camicia for an Italian dress. Is the one at
                from Cut My Cote, also at reconstructing history a good pattern?
                >
                > Apollonia

                What's "good"?

                Easy to make?
                Yes and no. You have to adjust the neckline and may have to change
                the size of the underarm gusset.
                You'll have to gather the panels and sleeves to get them into the
                neckband and you really need to put in at least 3 - 4 rows of
                gathering to make it look good.
                On the other hand, all panels are rectangular, so it is "easier" to
                make than a modern raglan sleeve, which would be the only other way
                to produce a similar-looking garment.

                Looks good?
                Yes, if the fabric is fine enough. You really need a fine fabric for
                this because a lot of fabric is gathered into the neckline.

                Period?
                Yes. Even if it's from around 1600 and may be later than the 1600
                cutoff date, it's similar to Mary of Hungary's chemise
                (http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/hungarian_cutting.jpg), which
                dates from around 1520-30.

                Hope that helps!

                Christina
              • skyecatuk
                ... Oh, and look. This has a better explanation of cut really Weird than I could manage, for you Mary of Hungary people... Lisa
                Message 7 of 21 , Jun 12, 2002
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                  --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "xina007eu" <Christina_Lemke@h...> wrote:

                  > Period?
                  > Yes. Even if it's from around 1600 and may be later than the 1600
                  > cutoff date, it's similar to Mary of Hungary's chemise
                  > (http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/hungarian_cutting.jpg), which
                  > dates from around 1520-30.
                  >
                  > Hope that helps!
                  >
                  > Christina

                  Oh, and look. This has a better explanation of "cut really Weird"
                  than I could manage, for you Mary of Hungary people...

                  Lisa
                • ivinian
                  ... from Cut ... Everything ... is ... It s incredibly easy to make. The only thing I d do a bit differently is make the gussets bigger than 10 square. I m a
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jun 12, 2002
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                    --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" <aheilvei@u...>
                    wrote:
                    > At 10:46 AM 6/12/2002 -0400, you wrote:
                    > >I am going to make a camicia for an Italian dress. Is the one at
                    from Cut
                    > >My Cote, also at reconstructing history a good pattern?
                    >
                    > If it's on reconstructing history (the website) I'd go with it.
                    Everything
                    > on that site, I've found, is so throughly researched it'd make you
                    > weep. *grin* Of course, I've never made one. Perhaps if Vittoria
                    is
                    > about she could help?
                    >
                    > Smiles,
                    > Despina

                    It's incredibly easy to make. The only thing I'd do a bit differently
                    is make the gussets bigger than 10" square. I'm a fluffy woman and
                    10" seems to bind under my arms a bit.

                    I have one of these style chemises, and another from Birbari's book
                    with the weird pleats under the arms. I like the second for its less
                    pleated look -- under more fitted fashions, it's more comfy. I wear
                    it under my mint-green gamurra. I wear the first style under my
                    burgundy gamurra because all those little bitty gathers look so cool
                    with it. Both were very easy to make, but Reconstructing History's
                    camicia was easier.

                    Vangelista
                  • ivinian
                    ... do it out of 100% cotton muslin. Before I order the hanky-weight linen... And yes, I am goddess figured, so I figured I would have to make the pieces
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jun 12, 2002
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                      --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Apollonia Margherita" <apollonia@b...>
                      wrote:
                      > Well, as it is the first time I am making this one, I figured I'd
                      do it out of 100% cotton muslin. Before I order the hanky-weight
                      linen... And yes, I am goddess figured, so I figured I would have to
                      make the pieces bigger....
                      >
                      >
                      > Apollonia

                      You don't need to make the "loom width" too much bigger. I used 32"
                      wide panels, and mine is just voluminous. I used extremely
                      lightweight poly/cotton for mine. I'd just suggest slightly
                      increasing the gusset size.

                      Vangelista
                    • Apollonia Margherita
                      Would a 12 gusset be enough? Apollonia ... From: ivinian To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 12:01 AM Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re:
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jun 13, 2002
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                        Would a 12" gusset be enough?
                         
                        Apollonia
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: ivinian
                        Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 12:01 AM
                        Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Camicia

                        --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Apollonia Margherita" <apollonia@b...>
                        wrote:
                        > Well, as it is the first time I am making this one, I figured I'd
                        do it out of 100% cotton muslin.  Before I order the hanky-weight
                        linen...  And yes, I am goddess figured, so I figured I would have to
                        make the pieces bigger....
                        >
                        >
                        > Apollonia

                        You don't need to make the "loom width" too much bigger. I used 32"
                        wide panels, and mine is just voluminous. I used extremely
                        lightweight poly/cotton for mine. I'd just suggest slightly
                        increasing the gusset size.

                        Vangelista




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                      • ivinian
                        ... I m a size 18 (roughly 44-38-45).. I think 12 would be about enough for me, but haven t tried it yet. If you re normal-sized, 10 is probably fine. My
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jun 13, 2002
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                          --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Apollonia Margherita" <apollonia@b...>
                          wrote:
                          > Would a 12" gusset be enough?

                          I'm a size 18 (roughly 44-38-45).. I think 12" would be about enough
                          for me, but haven't tried it yet. If you're normal-sized, 10" is
                          probably fine. My problem is that I tend to overestimate sizes and
                          end up with stuff way too big (my efforts making drawstring pants
                          would make you LAUGH.. I cut them so wide that DB about got smothered
                          under all that fabric.. some people should stick to skirty things,
                          and I'm one of those people). So I wouldn't go much bigger than 12"
                          for myself, out of fear of overdoing it.

                          Vangelista
                        • gillshalos
                          Greetings, I ve seen another pattern layout for the Mary of Hungary garment which differs greatly from that one (which I find to be very suspect). This other
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jun 21, 2002
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                            Greetings,

                            I've seen another pattern layout for the Mary of Hungary garment which
                            differs greatly from that one (which I find to be very suspect). This
                            other one is in a German publication - I will ask Drea for the info as
                            she has a copy. IIRC, the smock with that gown isn't known to be
                            contemporary with the gown. From what I understand, it just happened
                            to be paired with it at some point in the 19th century.

                            Cheers,
                            Gwendoline

                            --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "skyecatuk" <skyecat@h...> wrote:
                            > --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "xina007eu" <Christina_Lemke@h...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Period?
                            > > Yes. Even if it's from around 1600 and may be later than the 1600
                            > > cutoff date, it's similar to Mary of Hungary's chemise
                            > > (http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/hungarian_cutting.jpg),
                            which
                            > > dates from around 1520-30.
                            > >
                            > > Hope that helps!
                            > >
                            > > Christina
                            >
                            > Oh, and look. This has a better explanation of "cut really Weird"
                            > than I could manage, for you Mary of Hungary people...
                            >
                            > Lisa
                          • N B
                            ... Oh dear, I would really appreciate it. It is a lot of material in that chemise to be doing it wrong! (I am working on this gown. I was thinking of doing a
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jun 22, 2002
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                              --- gillshalos <dameg@...> wrote:
                              > Greetings,
                              >
                              > I've seen another pattern layout for the Mary of Hungary
                              > garment which
                              > differs greatly from that one (which I find to be very
                              > suspect). This
                              > other one is in a German publication - I will ask Drea
                              > for the info as
                              > she has a copy. IIRC, the smock with that gown isn't
                              > known to be
                              > contemporary with the gown. From what I understand, it
                              > just happened
                              > to be paired with it at some point in the 19th century.
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              > Gwendoline


                              Oh dear, I would really appreciate it. It is a lot of
                              material in that chemise to be doing it wrong! (I am
                              working on this gown. I was thinking of doing a high necked
                              chemise that she wears in many of her other portraits
                              anyway, but would love to the true cut out for it anyway)

                              Catalina

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                            • skyecatuk
                              ... which ... This ... as ... happened ... Ah. Right. That s useful to know. Now I wonder if that s also the case with the 1620 transylvanian outfit also in
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jun 24, 2002
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                                --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "gillshalos" <dameg@a...> wrote:
                                > Greetings,
                                >
                                > I've seen another pattern layout for the Mary of Hungary garment
                                which
                                > differs greatly from that one (which I find to be very suspect).
                                This
                                > other one is in a German publication - I will ask Drea for the info
                                as
                                > she has a copy. IIRC, the smock with that gown isn't known to be
                                > contemporary with the gown. From what I understand, it just
                                happened
                                > to be paired with it at some point in the 19th century.
                                >
                                > Cheers,
                                > Gwendoline
                                >

                                Ah. Right. That's useful to know. Now I wonder if that's also the
                                case with the 1620 transylvanian outfit also in the museum?

                                Lisa (musing)
                              • Gwendoline Rosamond
                                Since it concerns one of the newer members on this list, Vitus from the Middle Kingdom - I thought I would pass along the news. Here is some recent news from
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jul 1, 2002
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                                  Since it concerns one of the newer members on this list, Vitus from the
                                  Middle Kingdom - I thought I would pass along the news.

                                  Here is some recent news from the Tournament Company list.:

                                  "Subject: Vitus

                                  To all that read these words,
                                  Know that the noble Vitus has
                                  been placed on vigil for the
                                  Order of Chivalry by Their
                                  most Royal Majesties Valharic
                                  and Alys.

                                  CONGRATULATIONS VITUS!!!!!!!

                                  Cheers,
                                  Gwendoline
                                • Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil
                                  ... Woo hoo! I really should have gone to that event this past weekend! Baroness Roaring Wastes Iasmine de Cordoba was put on vigil for the laurel as well.
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jul 1, 2002
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                                    >Here is some recent news from the Tournament Company list.:
                                    >
                                    >"Subject: Vitus
                                    >
                                    >To all that read these words,
                                    >Know that the noble Vitus has
                                    >been placed on vigil for the
                                    >Order of Chivalry by Their
                                    >most Royal Majesties Valharic
                                    >and Alys.
                                    >
                                    >CONGRATULATIONS VITUS!!!!!!!

                                    Woo hoo! I really should have gone to that event this past
                                    weekend! Baroness Roaring Wastes Iasmine de Cordoba was put on vigil for
                                    the laurel as well. (another good friend of mine and Bogdan - Bogdan calls
                                    her the "Goddess of Platina" as she knows the book practically by heart).

                                    Congrats Vitus! Well earned and well deserved!

                                    Smiles,
                                    Despina
                                  • argenthartae
                                    Does anyone know when and where the elevation is to be? At Pennsic? I certainly would like to be in attendence! Baronne Chrestienne (Ciaran) Aethelmearc
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jul 1, 2002
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                                      Does anyone know when and where the elevation is to be? At Pennsic?
                                      I certainly would like to be in attendence!

                                      Baronne Chrestienne (Ciaran)
                                      Aethelmearc

                                      > "Subject: Vitus
                                      >
                                      > To all that read these words,
                                      > Know that the noble Vitus has
                                      > been placed on vigil for the
                                      > Order of Chivalry by Their
                                      > most Royal Majesties Valharic
                                      > and Alys.
                                      >
                                      > CONGRATULATIONS VITUS!!!!!!!
                                      >
                                      > Cheers,
                                      > Gwendoline
                                    • autumnriver
                                      ... *blinks* Vitus as in Vitus Litold? Wow, excellent, long time due. Seems like just yesterday that he was beating the stuffing out of me (and just about
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jul 1, 2002
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                                        > To all that read these words,
                                        > Know that the noble Vitus has
                                        > been placed on vigil for the
                                        > Order of Chivalry by Their
                                        > most Royal Majesties Valharic
                                        > and Alys.
                                        >
                                        > CONGRATULATIONS VITUS!!!!!!!

                                        *blinks* Vitus as in Vitus Litold? Wow, excellent, long time due.

                                        Seems like just yesterday that he was beating the stuffing out of me
                                        (and just about everyone else) back in the Barony of the Flame. (I
                                        moved away about 5 years ago). Heck of a fighter, never let up on
                                        anyone, but he was always encouraging.

                                        I ought to scan in that newsletter he did about fighting. EDGES,
                                        FLANGES & POINTS: A Newsletter for the Brain-Damaged
                                        Stickjock...heh. Decent articles and his cartoons were something to
                                        behold.

                                        --Tacye
                                        once known as Maria Katerina von Adlerhof
                                      • Apollonia Margherita
                                        Vivat, Vitus! Apollonia
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jul 1, 2002
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                                          Vivat, Vitus!
                                           
                                          Apollonia
                                        • Gwendoline Rosamond
                                          I ve heard it s scheduled for Pennsic. Cheers, Gwendoline
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Jul 1, 2002
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                                            I've heard it's scheduled for Pennsic.

                                            Cheers,
                                            Gwendoline

                                            At 05:26 PM 7/1/2002 +0000, you wrote:
                                            >Does anyone know when and where the elevation is to be? At Pennsic?
                                            >I certainly would like to be in attendence!
                                            >
                                            >Baronne Chrestienne (Ciaran)
                                            >Aethelmearc
                                            >
                                            > > "Subject: Vitus
                                            > >
                                            > > To all that read these words,
                                            > > Know that the noble Vitus has
                                            > > been placed on vigil for the
                                            > > Order of Chivalry by Their
                                            > > most Royal Majesties Valharic
                                            > > and Alys.
                                            > >
                                            > > CONGRATULATIONS VITUS!!!!!!!
                                            > >
                                            > > Cheers,
                                            > > Gwendoline
                                          • Gwendoline Rosamond
                                            Well, I just heard from Drea and she has misplaced the article. : ( She promises to let me know as soon as she finds it. Cheers, Gwendoline
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Sep 11, 2002
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                                              Well, I just heard from Drea and she has misplaced the article. : ( She
                                              promises to let me know as soon as she finds it.

                                              Cheers,
                                              Gwendoline
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