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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Another silk question... what kind should I get?

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  • E House
    On second thought, I have. But it s been very boring (period, but boring) ...black and brown, or something similar. E ... From: Gwendoline Rosamond To:
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 27, 2002
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      On second thought, I have.  But it's been very boring (period, but boring) ...black and brown, or something similar.
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 12:55 AM
      Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Another silk question... what kind should I get?

      I didn't.  I said I saw a shot wool twill.  : )  I've seen very little silk
      twill for sale that wasn't herringbone...


      At 07:06 PM 3/27/2002 -0600, you wrote:
      >Organza dates to 1820, but it probably is pretty similar to some period
      >fabrics.  I'm glad to hear about the lampas... I've heard it mentioned as
      >period, but didn't really look into it.
      >I didn't mean to make it sound like shot silk was a weave, although WOW
      >I've never heard of or seen shot twill silk... sounds gorgeous.  Where did
      >you see it?
      >----- Original Message -----
      >From: <mailto:dameg@...>Gwendoline Rosamond
      >To: <mailto:Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com>Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
      >Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 12:54 PM
      >Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Another silk question... what kind should I get?
      >Just to add a couple of comments.
      >First, I don't think organza is OOP.  It is a simple tabby weave of fine
      >threads that behaves as if it has been starched.  To me, this sounds
      >exactly like the oversleeves here:
      >Also, we have lampas textiles that go way back (off-hand I can't think of a
      >starting date) but I do know that there were a number of Byzantine as well
      >as hispano-moresque lampas textiles.
      >One of the more common textiles you see as shot is taffeta - shot isn't a
      >weave structure per se.  It is using a warp and weft of different colours,
      >hence you can get shot cotton, silk, wool, linen... etc...   I saw a very
      >yummy shot wool blend the other day, it was a red-green twill I just wish
      >it didn't contain polyester and other icky stuff.
      >At 05:11 AM 3/27/2002 -0600, you wrote:
      > >Le sigh... I second the gripe.  There should be a website like that out
      > >there.  There are a few that review useful modern fabrics, but I haven't
      > >seen any that tell us what was used, when, where, and how, and what modern
      > >cloth is most similar to it.  A lot of times I can find out the answers
      > >to  specific questions like "Were wool/silk blends used in late 15th
      > >century Netherlands?" or "When was matelasse weave invented?" but I wind
      > >up spending hours or days doing it... it's so impractical, especially if
      > >I'm trying to decide between several fabrics or if I don't have any
      > >particular fabric in mind.
      > >
      > >(By the way, Stefan's Florilegium
      > ><<http://www.florilegium.org>http://www.florilegium.org><http://www.flori
      > legium.org>http://www.florilegium.org is one place I
      > >often find fabric answers, although it still takes forever to sort through
      > >all the information. However, that link does not have ALL the posts on it,
      > >and often a google search turns up posts from Stefan's Florilegium that
      > >weren't on that site.)
      > >
      > >Maybe we should start an authentic fabric group.  I'll collect a bunch of
      > >data and webpage it.
      > >
      > >As far as silk (mind you, most of this is summarizing other people's
      > >research, not mine, so I can't vouch for 100% accuracy--of course, when I
      > >research something, it's alllllllways 100% time machine accurate):
      > >  (Great=not only period, but people in period would have really really
      > > wanted it)
      > >
      > >Stay away from anything with slubs, unless it's on sale for $3 a yard and
      > >the slubs are almost invisble.
      > >You can make an argument for using noil, but I wouldn't bother; you can
      > >find stuff in the same price range that's better, stronger, and more
      > >period.  For that matter, even linen would be better.
      > >organza is definitely OOP.
      > >silk twill is period, but modern silk twill seems to be woven more
      > >loosely.  Though gabardine is technically a late victorian weave, it's
      > >probably closer to period silk twill and nowadays is rarely waterproofed
      > >like original gabardine. (And gabardine might be close to unpatterned
      > >samite, but I'm still trying to find out about that one--darn it, if there
      > >are this many archaeological finds of samite, there ought to be at least
      > >one picture and clear description out there.)
      > >Delustered satin (duchess satin/peau de soie) is good (and also might be
      > >very close to unpatterned samite).  However, at least in the 14th century,
      > >it wouldn't have been too common, and would have been used more by men
      > >than women.
      > >Silk damask in the appropriate pattern is great; I think lampas is also
      > >useable, but I'm not positive.
      > >Charmeuse seems to still be in debate; it might be useable, though the
      > >'cons' seem to have the majority at the moment. If I were to get it I'd go
      > >with the heaviest I could find and line it, or use it as a lining.  (When
      > >I do use it, I only use it as a lining. And as someone who's still trying
      > >to use up her bolt of charmeuse, the stuff is a hideous nuisance to cut
      > >out--it floats all over the place and stretches and it's hard to get an
      > >accurate line--and it's not terribly fun to sew.  Prewashing it helps a
      > >lot, but it's still annoying.)
      > >Almost any silk called broadcloth or with a plain weave is good.
      > >Taffeta is great, and was very popular, and is underused by reenactors.
      > >Shot silk ditto.
      > >China silk/habotai is probably period, but it's weak, and is probably best
      > >for lining or something that won't get a lot of wear.
      > >Chinese dupioni (looks like linen) is probably useable.
      > >Corded/ribbed silks are good.
      > >The jacquard weave is out of period, but if I found an affordable silk
      > >jacquard in a period pattern I'd probably buy it anyway.
      > >I still don't know for sure about crepe, but I'm guessing it's OOP... does
      > >anyone know?
      > >
      > >In general, look for smoothness, density, thickness, and weight.  The
      > >higher the ply number the better, and the higher the momme (mm) number the
      > >better.  Also in general, if silk was sold in your area, and the weave was
      > >known in your time, the fabric is useable.
      > >
      > >SIlk/wool blends (though it's hard to find them in plain colors or period
      > >patterns--most of it seems to be houndstooth or otherwise unuseable) are
      > >great, and depressingly underused.  You should all go buy some so that
      > >fabric merchants will start carrying more. Now!
      > >Silk/linen blends are also good.
      > >
      > ><<http://www.silkconnection.com/>http://www.silkconnection.com/>http://ww
      > w.silkconnection.com/
      > >Silk Connection has incredible prices, but not that great of a selection
      > >(and you have to dye it yourself). It's decent for taffeta, satin, a so-so
      > >twill, and habotai/china silk. It's a part of Jacquard Products, where you
      > >can get dyes to go with the silk.
      > ><<http://www.jacquardproducts.com/>http://www.jacquardproducts.com/>http:
      > //www.jacquardproducts.com/
      > >
      > ><http://www.exoticsilks.com/>http://www.exoticsilks.com/
      > >Exotic Silks (which I think is the same thing as Thai Silks, only targeted
      > >at the wholesale market--I believe you have to buy 17 yds?) has a great
      > >selection and lots of period silks, but the prices are kind of
      > >disgruntling after looking at Silk Connection. Last few times I checked,
      > >Thai Silks didn't have what I was looking for listed and Exotic Silks did,
      > >but if you called and asked they might be able to find it.  Both places
      > >now offer free brochure catalogs. Thai Silks is at:
      > ><<http://www.thaisilks.com/>http://www.thaisilks.com/>http://www.thaisilk
      > s.com/
      > >
      > ><http://www.designersfabric.com/>http://www.designersfabric.com/
      > >Designers Fabric occasionally has some good finds, although their
      > >descriptions are depressingly inadequate.
      > >
      > ><<http://www.trimfabric.com/>http://www.trimfabric.com/>http://www.trimfa
      > bric.com/
      > >Trim Fabric is also good, although their selection changes pretty
      > >often.  I'm planning on buying a gorgeous navy silk/wool blend gabardine
      > >from them, as soon as I save up for it/talk my husband into it.
      > >
      > >E
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