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Re: Medieval Tailoring book?

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  • kyberkiisu
    ... brought ... Kass, you brought tears into my eyes and made my day. Thank you for believing me! There are people in my group who believe that everything I
    Message 1 of 112 , Mar 1, 2002
      --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "kass1013" <historian@r...> wrote:
      > > I'm sorry, this is my opinion, YMMW.
      > Anneke, don't you DARE!
      > Don't EVER appologize for participating in a discussion. You
      > to the forum a TON of information that we hadn't even considered.
      > You taught everyone on this list something.
      > And don't say, "This is my opinion," as if that invalidates your
      > excellent research on the subject. Your opinion isn't just a
      > pipedream! It's backed by good, honest documentation.
      > If I hear you appologizing for enlightening us again, I'll put you
      > over my knee!
      > So there... =P

      Kass, you brought tears into my eyes and made my day. Thank you for
      believing me! There are people in my group who believe that
      everything I say is an unsubstantiated opinion even when I give them
      quotes or show pictures. They believe "experts" who feed them false
      information instead... <sigh> They don't give a d**n about
      authenticity or research and when I try to show them some real stuff
      I'm told 'Shush! Don't bother me!'.

      Sometimes it does feel that my opinion _is_ a pipedream. :( Thank you
      for putting things into perspective again. :) Authenticity matters,
      their opinion doesn't.

    • unclrashid
      ... of ... angle. ... that ... how ... a ... Ok, I ll add my 2 cents, also. I don t really want to argue about whether or not this is a flounce, because we
      Message 112 of 112 , Mar 6, 2002
        --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "xina007eu" <Christina_Lemke@h...> wrote:

        > none of these look like a proper flounce to me. Look how the folds
        > the skirt continue straight into the "flounce" part. Also look how
        > the "flounce" or band doesn't stand away from the skirt at an
        > It looks like this:
        > | | skirt
        > | |
        > | |
        > | |
        > | |
        > ----------------------
        > | | "flounce" or band
        > ----------------------
        > I'd expect a silhouette like
        > | | skirt
        > | |
        > | |
        > | |
        > | |
        > ----------------------
        > / \
        > / \ flounce
        > --------------------------
        > I don't see how one can achieve the first silhouette with a flounce
        > that is 1.4 or 1.5 times the circumference of the hem, assuming
        > the flounce is of the same or a similar fabric as the skirt, and
        > the folds of the skirt can continue straight into a flounce. Even
        > allowing for artistic license and non-naturalistic depiction, it is
        > bit odd.
        > Just my 2 cents ...

        Ok, I'll add my 2 cents, also. I don't really want to argue about
        whether or not this is a flounce, because we may just be arguing
        semantics here. I do however believe that it is very defintitely a
        piece of fabric gathered or pleated onto the bottom of the kirtle.

        Also, I sew Victorian and Edwardian gowns for a local dance company
        so I know a lot about how gathered fabric hangs on a skirt. Just
        because the fabric is gathered does not automatically mean the
        flounce must flair out. That is dependent on many factors, including
        the ratio of the gathering, the weight, the drape, and the stiffness
        of the fabric. While any flounce will flair when you walk or spin,
        wool gathered at a ratio of 1.5 usually is too heavy to flair out
        like your second drawing without a lot of support underneath. If all
        gathered fabric automatically flaired out just because it was
        gathered, Edwardian dressmakers would not have need to use all the
        types of petticoats they invented with ruffles and flounces of
        horsehair and organdy and crinoline to support the flounced skirts

        My guess would be that this was a way of repairing an old, muddy,
        worn-out hem. You may notice in the pictures that they frequently
        pull up the outer skirt when tramping about outside. I beleive they
        wore the "best" kirtle on the outside and the underlayer may have
        been an older kirtle in poor condition. I bet the hem got really
        worn out and soiled. They might cut off the bottom few inches to
        reomove the soiled fabric and then need to add more fabric on to
        lengthen it. I know that when you sew a straight piece of fabric
        onto the bottom of a flared skirt, it destroys the original line of
        the skirt, and may even not be wide enough to walk in. Slightly
        gathering the added strip of fabric would solve this problem.

        I thought at one time that these slight gathers were the result of
        the dress being hemmed inside out, with a fairly deep hem, but
        the "flounces" in these new pictures posted are definitely too deep
        to be just the hem.

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