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Re: 12th night dress?

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  • unclrashid@aol.com
    ... armscye ... with a ... exactly ... in ... she ... All the stuff I snipped here was an excellent description of the Houppelende sleeve issue! I would like
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 1, 2001
      --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., Ciorstan <ciorstan@m...> wrote:
      > Anyone have any comments???
      >
      > Yes. As a rule, Period Patterns are drafted with a high, tight
      armscye
      > that doesn't necessarily match up to the body of the garment even
      with a
      > LOT of easing, and their directions suck loudly (sorry, I'm a native
      > Caidiot, and most Period Patterns drive me deep into Native Dialect,
      > Your Rad Dude-ette-ness, ohmigawd!). Don't use the sleeve pieces
      exactly
      > as given, both PP and the Rocking Horse Farm houp patterns are off
      in
      > cut in the sleeve cap area.
      >
      > Without a photo, it's hard to describe the proper cut for the sleeve
      > (Baroness Cynthia's website is down right now and I don't recall if
      she
      > gives a diagram..........


      All the stuff I snipped here was an excellent description of the
      Houppelende sleeve issue!

      I would like to add my two cents worth also.... it is confusing
      enough that sometimes I just make a muslin mockup and cut it with
      about 12 inches extra length on the sleeve cap end to allow for
      adjustments. Then I pin fit the sleeve cap making sure the "bell"
      or "trumpet" portion of the sleeve is oriented correctly. (you have
      to sit down and use either a fork or pen to make sure the sleeve does
      not pull at some weird angle) This usually results in the sleeve cap
      being twisted about 30 degrees from where you would have expected
      it. This makes a pattern such that you have to cut you left and
      right sleeves with the pattern flipped over from one to the next.

      This technique works best with a rather full sleeve. It does not
      work quite so well with the type of sleeve that is very fitted on the
      upper arm and then flares out from the elbow.

      Rashid
    • Jeanne Harney
      ... From: ... But here s my question...the view of the sleeve I want to use is...open. The pattern calls it lined floor-length split tube
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 1, 2001
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <unclrashid@...>

        > All the stuff I snipped here was an excellent description of the
        > Houppelende sleeve issue!

        But here's my question...the view of the sleeve I want to use is...open.
        The pattern calls it "lined floor-length split tube sleeves, and wrist
        length undersleeves", and they mention that they "cheat" by putting in a
        fake undersleeve and a fake insert at the neck instead of making a
        proper underdress, which of course, I'm doing. So...would any of this
        be relevant?? I keep looking, and I've printed out Mistress Cynthia's
        entire Houppelande section, but she uses a completely different sleeve
        construction than I'm planning.

        > I would like to add my two cents worth also.... it is confusing
        > enough that sometimes I just make a muslin mockup and cut it with
        > about 12 inches extra length on the sleeve cap end to allow for
        > adjustments. Then I pin fit the sleeve cap making sure the "bell"
        > or "trumpet" portion of the sleeve is oriented correctly. (you have
        > to sit down and use either a fork or pen to make sure the sleeve does
        > not pull at some weird angle) This usually results in the sleeve cap
        > being twisted about 30 degrees from where you would have expected
        > it. This makes a pattern such that you have to cut you left and
        > right sleeves with the pattern flipped over from one to the next.

        Once again, the sleeves never touch my arm from maybe 1 or 2 inches over
        the actual shoulder...and the underdress is fine. I have 2 from the
        design I'm using.

        Also...I found Ron's fabric today. He's gonna be gorgeous. I'm making
        him a "pseudo-period", or maybe it's period, but I haven't done any
        research, though he's bought a coat/del/thingie like this before at
        Pennsic. Basically like an open calf-length del, without the flap that
        wraps over and hooks diagonally on the front (doesn't tie or close at
        all) in a black satin brocade with gold dragons on it, trimmed in gold
        satin at cuffs, collar, and down the front opening, with the same gold
        satin pants and a black satin knee-length tunic. He likes the look, and
        if I can get him into ANYTHING besides a small kilt, I feel
        fortunate!!!

        Jeanne
        who has enough trouble getting Ron to play, especially because if he
        can't wear the small kilt he wants to be a grubby peasant. This is the
        first time in 4 years he's agreed to ANYTHING resembling nice garb.
      • Ariane Helou
        ... Oooooh....that explains it!! When I was working on my big fancy dress last month, I used (among several other references) the Period Patterns Elizabethan.
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 3, 2001
          Ciorstan wrote:
          >As a rule, Period Patterns are drafted with a high, tight armscye
          >that doesn't necessarily match up to the body of the garment even with a
          >LOT of easing,

          Oooooh....that explains it!! When I was working on my big fancy dress last
          month, I used (among several other references) the Period Patterns
          Elizabethan. I recycled a perfectly-fitting bodice from an old dress, but
          cut the sleeve pieces from the pattern; they were significantly smaller
          than the armscye, and though I got them sewn in nicely, when I tried them
          on I found that they were vastly too tight, and there were several
          directions in which I couldn't move my arms! :-( I'm glad to know it's the
          pattern's fault, not my own incompetence in sewing (well maybe a little of
          that too...) ;-)

          >and their directions suck loudly (sorry, I'm a native
          >Caidiot,

          LOL!!! I've never heard that before :-) Though I usually reside in the
          West, my permanent home is in the Barony of the Angels - does that make me
          a Caidiot too? <g>

          Vittoria
          (back to studying, Despina, I promise! your pictures are very cool, by the way)
        • Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil
          ... Glad you re studying. *wink* Thanks for the compliment. Smiles, Despina
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 3, 2001
            At 09:53 AM 12/3/2001 -0800, you wrote:
            >Vittoria
            >(back to studying, Despina, I promise! your pictures are very cool, by
            >the way)

            Glad you're studying. *wink* Thanks for the compliment.

            Smiles,
            Despina
          • Guernen Cimarguid
            don t know why, but I just keep reading the title on this thread as 12th (century) night-dress... maybe I m tired? ;-) Guernen
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 3, 2001
              don't know why, but I just keep reading the title on this thread as
              12th (century) night-dress...

              maybe I'm tired? ;-)

              Guernen
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