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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: 12th night dress?

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  • Zohra Rawling
    --On Saturday, December 1, 2001 3:42 AM -0500 Jeanne Harney ... then we will both have gold underdresses ^_^ *snicker* we ll be cute Ysabella
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 1, 2001
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      --On Saturday, December 1, 2001 3:42 AM -0500 Jeanne Harney
      <jeanne@...> wrote:

      > I'm thinking about making a black velvet sideless to go over the same
      > underdress, but then again, I got this GORGEOUS gold fabric for the
      > underdress today, and may want to save it for evening too. I'm kind of
      > embarrassed...I killed polyesters for this fabric, which is something I
      > never do, but it was what I wanted.


      then we will both have gold underdresses

      ^_^

      *snicker*

      we'll be cute


      Ysabella
    • unclrashid@aol.com
      ... totally ... has ... it has ... off ... the ... For donut & coxcomb see Cynthias articles on Mens & Womens Stuffed roll hats: http://www.virtue.to/articles/
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 1, 2001
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Jeanne Harney" <jeanne@p...> wrote:
        > Rashid chimed in with:
        > >This sounds wonderful! But I hope you won't forget the hat! No
        > >houppelande like this would be complete without some type of
        totally
        > >outrageous hat! I recommend an extra big version of the "donut &
        > >coxcomb" hat.
        >
        > Well, I kind of have to...since I'm the only one in the Barony who
        has
        > worn any hat, and now I have to teach them about hats, and I know
        it has
        > to be BIG to balance out the BIG dress. I don't think I can pull
        off
        > the hat Mistress Cynthia wore...can you send me a pic or a URL for
        the
        > donut and coxcomb?

        For donut & coxcomb see Cynthias articles on Mens & Womens Stuffed
        roll hats:

        http://www.virtue.to/articles/

        Cynthia seperates the men's & women's, but if you look at a lot of
        pictures, you will find that the women also wore a lot of the same
        styles as the men. But there were some styles that were for women
        only, which the men never wore, so the way she has them seperated
        makes sense from that perspective.

        Rashid
      • unclrashid@aol.com
        ... armscye ... with a ... exactly ... in ... she ... All the stuff I snipped here was an excellent description of the Houppelende sleeve issue! I would like
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 1, 2001
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          --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., Ciorstan <ciorstan@m...> wrote:
          > Anyone have any comments???
          >
          > Yes. As a rule, Period Patterns are drafted with a high, tight
          armscye
          > that doesn't necessarily match up to the body of the garment even
          with a
          > LOT of easing, and their directions suck loudly (sorry, I'm a native
          > Caidiot, and most Period Patterns drive me deep into Native Dialect,
          > Your Rad Dude-ette-ness, ohmigawd!). Don't use the sleeve pieces
          exactly
          > as given, both PP and the Rocking Horse Farm houp patterns are off
          in
          > cut in the sleeve cap area.
          >
          > Without a photo, it's hard to describe the proper cut for the sleeve
          > (Baroness Cynthia's website is down right now and I don't recall if
          she
          > gives a diagram..........


          All the stuff I snipped here was an excellent description of the
          Houppelende sleeve issue!

          I would like to add my two cents worth also.... it is confusing
          enough that sometimes I just make a muslin mockup and cut it with
          about 12 inches extra length on the sleeve cap end to allow for
          adjustments. Then I pin fit the sleeve cap making sure the "bell"
          or "trumpet" portion of the sleeve is oriented correctly. (you have
          to sit down and use either a fork or pen to make sure the sleeve does
          not pull at some weird angle) This usually results in the sleeve cap
          being twisted about 30 degrees from where you would have expected
          it. This makes a pattern such that you have to cut you left and
          right sleeves with the pattern flipped over from one to the next.

          This technique works best with a rather full sleeve. It does not
          work quite so well with the type of sleeve that is very fitted on the
          upper arm and then flares out from the elbow.

          Rashid
        • Jeanne Harney
          ... From: ... But here s my question...the view of the sleeve I want to use is...open. The pattern calls it lined floor-length split tube
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 1, 2001
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <unclrashid@...>

            > All the stuff I snipped here was an excellent description of the
            > Houppelende sleeve issue!

            But here's my question...the view of the sleeve I want to use is...open.
            The pattern calls it "lined floor-length split tube sleeves, and wrist
            length undersleeves", and they mention that they "cheat" by putting in a
            fake undersleeve and a fake insert at the neck instead of making a
            proper underdress, which of course, I'm doing. So...would any of this
            be relevant?? I keep looking, and I've printed out Mistress Cynthia's
            entire Houppelande section, but she uses a completely different sleeve
            construction than I'm planning.

            > I would like to add my two cents worth also.... it is confusing
            > enough that sometimes I just make a muslin mockup and cut it with
            > about 12 inches extra length on the sleeve cap end to allow for
            > adjustments. Then I pin fit the sleeve cap making sure the "bell"
            > or "trumpet" portion of the sleeve is oriented correctly. (you have
            > to sit down and use either a fork or pen to make sure the sleeve does
            > not pull at some weird angle) This usually results in the sleeve cap
            > being twisted about 30 degrees from where you would have expected
            > it. This makes a pattern such that you have to cut you left and
            > right sleeves with the pattern flipped over from one to the next.

            Once again, the sleeves never touch my arm from maybe 1 or 2 inches over
            the actual shoulder...and the underdress is fine. I have 2 from the
            design I'm using.

            Also...I found Ron's fabric today. He's gonna be gorgeous. I'm making
            him a "pseudo-period", or maybe it's period, but I haven't done any
            research, though he's bought a coat/del/thingie like this before at
            Pennsic. Basically like an open calf-length del, without the flap that
            wraps over and hooks diagonally on the front (doesn't tie or close at
            all) in a black satin brocade with gold dragons on it, trimmed in gold
            satin at cuffs, collar, and down the front opening, with the same gold
            satin pants and a black satin knee-length tunic. He likes the look, and
            if I can get him into ANYTHING besides a small kilt, I feel
            fortunate!!!

            Jeanne
            who has enough trouble getting Ron to play, especially because if he
            can't wear the small kilt he wants to be a grubby peasant. This is the
            first time in 4 years he's agreed to ANYTHING resembling nice garb.
          • Ariane Helou
            ... Oooooh....that explains it!! When I was working on my big fancy dress last month, I used (among several other references) the Period Patterns Elizabethan.
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 3, 2001
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              Ciorstan wrote:
              >As a rule, Period Patterns are drafted with a high, tight armscye
              >that doesn't necessarily match up to the body of the garment even with a
              >LOT of easing,

              Oooooh....that explains it!! When I was working on my big fancy dress last
              month, I used (among several other references) the Period Patterns
              Elizabethan. I recycled a perfectly-fitting bodice from an old dress, but
              cut the sleeve pieces from the pattern; they were significantly smaller
              than the armscye, and though I got them sewn in nicely, when I tried them
              on I found that they were vastly too tight, and there were several
              directions in which I couldn't move my arms! :-( I'm glad to know it's the
              pattern's fault, not my own incompetence in sewing (well maybe a little of
              that too...) ;-)

              >and their directions suck loudly (sorry, I'm a native
              >Caidiot,

              LOL!!! I've never heard that before :-) Though I usually reside in the
              West, my permanent home is in the Barony of the Angels - does that make me
              a Caidiot too? <g>

              Vittoria
              (back to studying, Despina, I promise! your pictures are very cool, by the way)
            • Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil
              ... Glad you re studying. *wink* Thanks for the compliment. Smiles, Despina
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 3, 2001
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                At 09:53 AM 12/3/2001 -0800, you wrote:
                >Vittoria
                >(back to studying, Despina, I promise! your pictures are very cool, by
                >the way)

                Glad you're studying. *wink* Thanks for the compliment.

                Smiles,
                Despina
              • Guernen Cimarguid
                don t know why, but I just keep reading the title on this thread as 12th (century) night-dress... maybe I m tired? ;-) Guernen
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 3, 2001
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                  don't know why, but I just keep reading the title on this thread as
                  12th (century) night-dress...

                  maybe I'm tired? ;-)

                  Guernen
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