Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Guards

Expand Messages
  • Ariane Helou
    So, we ve already kinda talked about those neat little strips of contrasting fabric used to decorate an article of clothing. I want to put some on my bodice,
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 8, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      So, we've already kinda talked about those neat little strips of
      contrasting fabric used to decorate an article of clothing. I want to put
      some on my bodice, and have seen several examples of this in
      portraiture. However, those paintings only show the *front* of the
      bodices; is that the only place the guards would have been put, or would
      they have continued around the back and sides?

      Thanks for any help!

      Vittoria the slightly perplexed
    • Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
      ... Ah. Have you access to Patterns of Fashion? Eleanora s gown shows back guards. In her case, they follow the side back seam going on a diagonal line
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 11, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        At 10:23 PM 11/8/2001 -0800, you wrote:
        >So, we've already kinda talked about those neat little strips of
        >contrasting fabric used to decorate an article of clothing. I want to put
        >some on my bodice, and have seen several examples of this in
        >portraiture. However, those paintings only show the *front* of the
        >bodices; is that the only place the guards would have been put, or would
        >they have continued around the back and sides?

        Ah. Have you access to "Patterns of Fashion?" Eleanora's gown shows back
        guards. In her case, they follow the "side back" seam going on a diagonal
        line from the shoulders to the center back. Sometimes I add one across the
        top of the back like you have in the front, sometimes I don't. They seem
        to used in a couple of different ways, which I'm sure in part depended on
        how much of the guards you had or could commission...

        Cheers,
        Gwendoline
      • Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil
        ... Why are they called guards? What are the guarding? (I m serious here). Thanks, Despina
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 12, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          At 03:27 PM 11/11/2001 -0600, you wrote:
          Have you access to "Patterns of Fashion?"  Eleanora's gown shows back
          guards.  In her case, they follow the "side back" seam going on a diagonal
          line from the shoulders to the center back.  Sometimes I add one across the
          top of the back like you have in the front, sometimes I don't.  They seem
          to used in a couple of different ways, which I'm sure in part depended on
          how much of the guards you had or could commission...

          Why are they called guards?  What are the guarding?  (I'm serious here).

          Thanks,
          Despina

        • rowengr@hotmail.com
          ... here). ... Hmm... just conjecture, but I could see that the ones edging the hem of a skirt could be guarding the main body of the skirt from the dirt of
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 12, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" <aheilvei@u...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Why are they called guards? What are the guarding? (I'm serious
            here).
            >

            Hmm... just conjecture, but I could see that the ones edging the hem
            of a skirt could be "guarding" the main body of the skirt from the
            dirt of the streets?

            I'm not sure about the bodice ones, though.

            Rowen
          • Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil
            ... Good theory, but I m not convinced.... consider that Gwen said it is a good way to show off a more expensive piece of fabric and she also said something
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 12, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
               
              > Why are they called guards?  What are the guarding?  (I'm serious here).

              Hmm...  just conjecture, but I could see that the ones edging the hem of a skirt could be "guarding" the main body of the skirt from the dirt of the streets?

              I'm not sure about the bodice ones, though.

              Good theory, but I'm not convinced.... consider that Gwen said it is a good way to show off a more expensive piece of fabric and she also said something about commissioning them..... makes me think that if the pieces are that expensive, I wouldn't want them getting dirty like that.  Also, she said that they could be transferred to other gowns later... also making me think I wouldn't want them to get dirty.  So I don't think they were guarding from dirt.......

              Smiles,
              Despina
            • rowengr@hotmail.com
              ... a good ... pieces ... Also, ... making ... were ... Well, scratch that one.... Were they always made of better stuffs? Could they originally have been
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 12, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" <aheilvei@u...>
                wrote:
                > Good theory, but I'm not convinced.... consider that Gwen said it is
                a good
                > way to show off a more expensive piece of fabric and she also said
                > something about commissioning them..... makes me think that if the
                pieces
                > are that expensive, I wouldn't want them getting dirty like that.
                Also,
                > she said that they could be transferred to other gowns later... also
                making
                > me think I wouldn't want them to get dirty. So I don't think they
                were
                > guarding from dirt.......
                >

                Well, scratch that one.... Were they always made of better stuffs?
                Could they originally have been something that used to actually
                "guard" and then got fancier? (I'm just flailing around here, trying
                to stir up an idea. <g>)

                It would be nice to make an embroidered set - they'd be easier to
                carry about and work on then embroidering directly on the bodice.
                (Also easier to move to the new garment eventually, which was probably
                part of the idea.)

                Authenticity-wise, would good quality trim make reasonable guards?
                This is - I hope - less of a no-brainer than it might appear. I've
                noticed a sort of anti-trim movement in some areas, and heard a
                certain amount of "trim isn't period, only embroidery / beading is"
                (loosely - not in exactly those words.) Oh - to forstall the when /
                where in "period" question, I believe the intent was toward 15th/16th
                C western Europe.

                What do folk think on that?

                Rowen
              • Laurie Hupman
                Well, here s what the OED has to say: 11. a. An ornamental border or trimming on a garment. Obs. exc. Hist. or arch. (The original notion may have been that of
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 12, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  Well, here's what the OED has to say:

                  11. a. An ornamental border or trimming on a
                  garment. Obs. exc. Hist. or arch.
                  (The original notion may have been that of a binding
                  to keep the edge of the cloth from fraying.)

                  a1529 SKELTON Mann. World 9 So many gardes worne,
                  Jagged and al to-torne..Sawe I never. 1535 COVERDALE
                  Num. xv. 38 Speake to
                  the children of Israel & saye vnto them yt they make
                  them gardes vpon ye quarters of their garmentes. c1550
                  Disc. Common Weal Eng.
                  (1893) 83 When oure gentlemen went simply and oure
                  servingemen plainly, with out cut or garde, bearinge
                  the hevie sworde and bucler, on
                  theire thighes, in steade of cuttes and gardes, and
                  light daunsinge swordes. 1601 HOLLAND Pliny II. 459 A
                  Senatour was distinguisht from
                  the Gentlemen..by his coat embrodered with broad gards
                  and studs of purple. 1603 Const. & Canons Eccl. lxxiv,
                  Priests' Cloaks, without
                  gards, welts, long Buttons, or cuts. 1610 Histrio-m.
                  III. 248 Out on these velvet gards, and black-lac'd
                  sleeves. 1631 E. JORDEN Nat. Bathes
                  Ded. (1669) 4 A plain sute of our Country Cloath,
                  without welt or gard. 1637 DAVENANT Brit. Triumph.
                  Dram. Wks. 1872 II. 267 A young
                  man in a rich habit down to his knees with a large
                  guard of purple about the skirt. 1707 CHAMBERLAYNE St.
                  Gt. Brit. III. iii. 275 He [a
                  Baron] hath two Guards or Doublings on his Mantle.
                  1766 PORNY Heraldry Gloss. (1777), Guard, term used by
                  some Heralds to signify the
                  Doubling of the Mantle of the Nobility.


                  Rose :)

                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Find a job, post your resume.
                  http://careers.yahoo.com
                • Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
                  ... I m not really sure frankly. But in the case of the ones around the bottom of the skirt than can be used to protect the hem. That might be how they
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 12, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    At 08:25 AM 11/12/2001 -0600, you wrote:
                    >At 03:27 PM 11/11/2001 -0600, you wrote:
                    >>Have you access to "Patterns of Fashion?" Eleanora's gown shows back
                    >>guards. In her case, they follow the "side back" seam going on a diagonal
                    >>line from the shoulders to the center back. Sometimes I add one across the
                    >>top of the back like you have in the front, sometimes I don't. They seem
                    >>to used in a couple of different ways, which I'm sure in part depended on
                    >>how much of the guards you had or could commission...
                    >
                    >Why are they called guards? What are the guarding? (I'm serious here).
                    >
                    >Thanks,
                    >Despina

                    I'm not really sure frankly. But in the case of the ones around the bottom
                    of the skirt than can be used to protect the hem. That might be how they
                    started and then developed into something of a fashion statement and
                    started getting used elsewhere on the gown. Just a stab in the dark
                    really...because frankly I never really thought about it.

                    Cheers,
                    Gwendoline
                  • Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
                    ... Yup. Completely depends on the trim of course but I use trim more often than not. Well, actually I tend to use plain velvet or satin ribbon on my middle
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 12, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      At 03:42 PM 11/12/2001 +0000, you wrote:
                      >--- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" <aheilvei@u...>
                      >wrote:
                      > > Good theory, but I'm not convinced.... consider that Gwen said it is
                      >a good
                      > > way to show off a more expensive piece of fabric and she also said
                      > > something about commissioning them..... makes me think that if the
                      >pieces
                      > > are that expensive, I wouldn't want them getting dirty like that.
                      >Also,
                      > > she said that they could be transferred to other gowns later... also
                      >making
                      > > me think I wouldn't want them to get dirty. So I don't think they
                      >were
                      > > guarding from dirt.......
                      > >
                      >
                      >Well, scratch that one.... Were they always made of better stuffs?
                      >Could they originally have been something that used to actually
                      >"guard" and then got fancier? (I'm just flailing around here, trying
                      >to stir up an idea. <g>)
                      >
                      >It would be nice to make an embroidered set - they'd be easier to
                      >carry about and work on then embroidering directly on the bodice.
                      >(Also easier to move to the new garment eventually, which was probably
                      >part of the idea.)
                      >
                      >Authenticity-wise, would good quality trim make reasonable guards?
                      >This is - I hope - less of a no-brainer than it might appear. I've
                      >noticed a sort of anti-trim movement in some areas, and heard a
                      >certain amount of "trim isn't period, only embroidery / beading is"
                      >(loosely - not in exactly those words.) Oh - to forstall the when /
                      >where in "period" question, I believe the intent was toward 15th/16th
                      >C western Europe.

                      Yup. Completely depends on the trim of course but I use trim more often
                      than not. Well, actually I tend to use plain velvet or satin ribbon on my
                      "middle class" stuff. My student used an upholstery "lace" laid over
                      velvet ribbon to great effect on this:
                      http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/silk.html

                      Cheers,
                      Gwendoline
                    • Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil
                      ... It s gorgeous Gwen! Wow! Despina
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 13, 2001
                      • 0 Attachment
                        At 08:12 PM 11/12/2001 -0600, you wrote:
                        Yup.  Completely depends on the trim of course but I use trim more often
                        than not. Well, actually I tend to use plain velvet or satin ribbon on my
                        "middle class" stuff.  My student used an upholstery "lace" laid over
                        velvet ribbon to great effect on this:
                        http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/silk.html

                        It's gorgeous Gwen!  Wow!

                        Despina
                      • Steven Proctor
                        I am in complete agreement with Despina. Wow. Where did she get that fabric. I m in love...... Ta Morgan ... -- Carlotta lay on the mound of pillows strewn
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 13, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I am in complete agreement with Despina. Wow.

                          Where did she get that fabric. I'm in love......

                          Ta

                          Morgan

                          "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" wrote:

                          > At 08:12 PM 11/12/2001 -0600, you wrote:
                          >
                          >> Yup. Completely depends on the trim of course but I use trim more
                          >> often
                          >> than not. Well, actually I tend to use plain velvet or satin ribbon
                          >> on my
                          >> "middle class" stuff. My student used an upholstery "lace" laid
                          >> over
                          >> velvet ribbon to great effect on this:
                          >> http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/silk.html
                          >
                          >
                          > It's gorgeous Gwen! Wow!
                          >
                          > Despina

                          --
                          Carlotta lay on the mound of pillows strewn about the floor of the
                          poolhouse, back arched and head thrown back, screaming the name of the
                          only man who had ever taken her to the pinnacle of unbridled ecstasy,
                          the only man with whom she had experienced the overwhelming rush of
                          carnal electricity - unfortunately not the man who now peered up at her
                          from the tangle of hastily discarded clothing with the sullen and
                          quizzical visage of a calf looking at a new gate.
                        • rowengr@hotmail.com
                          ... often ... on my ... over ... Seriously gorgeous effect, I d say. Amazing fabric, too. I was thinking about a particular trim, but I don t have a picture
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 13, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., Danielle Nunn-Weinberg <dannw@m...> wrote:
                            > >Authenticity-wise, would good quality trim make reasonable guards?

                            > Yup. Completely depends on the trim of course but I use trim more
                            often
                            > than not. Well, actually I tend to use plain velvet or satin ribbon
                            on my
                            > "middle class" stuff. My student used an upholstery "lace" laid
                            over
                            > velvet ribbon to great effect on this:
                            > http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/silk.html

                            Seriously gorgeous effect, I'd say. Amazing fabric, too.

                            I was thinking about a particular trim, but I don't have a picture of
                            it, and Calontir Trim doesn't stock it.

                            Rowen
                          • Lisa
                            ... /costume/period/silk.html ... I ve just had a stroll through the site, and am very impressed with all her stuff. Has she shown the site to Drea? I m sure
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 13, 2001
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" <aheilvei@u...>
                              >
                              ><http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/silk.html>http://www.faucet.net
                              /costume/period/silk.html
                              >

                              I've just had a stroll through the site, and am very impressed with
                              all her stuff. Has she shown the site to Drea? I'm sure she'd be
                              interested....

                              Lisa
                            • Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
                              ... Isn t it just! She was a perfect doll at Coronet too with people constantly tugging at her gown to get a closer look. If you haven t met her yet, she is
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 13, 2001
                              • 0 Attachment
                                At 08:39 AM 11/13/2001 -0600, you wrote:
                                >At 08:12 PM 11/12/2001 -0600, you wrote:
                                >>Yup. Completely depends on the trim of course but I use trim more often
                                >>than not. Well, actually I tend to use plain velvet or satin ribbon on my
                                >>"middle class" stuff. My student used an upholstery "lace" laid over
                                >>velvet ribbon to great effect on this:
                                >><http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/silk.html>http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/silk.html
                                >
                                >It's gorgeous Gwen! Wow!

                                Isn't it just! She was a perfect doll at Coronet too with people
                                constantly tugging at her gown to get a closer look. If you haven't met
                                her yet, she is an absolute sweetheart!

                                Cheers,
                                Gwendoline
                              • Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
                                She got the fabric at Calico Corners she told me. Apparently it was on sale for something like $27 a yard! Which is fantastic for silk brocade... Cheers,
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 13, 2001
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  She got the fabric at "Calico Corners" she told me. Apparently it was on
                                  sale for something like $27 a yard! Which is fantastic for silk brocade...

                                  Cheers,
                                  Gwendoline

                                  At 10:06 AM 11/13/2001 -0500, you wrote:
                                  >I am in complete agreement with Despina. Wow.
                                  >
                                  >Where did she get that fabric. I'm in love......
                                  >
                                  >Ta
                                  >
                                  >Morgan
                                  >
                                  >"Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > At 08:12 PM 11/12/2001 -0600, you wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >> Yup. Completely depends on the trim of course but I use trim more
                                  > >> often
                                  > >> than not. Well, actually I tend to use plain velvet or satin ribbon
                                  > >> on my
                                  > >> "middle class" stuff. My student used an upholstery "lace" laid
                                  > >> over
                                  > >> velvet ribbon to great effect on this:
                                  > >> http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/silk.html
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > It's gorgeous Gwen! Wow!
                                  > >
                                  > > Despina
                                  >
                                  >--
                                  >Carlotta lay on the mound of pillows strewn about the floor of the
                                  >poolhouse, back arched and head thrown back, screaming the name of the
                                  >only man who had ever taken her to the pinnacle of unbridled ecstasy,
                                  >the only man with whom she had experienced the overwhelming rush of
                                  >carnal electricity - unfortunately not the man who now peered up at her
                                  >from the tangle of hastily discarded clothing with the sullen and
                                  >quizzical visage of a calf looking at a new gate.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >----------------------------------------------------
                                  >This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
                                  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  >authentic_SCA-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                • Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
                                  ... Drea has her site linked to her own site. However, I got to her first tee hee. Cheers, Gwendoline
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 13, 2001
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    At 03:33 PM 11/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
                                    >--- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" <aheilvei@u...>
                                    > >
                                    > ><http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/silk.html>http://www.faucet.net
                                    >/costume/period/silk.html
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >I've just had a stroll through the site, and am very impressed with
                                    >all her stuff. Has she shown the site to Drea? I'm sure she'd be
                                    >interested....
                                    >
                                    >Lisa

                                    Drea has her site linked to her own site. However, I got to her first tee
                                    hee. <G>

                                    Cheers,
                                    Gwendoline
                                  • Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil
                                    ... Not yet, but I m sure I will if she hangs around you. *grin* Smiles, Despina
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Nov 13, 2001
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      >It's gorgeous Gwen!  Wow!

                                      Isn't it just!  She was a perfect doll at Coronet too with people
                                      constantly tugging at her gown to get a closer look.  If you haven't met
                                      her yet, she is an absolute sweetheart!

                                      Not yet, but I'm sure I will if she hangs around you. *grin*

                                      Smiles,
                                      Despina
                                    • Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
                                      ... As I said, in my opinion, depending on the trim, trim is fine. Personally I would avoid one with lots of lurex but a nice woven one would be good...
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Nov 13, 2001
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        At 03:28 PM 11/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
                                        >--- In Authentic_SCA@y..., Danielle Nunn-Weinberg <dannw@m...> wrote:
                                        > > >Authenticity-wise, would good quality trim make reasonable guards?
                                        >
                                        > > Yup. Completely depends on the trim of course but I use trim more
                                        >often
                                        > > than not. Well, actually I tend to use plain velvet or satin ribbon
                                        >on my
                                        > > "middle class" stuff. My student used an upholstery "lace" laid
                                        >over
                                        > > velvet ribbon to great effect on this:
                                        > > http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/silk.html
                                        >
                                        >Seriously gorgeous effect, I'd say. Amazing fabric, too.
                                        >
                                        >I was thinking about a particular trim, but I don't have a picture of
                                        >it, and Calontir Trim doesn't stock it.
                                        >
                                        >Rowen


                                        As I said, in my opinion, depending on the trim, trim is fine. Personally
                                        I would avoid one with lots of lurex but a nice woven one would be good...

                                        Cheers,
                                        Gwendoline
                                      • Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
                                        ... I m sure you will. : ) Actually she s from Milwaukee so you might run into her without me in tow. : ) Cheers, Gwendoline
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Nov 14, 2001
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          At 04:27 PM 11/13/2001 -0600, you wrote:
                                          >> >It's gorgeous Gwen! Wow!
                                          >>
                                          >>Isn't it just! She was a perfect doll at Coronet too with people
                                          >>constantly tugging at her gown to get a closer look. If you haven't met
                                          >>her yet, she is an absolute sweetheart!
                                          >
                                          >Not yet, but I'm sure I will if she hangs around you. *grin*

                                          I'm sure you will. : ) Actually she's from Milwaukee so you might run into
                                          her without me in tow. : )

                                          Cheers,
                                          Gwendoline
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.