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Re: Theology help

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  • s_krasley@recordtrak.com
    You folks are all just wonderful, So many sources to look at. Thank-you. As I hit more specfic passages I may again ask your help. I am arguing with my husband
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 28, 2001
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      You folks are all just wonderful, So many sources to look at.
      Thank-you.
      As I hit more specfic passages I may again ask your help.
      I am arguing with my husband and several others that translations
      have been lost and or changed.
      I was hoping to site several different texts, using the same passage
      to prove my point. One in the group is a hard line Baptist that
      thinks "HIS" version of the bible is the only correct one.
      I have to find out which one he is using to make a complete
      comparison but I do know it's one of the more modern versions, like
      "Good News for Modern Man"
      Some day I'll learn to keep my mouth shut when they start to argue
      religion. Or worse they argue Creation vs Evolution.

      - Brynn

      --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@i...> wrote:
      > s_krasley@r... wrote:
      >
      > > Can anyone of you theology students help me out.
      > > I'm looking for a copy of a bible, of course it has to be
      > > one that is older then the King James version.
      > > What I'm saying is what is the oldest version of the Bible
      > > available? Either on the Web or for sale.
      > > I am compairing passages from one Bible to another, looking to
      > > see how much the interpretation has changed the meaning of things.
      > > Believe this is not my usual course of study so any help or
      direction
      > > is greatly appreciated.
      >
      > Heck, that's not hard. One of the advantages of being Eastern
      Orthodox is
      > that we get to rely on Greek (first generational) texts and
      translations
      > without having to weed through one language piggybacked on another's
      > translation...
      >
      > Among other books I have here is a four volume set on the Gospels
      that
      > interlinearly cites every extant variant on early Greek texts (
      dozens of
      > sources).
      >
      > What specifically are you looking for?
      >
      > http://mdavies.for.ilstu.edu/bible/ is useful perhaps for online
      playing.
      >
      > Effingham
    • Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil
      ... OOPS. I m not sure if they put a translation in with the facsimile. Sorry about that. Something you can do is to get a copy of the Leningrad Codex and
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 28, 2001
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        At 08:22 PM 9/28/2001 +0000, you wrote:
        Yes That is what I'm looking for.  Thanks.
        Now will have to check out Library loan.

        OOPS.  I'm not sure if they put a translation in with the facsimile.  Sorry about that.  Something you can do is to get a copy of the Leningrad Codex and compare it with something such as, say the Jerusalem Bible for the writing to see how similar it is and go with the translation there.  Or, you could get a Brown, Driver, and Briggs English Hebrew Lexicon as well as the companion book (can't remember the title but it's large and the cover is yellow paperback).  The second book lists each word in the Bible and it's meaning, so you can kind of do your own translation checking again against the Leningrad Codex, but it's not foolproof.

        Smiles,
        Despina
      • s_krasley@recordtrak.com
        Understood. I will compare them all. What Language is the Leningrad Codex in and the Jerusalem Bible? Just to be sure, because sometimes I m so dense. _ Brynn
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 28, 2001
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          Understood. I will compare them all.
          What Language is the Leningrad Codex in and the Jerusalem Bible?
          Just to be sure, because sometimes I'm so dense.

          _ Brynn

          --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" <aheilvei@u...>
          wrote:
          > At 08:22 PM 9/28/2001 +0000, you wrote:
          > >Yes That is what I'm looking for. Thanks.
          > >Now will have to check out Library loan.
          >
          > OOPS. I'm not sure if they put a translation in with the
          facsimile. Sorry
          > about that. Something you can do is to get a copy of the Leningrad
          Codex
          > and compare it with something such as, say the Jerusalem Bible for
          the
          > writing to see how similar it is and go with the translation
          there. Or,
          > you could get a Brown, Driver, and Briggs English Hebrew Lexicon as
          well as
          > the companion book (can't remember the title but it's large and the
          cover
          > is yellow paperback). The second book lists each word in the Bible
          and
          > it's meaning, so you can kind of do your own translation checking
          again
          > against the Leningrad Codex, but it's not foolproof.
          >
          > Smiles,
          > Despina
        • s_krasley@recordtrak.com
          Effingham you are evil...I like you. - Brynn ... same OT ... Esdras,
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 28, 2001
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            Effingham you are evil...I like you.

            - Brynn


            >
            > Ask him, if you want to see his head explode, if his Bible has the
            same OT
            > that Jesus and the Apostles quoted from, and if not, WHY not...
            >
            > (Hint: 95% chance it isn't, unless it contains Tobit, Sirach,
            Esdras,
            > Maccabees....)
            >
            > Effingham
          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... Ask him, if you want to see his head explode, if his Bible has the same OT that Jesus and the Apostles quoted from, and if not, WHY not... (Hint: 95%
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 28, 2001
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              s_krasley@... wrote:

              > You folks are all just wonderful, So many sources to look at.
              > Thank-you.
              > As I hit more specfic passages I may again ask your help.
              > I am arguing with my husband and several others that translations
              > have been lost and or changed.
              > I was hoping to site several different texts, using the same passage
              > to prove my point. One in the group is a hard line Baptist that
              > thinks "HIS" version of the bible is the only correct one.

              Ask him, if you want to see his head explode, if his Bible has the same OT
              that Jesus and the Apostles quoted from, and if not, WHY not...

              (Hint: 95% chance it isn't, unless it contains Tobit, Sirach, Esdras,
              Maccabees....)

              Effingham
            • Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil
              ... You re not dense, you just don t know the answer - totally different things. Leningrad Codex and Jerusalem Bible are both in Hebrew. As I said before,
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 28, 2001
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                At 08:41 PM 9/28/2001 +0000, you wrote:
                Understood. I will compare them all.
                What Language is the Leningrad Codex in and the Jerusalem Bible?
                Just to be sure, because sometimes I'm so dense.

                You're not dense, you just don't know the answer - totally different things.

                Leningrad Codex and Jerusalem Bible are both in Hebrew.  As I said before, there are fragments (some in Aramaic - still the legal language of the Jewish people - and some in Hebrew) that are older than the Leningrad Codex, but no complete manuscript of the bible.  The Jerusalem Bible is a modern bible put out with Hebrew on one page and English translation on the facing page.  I'll try to remember to look at the BDB yellow book and send you the title and ISBN.  It will probably be your most helpful tool in this search.

                Smiles and good weekend,
                Despina

              • Anthony J. Bryant
                ... Thank you... Then my work here is done! Effingham Up, up... and awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 28, 2001
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                  s_krasley@... wrote:

                  > Effingham you are evil...I like you.
                  >

                  Thank you...

                  <superman pose> Then my work here is done! </superman pose>


                  Effingham

                  Up, up... and awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
                • Christina_Lemke@hotmail.com
                  Hi Brynn, when you are looking at older translations (into Middle English, Early Modern English, Early Modern German etc.) you must be aware that the meaning
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 1, 2001
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                    Hi Brynn,

                    when you are looking at older translations (into Middle English,
                    Early Modern English, Early Modern German etc.) you must be aware
                    that the meaning of the words in the target language may have changed
                    over the centuries. Don't fall into the "New Criticism trap"!

                    Is there a specific passage you are looking at, or whose meaning you
                    want to investigate? Then your best starting point would be the
                    original text (Hebrew or Greek) compared in the oldest extant
                    manuscripts, plus an extensively annotated translation by an
                    excellent modern translator. Then compare with the Bishop's Bible,
                    Geneva Bible, etc.

                    Are you interested mostly in translations into English or would you
                    also be interested e.g. in Martin Luther's translation into German?
                    Although Luther's translation has been reworked and more modern
                    German translations exist, certain passages (e.g. Psalm 23) are kept
                    in Luther's translation in modern German Bibles (the Protestant ones
                    only, of course - the Catholic Bible is different). These passages
                    are usually formatted differently, e.g. in italic.

                    Best regards,

                    Christina

                    --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., s_krasley@r... wrote:
                    > Can anyone of you theology students help me out.
                    > I'm looking for a copy of a bible, of course it has to be
                    > one that is older then the King James version.
                    > What I'm saying is what is the oldest version of the Bible
                    > available? Either on the Web or for sale.
                    > I am compairing passages from one Bible to another, looking to
                    > see how much the interpretation has changed the meaning of things.
                    > Believe this is not my usual course of study so any help or
                    direction
                    > is greatly appreciated.
                    >
                    > - Brynn
                  • s_krasley@recordtrak.com
                    Thanks Christina, I ll remember that as I start my translations. Maybe what I will wind up doing is several translation from different sources to see how they
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 2, 2001
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                      Thanks Christina, I'll remember that as I start my translations.
                      Maybe what I will wind up doing is several translation from different
                      sources to see how they differ.

                      - Brynn

                      --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., Christina_Lemke@h... wrote:
                      > Hi Brynn,
                      >
                      > when you are looking at older translations (into Middle English,
                      > Early Modern English, Early Modern German etc.) you must be aware
                      > that the meaning of the words in the target language may have
                      changed
                      > over the centuries. Don't fall into the "New Criticism trap"!
                      >
                      > Is there a specific passage you are looking at, or whose meaning
                      you
                      > want to investigate? Then your best starting point would be the
                      > original text (Hebrew or Greek) compared in the oldest extant
                      > manuscripts, plus an extensively annotated translation by an
                      > excellent modern translator. Then compare with the Bishop's Bible,
                      > Geneva Bible, etc.
                      >
                      > Are you interested mostly in translations into English or would you
                      > also be interested e.g. in Martin Luther's translation into German?
                      > Although Luther's translation has been reworked and more modern
                      > German translations exist, certain passages (e.g. Psalm 23) are
                      kept
                      > in Luther's translation in modern German Bibles (the Protestant
                      ones
                      > only, of course - the Catholic Bible is different). These passages
                      > are usually formatted differently, e.g. in italic.
                      >
                      > Best regards,
                      >
                      > Christina
                      >
                      >
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