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Re: [Authentic_SCA] eBay item 1630226983 (Ends Sep-01-01 113739 PDT ) - REAL ...

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  • KAHLENR0SE@aol.com
    In a message dated 8/31/2001 9:15:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gedney1@iconn.net writes:
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 31, 2001
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      In a message dated 8/31/2001 9:15:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
      gedney1@... writes:

      << However. the use of sewn reinforced rope or cord grommets goes WAY back. >>
      Do I understand this correctly? Sort of an eyelet with cording beneath? Ive
      never seen that done in clothing. More....more...
      Kahlen du Coeur

      If you want to touch the past TOUCH A ROCK. If you want to touch the present
      TOUCH A ROSE. If you want to touch the future TOUCH A LIFE.......Unknown
    • Jeff Gedney
      ... back. ... Ive ... Yes the cording is laid up three times around and through the loop till it is twisted like rope, but instead of three strands twisted
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 31, 2001
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        > << However. the use of sewn reinforced rope or cord grommets goes WAY
        back. >>
        > Do I understand this correctly? Sort of an eyelet with cording beneath?
        Ive
        > never seen that done in clothing. More....more...

        Yes the cording is laid up three times around and through the loop till it
        is twisted like rope, but instead of three strands twisted together, one
        strand runs around three times.
        The ring is therefore is _very_ reinforcing, as it will not of itself pull
        out, but remain in the ring form until it is unlayed. the Stitching binds
        the cordage to the fabric and also enhances the inherent friction in the
        twisted cording by pressing on and preserving the twist.
        This was a common application, particualrly where the "bonnets" are lashed
        to the main body of a sail. A "bonnet" is a separate lower section of sail
        usually the lower third or the lower quarter of the actual sail, which is
        removed when the sail has to be "shortened" or made smaller in heavy winds.
        (the modern "reefing points" -- cords extending through or sewn to the
        sail, allowing the sail to be shortened -- are not period)

        Bonneting may be seen in some 12th century woodcuts.

        A corner of a sail was reinforced with a clew, which is a doubled thickness
        of sail at the corner, and then a layer of leather sewn in at the very
        corner, and that is then reinforced with a good tight grommeting. Then a
        clewrope is attatched, and to this are the halyards attatched. On larger
        ships there are mechanical advantages applied here attached to the
        clewropes, by means of "taykles' or arrangements of pulleys. The Clewropes
        are attatched as tightly as possible and untied only to be changed to
        reduce chafing and thus prolonging the clew.

        At the middles (and sometimes at the corners of very large sails), the clew
        is replaced by a cringle, which is a reinforced loop of rope sewn to the
        edge of the sail.

        Sometimes (often in period Tentage), the office of "grommet" was preformed
        by a tab of leather stoutly sewn over the hole, top and bottom, as
        reinforcement

        Grommets as reinforced throughholes in fabric are plainly period. I have
        lots of sources.

        Whether they were applied to fabric used in clothing I cannot say.
        I have not researched that aspect.
        But it makes sense to me that they might have been.


        Elias Gedney
        +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        "kono eisou wa nagasugi to omoimasu" - Basho Matsuo
        +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      • KAHLENR0SE@aol.com
        In a message dated 8/31/2001 10:49:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gedney1@iconn.net writes:
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 31, 2001
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          In a message dated 8/31/2001 10:49:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
          gedney1@... writes:

          << But it makes sense to me that they might have been.
          >>
          Me too, thanks for the explaination.
          Kahlen du Coeur

          If you want to touch the past TOUCH A ROCK. If you want to touch the present
          TOUCH A ROSE. If you want to touch the future TOUCH A LIFE.......Unknown
        • Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
          ... Well, in Arnold s PoF there are metal rings which are sewn over around the eyelet. Cheers, Gwendoline
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 31, 2001
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            At 09:23 AM 8/31/2001 -0400, you wrote:
            >In a message dated 8/31/2001 9:15:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
            >gedney1@... writes:
            >
            ><< However. the use of sewn reinforced rope or cord grommets goes WAY back. >>
            >Do I understand this correctly? Sort of an eyelet with cording beneath? Ive
            >never seen that done in clothing. More....more...
            >Kahlen du Coeur

            Well, in Arnold's PoF there are metal rings which are sewn over around the
            eyelet.

            Cheers,
            Gwendoline
          • Sunny Medlock
            ... WAY back. ... beneath? Ive ... around the ... There is ?!? In PoF?!? I have to dig it out of the box and inspect in more closely (again). Do you know of
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 31, 2001
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              > >gedney1@i... writes:
              > >
              > ><< However. the use of sewn reinforced rope or cord grommets goes
              WAY back.
              >>
              > >Do I understand this correctly? Sort of an eyelet with cording
              beneath? Ive
              > >never seen that done in clothing. More....more...
              > >Kahlen du Coeur
              >
              > Well, in Arnold's PoF there are metal rings which are sewn over
              around the
              > eyelet.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Gwendoline

              There is ?!? In PoF?!? I have to dig it out of the box and inspect
              in more closely (again). Do you know of any other evidence of that?
              I seen LOTS of metal rings used for the lacing, but not to reinforce
              eyelet holes in the fabric.

              Elisabetta
            • Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
              At 01:01 AM 9/1/2001 +0000, you wrote: ... Yup. Page 46. The Pfalszgrafin s corset. (ok. I can t spell.) : ) fig. 328. Cheers, Gwendoline
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 2 2:22 PM
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                At 01:01 AM 9/1/2001 +0000, you wrote:

                <snip>

                > > Well, in Arnold's PoF there are metal rings which are sewn over
                >around the
                > > eyelet.
                > >
                > > Cheers,
                > > Gwendoline
                >
                >There is ?!? In PoF?!? I have to dig it out of the box and inspect
                >in more closely (again). Do you know of any other evidence of that?
                >I seen LOTS of metal rings used for the lacing, but not to reinforce
                >eyelet holes in the fabric.
                >
                >Elisabetta

                Yup. Page 46. The Pfalszgrafin's corset. (ok. I can't spell.) : ) fig.
                328.

                Cheers,
                Gwendoline
              • Sunny Medlock
                ... that? I ve seen LOTS of metal rings used for the lacing, but not to reinforce eyelet holes in the fabric. ... spell.) : ) fig. 328. ... Ohmigosh! Do
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 2 9:38 PM
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                  > > > Well, in Arnold's PoF there are metal rings which are sewn over
                  > >around the eyelet.
                  > > >
                  > > > Cheers,
                  > > > Gwendoline
                  > >
                  > >There is ?!? In PoF?!? I have to dig it out of the box and inspect
                  > >in more closely (again). Do you know of any other evidence of
                  that? I've seen LOTS of metal rings used for the lacing, but not to
                  reinforce eyelet holes in the fabric.
                  > >
                  > >Elisabetta
                  >
                  > Yup. Page 46. The Pfalszgrafin's corset. (ok. I can't
                  spell.) : ) fig. 328.
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  > Gwendoline

                  Ohmigosh! Do you know how many times I have looked at that and never
                  noticed?!? I have the book, but I really haven't read through it
                  like I should since it's about 60-100 years too late and not Italy.
                  I just got it 'cause anyone who calls her/himself a costumer has to
                  have it. Have you seen that anywhere earlier? I am thinking that
                  would be very usefull on my husband's arming coat that I have to make
                  him... Any idea where I might find little rings like that? I have
                  been looking at soldered split rings, but I don't think they come big
                  or sturdy enough.

                  Elisabetta
                • Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
                  ... Off the top of my head - I don t know. However, try a hardware store for washers or I seem to remember something like them for drapery stuff. Personally,
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 2 9:43 PM
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                    At 04:38 AM 9/3/2001 +0000, you wrote:
                    > > Yup. Page 46. The Pfalszgrafin's corset. (ok. I can't
                    >spell.) : ) fig. 328.
                    > >
                    > > Cheers,
                    > > Gwendoline
                    >
                    >Ohmigosh! Do you know how many times I have looked at that and never
                    >noticed?!? I have the book, but I really haven't read through it
                    >like I should since it's about 60-100 years too late and not Italy.
                    >I just got it 'cause anyone who calls her/himself a costumer has to
                    >have it. Have you seen that anywhere earlier? I am thinking that
                    >would be very usefull on my husband's arming coat that I have to make
                    >him... Any idea where I might find little rings like that? I have
                    >been looking at soldered split rings, but I don't think they come big
                    >or sturdy enough.
                    >
                    >Elisabetta

                    Off the top of my head - I don't know. However, try a hardware store for
                    washers or I seem to remember something like them for drapery
                    stuff. Personally, I've never used the rings and found that whipstiched
                    eyelets on their own are plenty strong enough, even on a corset.

                    Cheers,
                    Gwendoline
                  • Sunny Medlock
                    ... big ... store for washers or I seem to remember something like them for drapery stuff. Personally, I ve never used the rings and found that whipstiched
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 2 10:09 PM
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                      ... Any idea where I might find little rings like that? I have
                      > >been looking at soldered split rings, but I don't think they come
                      big
                      > >or sturdy enough.
                      > >
                      > >Elisabetta
                      >
                      > Off the top of my head - I don't know. However, try a hardware
                      store for washers or I seem to remember something like them for
                      drapery stuff. Personally, I've never used the rings and found that
                      whipstiched eyelets on their own are plenty strong enough, even on a
                      corset.
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      > Gwendoline

                      Since I haven't done much handsewing yet, I still don't trust the
                      strength. Logic tells me that if tight corsets could be handsewn and
                      sturdy at the same time, then I can do it, but I've been brainwashed
                      by my sewing machine. :)

                      As far as drapery rings, I have only seen metal ones twice ever and
                      never small enough for this. I have thought about washers, but
                      haven't seen any that would work yet. I still have to look harder.
                      I have though about making my own, or bartering with a friend that
                      makes chainmaile for some soldered rings of that sort... Still
                      working on that one.

                      Thanks for the help.

                      Elisabetta
                    • Matthew Mitchell
                      I was hoping that some might be able to tell me if choker were ever worn in the world in sca time line? tsara The bare necked ... Matthew Mitchell | [to
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 2 10:17 PM
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                        I was hoping that some might be able to tell me if
                        choker were ever worn in the world in sca time line?
                        tsara The bare necked

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                      • ivinian@hotmail.com
                        I found small, 1/2 or 3/8 brass rings at Calico Corner this past weekend. They re not quite small enough, and they re a bit too thin compared to things I ve
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 3 6:18 AM
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                          I found small, 1/2" or 3/8" brass rings at Calico Corner this past
                          weekend. They're not quite small enough, and they're a bit too thin
                          compared to things I've seen, but they come pretty close. I've done
                          the doublet sleeves so far and DB is very happy with the look.

                          I bought 60 of them at like 5 cents each. As I checked out, I asked
                          the cashier, "So, officially-like, what ARE these rings for?" She
                          told me a lot of stuff about poufy valances and things.

                          Aoda

                          --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Sunny Medlock" <sunnyday78723@y...> wrote:
                          > ... Any idea where I might find little rings like that? I have
                          > > >been looking at soldered split rings, but I don't think they
                          come
                          > big
                          > > >or sturdy enough.
                          > > >
                          > > >Elisabetta
                          > >
                          > > Off the top of my head - I don't know. However, try a hardware
                          > store for washers or I seem to remember something like them for
                          > drapery stuff. Personally, I've never used the rings and found
                          that
                          > whipstiched eyelets on their own are plenty strong enough, even on
                          a
                          > corset.
                          > >
                          > > Cheers,
                          > > Gwendoline
                          >
                          > Since I haven't done much handsewing yet, I still don't trust the
                          > strength. Logic tells me that if tight corsets could be handsewn
                          and
                          > sturdy at the same time, then I can do it, but I've been
                          brainwashed
                          > by my sewing machine. :)
                          >
                          > As far as drapery rings, I have only seen metal ones twice ever and
                          > never small enough for this. I have thought about washers, but
                          > haven't seen any that would work yet. I still have to look
                          harder.
                          > I have though about making my own, or bartering with a friend that
                          > makes chainmaile for some soldered rings of that sort... Still
                          > working on that one.
                          >
                          > Thanks for the help.
                          >
                          > Elisabetta
                        • unclrashid@aol.com
                          ... big ... I know this will make certain people on the list splutter, but splutter away. I use the plastic rings made for roman shades if I can t find mettal
                          Message 12 of 14 , Sep 3 8:03 AM
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                            --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Sunny Medlock" <sunnyday78723@y...> wrote:
                            > him... Any idea where I might find little rings like that? I have
                            > been looking at soldered split rings, but I don't think they come
                            big
                            > or sturdy enough.
                            >

                            I know this will make certain people on the list splutter, but
                            splutter away. I use the plastic rings made for roman shades if I
                            can't find mettal in the right size. They are strong enough and I
                            cover them with buttonhole stitch so no one can tell what they are
                            made of.

                            I know it's not one hundred percent accurate, but I am interested in
                            the clothing and I am not interested in doing my own metalwork!

                            Rashid
                          • KAHLENR0SE@aol.com
                            I think Im going to use some of my gold metal for jewelry and make them myself. Its a fine enough gauge. And its easy to make a small ring with a pair of
                            Message 13 of 14 , Sep 3 8:23 AM
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                              I think Im going to use some of my gold metal for jewelry and make them
                              myself. Its a fine enough gauge. And its easy to make a small ring with a
                              pair of jewelry pliers.
                              I will give it a try and let you all know how well it works.
                              Kahlen du Coeur

                              If you want to touch the past TOUCH A ROCK. If you want to touch the present
                              TOUCH A ROSE. If you want to touch the future TOUCH A LIFE.......Unknown
                            • Sunny Medlock
                              ... have been looking at soldered split rings, but I don t think they come big or sturdy enough. ... I have done the same thing myself, but there are a few
                              Message 14 of 14 , Sep 3 1:40 PM
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                                > > him... Any idea where I might find little rings like that? I
                                have been looking at soldered split rings, but I don't think they
                                come big or sturdy enough.
                                > >
                                >
                                > I know this will make certain people on the list splutter, but
                                > splutter away. I use the plastic rings made for roman shades if I
                                > can't find mettal in the right size. They are strong enough and I
                                > cover them with buttonhole stitch so no one can tell what they are
                                > made of.
                                >
                                > I know it's not one hundred percent accurate, but I am interested
                                > in the clothing and I am not interested in doing my own metalwork!
                                >
                                > Rashid

                                I have done the same thing myself, but there are a few projects where
                                I want the metal ones specifically, and short of finding plastic ones
                                the right size and spray-painting them, Im afraid I might have to
                                make them myself (unless I can find an armorer to do it for me?)

                                As far as doing my own metalwork, I want to learn how to do
                                everything anyway (that's why I am in the SCA, so I can limit it to a
                                specific time/place instead of everything in existence :), so I
                                really wouldn't mind making them myself.

                                Elisabetta
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