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Re: [Authentic_SCA] vampyres and reactions to undead

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  • Anthony J. Bryant
    ... As some of my friends at the seminary used to say -- usually when we got into discussions of protestant theology -- Viva el santo fuego! Effingham
    Message 1 of 55 , Apr 2, 2001
      Bob Davis wrote:

      >
      > I wish to point out that we Dominicans take poorly to the undead also.
      > Auto de fey, anyone?
      >
      > Pax et bonum,
      >
      > -Friar Robert, OSD
      >

      As some of my friends at the seminary used to say -- usually when we got
      into discussions of protestant theology <G> -- "Viva el santo fuego!"


      Effingham
    • caoilte
      ... The ideas behind chivalry were kicking around Europe long before there was a Chivalric class. The Fianna of Ireland, a pre-Christian order, were reputed
      Message 55 of 55 , Apr 7, 2001
        stephen higa wrote:


        > Excellent. Thanks, you who responded about Chivalry. So, I think Moshewould
        > have known what it was, but might have called it something more
        > Spanishy. I do know that some scholars are saying that it might have been
        > brought to Europe through Arabic ideals, but patterns of influence are often
        > hard to trace. So, I could call it "bil-hawa" (the law of love?) in
        > medieval Arabic, a phrase I found in a 12th c. muwashshah (the phrase was
        > "din bil-hawa sar'a ma'ishta ya sahi" or "obey the law of love as long as
        > you live, my friend"). I know that doesn't encompass ALL of chivalry, but
        > "honor" or "ondrassen" (12th c. Spanish for, well, honor), "cortezia" and
        > "proeza" (12th c. Occitan for courtliness and valour/prowess, respectively)
        > and "bil-hawa" (12th c. Arabic for the Law of Love) might do the trick. All
        > of these languages Moshe would have known (I love saying little things in
        > Occitan to 'bards' that happen to wander into our encampment, calling them
        > "jugar" (troubadour)...Moshe would have been very proud to speak to them in
        > their own language ;)). Maybe Moshe never would have referred to it as a
        > unified ideal called "chivalry" but as its component parts.
        >

        The ideas behind chivalry were kicking around Europe long before there was a
        Chivalric class. The Fianna of Ireland, a pre-Christian order, were reputed to
        have such ideals. They were to help maidens in distress and the poor and weak.
        they were also obligated to stand against any enemy up to the number seven. If
        there were more than seven people trying to kill you at one time, then there was
        no shame in running. The question, of course, is how old are these ideas? In an
        oral culture, it can be hard to tell if an idea is original or was added to the
        saga later in time. Still, it is likely that these ideas predate the crusades
        and Eleanor's courts and, it is certain that the martial ideas of chivalry
        (Loyalty, courage, etc) are very old indeed.

        Caoilte
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