- Feb 5, 2003I totally agree with the living with it part....I also recommend drawing
it several times yourself. Earlier this year I had a heraldic artist
draw out my proposed arms, it included an orle of ivy... proper english
ivy with all the tendrils and points. The arms were beautiful, but
after tracing it out several times for a tray and a box lid I was ready
to chuck it yhrough the window. I have since "dumbed down" my arms so
now it is only a sprig of ivy (LOL).