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RE: Elon Jessup Plywood

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  • rljssn
    I have a MDO plywood boat and I think the stuff is pretty good if you are careful about selection. There are different grades and the one I have is 3/8 with
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 17, 2005
      I have a MDO plywood boat and I think the stuff is pretty good if you
      are careful about selection. There are different grades and the one I
      have is 3/8" with only 3 ply's in it. It shows some voids too. I would
      recommend the Crezon Signal brand with its more numerous inner ply's
      and less voids. It is resin paper double sided so it makes for a
      painted boat obviously. I (of course) want a bright interior.

      Hey, Ad Harvey... is that 3/4" bottom your idea or specified in the
      scantlings as an alternative? I don't have the plans yet and have not
      seen the alternative scantlings. If 3/4" I would be tempted to cold
      mold the bottom with 2 layers of 1/4" 5 ply occume running at 45
      degrees to the centerline and a final layer crossways for extra
      stiffness. Just an idea I had after reading Chapelle's treatment on
      Ashcroft methods in his book. A good bit of extra work though. Just as
      long as I don't have to run fiberglass reinforced fillets of epoxy
      laden wood flour all over I'm happy. there is no double curvature to
      help stiffen the composite so it may not work like I imagine.-Russell
    • adharvey2
      Russell, don t expect any help from the plans regarding plywood scantlings. There s no mention whatsoever of plywood on the sheets or tables. The 3/4 bottom
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 21, 2005
        Russell, don't expect any help from the plans regarding plywood
        scantlings. There's no mention whatsoever of plywood on the sheets or
        tables. The 3/4" bottom was just an inference on my part based on the
        relative lumber sizes. I've never actually tried making 3/4" plywood
        any shape it didn't want to be!
        I'd like to keep the bottom frameless, but I'm starting to wonder
        if there's a good way to accomplish this with plywood. Cold molding
        may be the answer.
        Andrew


        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "rljssn" <rljssn@y...> wrote:
        >
        > I have a MDO plywood boat and I think the stuff is pretty good if you
        > are careful about selection. There are different grades and the one I
        > have is 3/8" with only 3 ply's in it. It shows some voids too. I would
        > recommend the Crezon Signal brand with its more numerous inner ply's
        > and less voids. It is resin paper double sided so it makes for a
        > painted boat obviously. I (of course) want a bright interior.
        >
        > Hey, Ad Harvey... is that 3/4" bottom your idea or specified in the
        > scantlings as an alternative? I don't have the plans yet and have not
        > seen the alternative scantlings. If 3/4" I would be tempted to cold
        > mold the bottom with 2 layers of 1/4" 5 ply occume running at 45
        > degrees to the centerline and a final layer crossways for extra
        > stiffness. Just an idea I had after reading Chapelle's treatment on
        > Ashcroft methods in his book. A good bit of extra work though. Just as
        > long as I don't have to run fiberglass reinforced fillets of epoxy
        > laden wood flour all over I'm happy. there is no double curvature to
        > help stiffen the composite so it may not work like I imagine.-Russell
        >
      • cartacreations
        In WB 126 and 127 Harry Bryan details his building the skiff Daisy. In it he shows an alternative method of cross planking a bottom with solid wood but
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 21, 2005
          In WB 126 and 127 Harry Bryan details his building the skiff Daisy. In it he shows an
          alternative method of cross planking a bottom with solid wood but without caulking. He
          lays up two layers oh 3/8" thick cedar, beded to the chine and epoxied to each other. The
          seams between planks are offset and epoxied tight as well. You get the benefit of a solid
          wood bottom, built to the design specs, without the hassle of caulking or having your
          boards come open when dry.

          The all ply bottom will require extra cross frames to help hold its shape that I think look
          unattractive in an open boat of this type. I'd take a look at the double cross planked
          bottom.

          dave

          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "adharvey2" <adharvey@m...> wrote:
          >
          > Russell, don't expect any help from the plans regarding plywood
          > scantlings. There's no mention whatsoever of plywood on the sheets or
          > tables. The 3/4" bottom was just an inference on my part based on the
          > relative lumber sizes. I've never actually tried making 3/4" plywood
          > any shape it didn't want to be!
          > I'd like to keep the bottom frameless, but I'm starting to wonder
          > if there's a good way to accomplish this with plywood. Cold molding
          > may be the answer.
          > Andrew
          >
          >
          > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "rljssn" <rljssn@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I have a MDO plywood boat and I think the stuff is pretty good if you
          > > are careful about selection. There are different grades and the one I
          > > have is 3/8" with only 3 ply's in it. It shows some voids too. I would
          > > recommend the Crezon Signal brand with its more numerous inner ply's
          > > and less voids. It is resin paper double sided so it makes for a
          > > painted boat obviously. I (of course) want a bright interior.
          > >
          > > Hey, Ad Harvey... is that 3/4" bottom your idea or specified in the
          > > scantlings as an alternative? I don't have the plans yet and have not
          > > seen the alternative scantlings. If 3/4" I would be tempted to cold
          > > mold the bottom with 2 layers of 1/4" 5 ply occume running at 45
          > > degrees to the centerline and a final layer crossways for extra
          > > stiffness. Just an idea I had after reading Chapelle's treatment on
          > > Ashcroft methods in his book. A good bit of extra work though. Just as
          > > long as I don't have to run fiberglass reinforced fillets of epoxy
          > > laden wood flour all over I'm happy. there is no double curvature to
          > > help stiffen the composite so it may not work like I imagine.-Russell
          > >
          >
        • rljssn
          In that issue (daisy skiff) how does he bed the bottom to the chines? Lifecaulk perhaps? How do the side planks bed to the chines? The cold molded bottom in
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 21, 2005
            In that issue (daisy skiff) how does he bed the bottom to the chines?
            Lifecaulk perhaps? How do the side planks bed to the chines? The cold
            molded bottom in solid wood is exactly what I was thinking of doing.
            I really need to get ahold of that WB issue....
            thanks,-Russell



            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cartacreations"
            <cartacreations@y...> wrote:
            >
            > In WB 126 and 127 Harry Bryan details his building the skiff
            Daisy. In it he shows an
            > alternative method of cross planking a bottom with solid wood but
            without caulking. He
            > lays up two layers oh 3/8" thick cedar, beded to the chine and
            epoxied to each other. The
            > seams between planks are offset and epoxied tight as well. You get
            the benefit of a solid
            > wood bottom, built to the design specs, without the hassle of
            caulking or having your
            > boards come open when dry.
            >
            > The all ply bottom will require extra cross frames to help hold its
            shape that I think look
            > unattractive in an open boat of this type. I'd take a look at the
            double cross planked
            > bottom.
            >
            > dave
            >
            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "adharvey2" <adharvey@m...>
            wrote:
            > >
            > > Russell, don't expect any help from the plans regarding plywood
            > > scantlings. There's no mention whatsoever of plywood on the
            sheets or
            > > tables. The 3/4" bottom was just an inference on my part based on
            the
            > > relative lumber sizes. I've never actually tried making 3/4"
            plywood
            > > any shape it didn't want to be!
            > > I'd like to keep the bottom frameless, but I'm starting to
            wonder
            > > if there's a good way to accomplish this with plywood. Cold
            molding
            > > may be the answer.
            > > Andrew
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "rljssn" <rljssn@y...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I have a MDO plywood boat and I think the stuff is pretty good
            if you
            > > > are careful about selection. There are different grades and the
            one I
            > > > have is 3/8" with only 3 ply's in it. It shows some voids too.
            I would
            > > > recommend the Crezon Signal brand with its more numerous inner
            ply's
            > > > and less voids. It is resin paper double sided so it makes for
            a
            > > > painted boat obviously. I (of course) want a bright interior.
            > > >
            > > > Hey, Ad Harvey... is that 3/4" bottom your idea or specified in
            the
            > > > scantlings as an alternative? I don't have the plans yet and
            have not
            > > > seen the alternative scantlings. If 3/4" I would be tempted to
            cold
            > > > mold the bottom with 2 layers of 1/4" 5 ply occume running at
            45
            > > > degrees to the centerline and a final layer crossways for extra
            > > > stiffness. Just an idea I had after reading Chapelle's
            treatment on
            > > > Ashcroft methods in his book. A good bit of extra work though.
            Just as
            > > > long as I don't have to run fiberglass reinforced fillets of
            epoxy
            > > > laden wood flour all over I'm happy. there is no double
            curvature to
            > > > help stiffen the composite so it may not work like I imagine.-
            Russell
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • John B. Trussell
            There are a couple of variations of cross planking which might work for you. Woodenboat did a series of articles many years ago on a double planked flat
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 21, 2005
              There are a couple of variations of cross planking which might work for you.

              Woodenboat did a series of articles many years ago on a double planked flat
              bottom. The firdt layer was fastened to the keelson and chines with nails
              and marline between the planking and chines. Then a layer of muslin, bedded
              in roofing tar was aplied to the bottom and a second layer of planks
              (staggered to off set the seams on the first layer) was nailed to the
              chines, keelson, and clinch nailed to the first layer of planks.

              Pete Culler has suggested using splined bottom planking. He no doubt knew
              exactly what he was suggesting, but I.m not sure I understand it. The only
              detailed explanations I've seen of splining involve splined transoms. I
              infer (OK, I'm guessing) that you rip slots in the edges if the bottom
              planking stock and insert a woolden spline in the slots of adjoining planks.
              I've never been sure what to use for splines, but I think I would use
              plywood splies and one of the miracle goops like Sikaflex.

              Either of these approaches seems like a lot of work, but they promise the
              virtues of traditional cross planking with a reasonably leak proof bottom.

              Good luck.

              John T
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "rljssn" <rljssn@...>
              To: <AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 4:44 PM
              Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Elon Jessup Plywood


              > In that issue (daisy skiff) how does he bed the bottom to the chines?
              > Lifecaulk perhaps? How do the side planks bed to the chines? The cold
              > molded bottom in solid wood is exactly what I was thinking of doing.
              > I really need to get ahold of that WB issue....
              > thanks,-Russell
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cartacreations"
              > <cartacreations@y...> wrote:
              >>
              >> In WB 126 and 127 Harry Bryan details his building the skiff
              > Daisy. In it he shows an
              >> alternative method of cross planking a bottom with solid wood but
              > without caulking. He
              >> lays up two layers oh 3/8" thick cedar, beded to the chine and
              > epoxied to each other. The
              >> seams between planks are offset and epoxied tight as well. You get
              > the benefit of a solid
              >> wood bottom, built to the design specs, without the hassle of
              > caulking or having your
              >> boards come open when dry.
              >>
              >> The all ply bottom will require extra cross frames to help hold its
              > shape that I think look
              >> unattractive in an open boat of this type. I'd take a look at the
              > double cross planked
              >> bottom.
              >>
              >> dave
              >>
              >> --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "adharvey2" <adharvey@m...>
              > wrote:
              >> >
              >> > Russell, don't expect any help from the plans regarding plywood
              >> > scantlings. There's no mention whatsoever of plywood on the
              > sheets or
              >> > tables. The 3/4" bottom was just an inference on my part based on
              > the
              >> > relative lumber sizes. I've never actually tried making 3/4"
              > plywood
              >> > any shape it didn't want to be!
              >> > I'd like to keep the bottom frameless, but I'm starting to
              > wonder
              >> > if there's a good way to accomplish this with plywood. Cold
              > molding
              >> > may be the answer.
              >> > Andrew
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "rljssn" <rljssn@y...> wrote:
              >> > >
              >> > > I have a MDO plywood boat and I think the stuff is pretty good
              > if you
              >> > > are careful about selection. There are different grades and the
              > one I
              >> > > have is 3/8" with only 3 ply's in it. It shows some voids too.
              > I would
              >> > > recommend the Crezon Signal brand with its more numerous inner
              > ply's
              >> > > and less voids. It is resin paper double sided so it makes for
              > a
              >> > > painted boat obviously. I (of course) want a bright interior.
              >> > >
              >> > > Hey, Ad Harvey... is that 3/4" bottom your idea or specified in
              > the
              >> > > scantlings as an alternative? I don't have the plans yet and
              > have not
              >> > > seen the alternative scantlings. If 3/4" I would be tempted to
              > cold
              >> > > mold the bottom with 2 layers of 1/4" 5 ply occume running at
              > 45
              >> > > degrees to the centerline and a final layer crossways for extra
              >> > > stiffness. Just an idea I had after reading Chapelle's
              > treatment on
              >> > > Ashcroft methods in his book. A good bit of extra work though.
              > Just as
              >> > > long as I don't have to run fiberglass reinforced fillets of
              > epoxy
              >> > > laden wood flour all over I'm happy. there is no double
              > curvature to
              >> > > help stiffen the composite so it may not work like I imagine.-
              > Russell
              >> > >
              >> >
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              > polite.
              >
              > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
              > you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
              > take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.
              >
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              > <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
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            • John Kohnen
              MDO is good stuff, the last makers of wooden runabouts in the US use (used? are they all gone?) MDO for lapstrake planking. But you ve got to get the good
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 23, 2005
                MDO is good stuff, the last makers of wooden runabouts in the US use
                (used? are they all gone?) MDO for lapstrake planking. But you've got to
                get the good stuff, the MDO you see at the home center can be very bad
                inside. :o( Simpson's Signal and Crezon are good grades:

                http://www.olypanel.com/sign_making/

                On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:44:57 -0800, rljssn wrote:

                > I have a MDO plywood boat and I think the stuff is pretty good if you
                > are careful about selection. There are different grades and the one I
                > have is 3/8" with only 3 ply's in it. It shows some voids too. I would
                > recommend the Crezon Signal brand with its more numerous inner ply's
                > and less voids. It is resin paper double sided so it makes for a
                > painted boat obviously. I (of course) want a bright interior.
                > ...

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                Correlation does not imply causation; except, of course, to your
                cat. <Craig O'Donnell>
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