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Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: choosing outboard skiffs

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  • John B. Trussell
    Pete Culler suggests splining cross planked boats--a job he indicated was easily accomplished with a table saw. I d be inclined to use plywood strips for
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 13, 2005
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      Pete Culler suggests splining cross planked boats--a job he indicated was
      easily accomplished with a table saw. I'd be inclined to use plywood strips
      for splines and one of the miracle goos if I eare to try this--I've never
      seen any other reference to the method.

      Sadly, many traditional boats were built using construction techniques which
      work fine if a boat is kept in the water but fail when the boat is "dry
      sailed". I know it is contrary to your goal of using traditional
      construction, but plywood is probably a better way to go. Just be aware
      that cross planking is stiff and plywood is limp/floppy. In my opinion,
      plywood needs a good deal more framing than it normally gets.

      John T
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "rljssn" <rljssn@...>
      To: <AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:30 PM
      Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: choosing outboard skiffs


      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Chris Brown <chrisjb99@e...> wrote:
      > Or you could double plank it
      > > crosswise as per Yankee Tender in "10 Wooden Boats You Can Build".
      >
      >
      > Chris, I have not seen the Yankee Tender layout. Is that double plank
      > sealed up any special way? Could one sorta cold mold the bottom out of
      > 1/8" strakes of cedar set in epoxy? At that point the only joint to
      > worry about is the sides to the bottom. The bottom would stay
      > dimensionally stable as a laminated piece but the bottom plank of the
      > side would swell as it gets wet. I don't know if that would be enough
      > to be a problem since they are joined in different planes. Would it be
      > wiser to go ahead and just nail on a plywood bottom and be done with it?
      > I don't mind the extra work on such a simple flat bottom.
      > By the way, what style dory are you completing? An Atkin design also?
      >
      > thanks everyone for your input!
      > Russell
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be
      polite.
      >
      > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
      you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
      take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.
      >
      > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
      > <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • jkohnen@boat-links.com
      The traditionally planked skiffs won t like living on a trailer. :o( Fortunately there s an easy fix that isn t too bad a compromise -- plank just the bottom
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 15, 2005
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        The traditionally planked skiffs won't like living on a trailer. :o(
        Fortunately there's an easy fix that isn't too bad a compromise -- plank
        just the bottom with plywood, running the sheets crosswise. If the plywood
        is only a little thinner than the planks called for in the plans the bottom
        will be plenty sturdy enough. Bottom frames are miserable things to have to
        live with in a flat-bottom skiff. I know, mine has them! :o( Bed the plywood
        in some good modern sticky stuff like 4200 or 5200 (if you don't ever want
        to take it apart again <g>) and use the goop in the laps too if you feel
        like it.

        If you're planning on hauling three people very often, especially if they're
        full-size adults, you'd better go with Punch or Elon Jessup and plan on
        using a ten-horse engine. The smaller skiffs will haul three people safely
        enough but they'll bog down from the load.

        There's going to be a Maud and Emeline built with plywood lapstrake planks
        on display at the Atkin & Co. booth at the Port Townsend Festival.

        On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 03:24:03 -0000, Russell wrote:
        > Hi all,
        > I'm looking for advice on a skiff design. I have prior experience in
        > epoxy stitch and glue boats and the instant boats (constant bevel with
        > chine logs). I like the Elon Jessup design with the cross plank bottom.
        > This boat will go to local lakes on a small trailer and be propelled by
        > one of the new 4 stroke low horsepower outboards available.
        > ...
        > I want to use as many traditional materials as possible of course and not
        > change the design too much. I would hate to go all plywood and epoxy.
        > Is there a way to have my cake and eat it too? I'm tired of
        > boatbuilding in a tyvek suit with respirator on and looking through
        > epoxy smudged safety glasses.
        >
        > lastly, I would take a max of three people on board and like the bigger
        > (16'-17')skiffs.
        > ...

        --
        John <jkohnen@...>
        http://www.boat-links.com/
        I care not for a man's religion whose dog or cat are not the better for it.
        <Abraham Lincoln>
      • jkohnen@boat-links.com
        I m not so averse to plywood that I d go to all that trouble! ;o) For a limited time you can get the article about building the Yankee Tender here (I don t
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 15, 2005
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          I'm not so averse to plywood that I'd go to all that trouble! ;o)

          For a limited time you can get the article about building the Yankee Tender
          here (I don't remember where it came from, but I stumbled upon it in my
          files the other day <shrug>:

          http://www.boat-links.com/images/SkiffBuilding.ZIP

          There's a lot of good stuff in the article that'd be useful for building any
          Atkin skiff. I hope WB doen't string me up by my toes...

          On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:03:42 -0400, Chris B wrote:
          > Russell: The Yankee Tender is double crossplanked on the bottom with a
          > piece of muslin between set in bedding compound cut with linseed oil to
          > what looks like the consistency of hummus. The double planking helps
          > with the corner joint also as the first layer is installed and cut
          > flush with the outside of the chine. Then the garboard plank is
          > installed overlapping the first layer of bottom planking then cut flush
          > with the bottom. Then the bottom is primed w/ linseed oil and the cut
          > bedding compound layed on w/ a notched trowel. The muslin is draped over
          > rolled and pulled tight. More bedding compound is trowelled on before
          > each plank is installed exactly overlapping half of two planks in the
          > first layer.
          > ...

          --
          John <jkohnen@...>
          http://www.boat-links.com/
          Never board a ship without an onion, is sound doctrine.
          <H. W. Tilman>
        • cartacreations
          John, thanks for that file, it should be a great help to me in building Maud & Emeline. All this talk about bottom construction has been very intersting since
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 15, 2005
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            John, thanks for that file, it should be a great help to me in building Maud & Emeline.

            All this talk about bottom construction has been very intersting since I'm struggling with
            how to plank the M&E skiff. I'm going to build with glued lap ply construction for the
            planks but I want most of the other parts of the boat to be built as designed. I'm reluctant
            to use ply for the bottom or tansom. For the bottom I have been considering using 6"
            wide planks of Port Oroford Cedar layed longitudinaly (instead of athwartship) with a
            simple half lap routed out along each edge and epoxied together.

            My reasons for wanting solid wood instead of ply in tho bottom are weight, stiffness (ply
            being a bit flexy for its weight) and flotation. I want to keep as much natural bouancy in
            the boat as possible since I'll be lossing the bouancy of the real wood planks.

            My concerns are that the POC planks will move too much from shrinking and swelling and
            I will have a cracked bottom at some point.

            Can anbody comment on this plan? Should I just use ply instead?

            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
            > I'm not so averse to plywood that I'd go to all that trouble! ;o)
            >
            > For a limited time you can get the article about building the Yankee Tender
            > here (I don't remember where it came from, but I stumbled upon it in my
            > files the other day <shrug>:
            >
            > http://www.boat-links.com/images/SkiffBuilding.ZIP
            >
            > There's a lot of good stuff in the article that'd be useful for building any
            > Atkin skiff. I hope WB doen't string me up by my toes...
            >
            > On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:03:42 -0400, Chris B wrote:
            > > Russell: The Yankee Tender is double crossplanked on the bottom with a
            > > piece of muslin between set in bedding compound cut with linseed oil to
            > > what looks like the consistency of hummus. The double planking helps
            > > with the corner joint also as the first layer is installed and cut
            > > flush with the outside of the chine. Then the garboard plank is
            > > installed overlapping the first layer of bottom planking then cut flush
            > > with the bottom. Then the bottom is primed w/ linseed oil and the cut
            > > bedding compound layed on w/ a notched trowel. The muslin is draped over
            > > rolled and pulled tight. More bedding compound is trowelled on before
            > > each plank is installed exactly overlapping half of two planks in the
            > > first layer.
            > > ...
            >
            > --
            > John <jkohnen@b...>
            > http://www.boat-links.com/
            > Never board a ship without an onion, is sound doctrine.
            > <H. W. Tilman>
          • Chris Brown
            John Atkin specified a longitudinally planked batten seam bottom for his own flat bottom skiff, Tom Davin. Might be a viable solution. The wider the plank, the
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 15, 2005
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              John Atkin specified a longitudinally planked batten seam bottom for his
              own flat bottom skiff, Tom Davin. Might be a viable solution. The wider
              the plank, the greater the swell dimensionally (?), because swelling
              is a percentage of plank width, assuming flatsawn lumber? His plans in
              Practical Small Boat Designs show 8 planks of 7/8" white cedar for what
              looks to be about a 60" beam across the bottom of what is a 20' boat. Is
              he assuming vertical grain lumber to minimize swelling laterally? Lots
              of questions. At some point you just go for it......

              cb

              cartacreations wrote:

              >John, thanks for that file, it should be a great help to me in building Maud & Emeline.
              >
              >All this talk about bottom construction has been very intersting since I'm struggling with
              >how to plank the M&E skiff. I'm going to build with glued lap ply construction for the
              >planks but I want most of the other parts of the boat to be built as designed. I'm reluctant
              >to use ply for the bottom or tansom. For the bottom I have been considering using 6"
              >wide planks of Port Oroford Cedar layed longitudinaly (instead of athwartship) with a
              >simple half lap routed out along each edge and epoxied together.
              >
              >My reasons for wanting solid wood instead of ply in tho bottom are weight, stiffness (ply
              >being a bit flexy for its weight) and flotation. I want to keep as much natural bouancy in
              >the boat as possible since I'll be lossing the bouancy of the real wood planks.
              >
              >My concerns are that the POC planks will move too much from shrinking and swelling and
              >I will have a cracked bottom at some point.
              >
              >Can anbody comment on this plan? Should I just use ply instead?
              >
              >--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
              >
              >
              >>I'm not so averse to plywood that I'd go to all that trouble! ;o)
              >>
              >>For a limited time you can get the article about building the Yankee Tender
              >>here (I don't remember where it came from, but I stumbled upon it in my
              >>files the other day <shrug>:
              >>
              >>http://www.boat-links.com/images/SkiffBuilding.ZIP
              >>
              >>There's a lot of good stuff in the article that'd be useful for building any
              >>Atkin skiff. I hope WB doen't string me up by my toes...
              >>
              >>On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:03:42 -0400, Chris B wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >>>Russell: The Yankee Tender is double crossplanked on the bottom with a
              >>>piece of muslin between set in bedding compound cut with linseed oil to
              >>>what looks like the consistency of hummus. The double planking helps
              >>>with the corner joint also as the first layer is installed and cut
              >>>flush with the outside of the chine. Then the garboard plank is
              >>>installed overlapping the first layer of bottom planking then cut flush
              >>>with the bottom. Then the bottom is primed w/ linseed oil and the cut
              >>>bedding compound layed on w/ a notched trowel. The muslin is draped over
              >>>rolled and pulled tight. More bedding compound is trowelled on before
              >>>each plank is installed exactly overlapping half of two planks in the
              >>>first layer.
              >>>...
              >>>
              >>>
              >>--
              >> John <jkohnen@b...>
              >> http://www.boat-links.com/
              >> Never board a ship without an onion, is sound doctrine.
              >> <H. W. Tilman>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.
              >
              >If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.
              >
              >The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
              ><http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • David Lightfoot
              Just a thought brought out by someone s suggestion to double plank with plywood. How about a couple of 1/2 longitudinal layers of your cedar, properly
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 15, 2005
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                Just a thought brought out by someone's suggestion to double plank with
                plywood. How about a couple of 1/2" longitudinal layers of your cedar,
                properly staggered and with the outmost layer overlapping the sides? Might
                be a toss up as far as the trade off in time and materials over batten
                seam. If you laminated with epoxy, would this force a limit to the
                swelling/shrinking? I don't know for sure. A laminated beam with 1/4"
                stock seems to hold its shape pretty well. 1/2" might be
                different. Anybody know or have a guess what the swelling situation would
                be in this type construction for a drysailed bottom?

                David Lightfoot



                >My concerns are that the POC planks will move too much from shrinking and
                >swelling and
                >I will have a cracked bottom at some point.
                >
                >Can anbody comment on this plan? Should I just use ply instead?


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              • Wayne
                ... with ... cedar, ... sides? Might ... batten ... 1/4 ... situation would ... These two boats are double planked and seem to work well.
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 17, 2005
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                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, David Lightfoot <dlight@k...>
                  wrote:
                  > Just a thought brought out by someone's suggestion to double plank
                  with
                  > plywood. How about a couple of 1/2" longitudinal layers of your
                  cedar,
                  > properly staggered and with the outmost layer overlapping the
                  sides? Might
                  > be a toss up as far as the trade off in time and materials over
                  batten
                  > seam. If you laminated with epoxy, would this force a limit to the
                  > swelling/shrinking? I don't know for sure. A laminated beam with
                  1/4"
                  > stock seems to hold its shape pretty well. 1/2" might be
                  > different. Anybody know or have a guess what the swelling
                  situation would
                  > be in this type construction for a drysailed bottom?
                  >
                  > David Lightfoot

                  These two boats are double planked and seem to work well.

                  http://www.gartsideboats.com/jessie.php

                  http://www.gartsideboats.com/surprise.php

                  Add Bill Garden's Tom Cat to the list as well.

                  http://www.woodenboat.com/tcsample.pdf

                  John Gardner advocated double bottoms for dories. However, their
                  bottoms are quite a bit narrower than a skiff. Typical dory
                  construction called for an inner bottom with an odd number of planks
                  fore and aft and an outer, sacrificial, cross planked bottom. Kim
                  Smith at The Dory Shop quoted that type construction to me for a dory
                  to be kept on a trailer. Still wondering why I didn't buy it.

                  Wayne
                  In the Swamp.
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