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Re: Question for John and Mrs. Atkins

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  • Wayne
    ... I am beginning to see the forest for all of the trees. I think you are correct to ask if the sail plans show details of mast construction. Boatbuilding
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 1, 2005
      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dolph" <jdewolfe@a...> wrote:
      > Do any of the Sail designs include specs and design details for
      > hollow
      > rectangular section masts with internal halyards?

      > Mike Dolph

      I am beginning to see the forest for all of the trees. I think you
      are correct to ask if the sail plans show details of mast
      construction. Boatbuilding books will give you the generalities of
      spar construction. Each designer will provide his take on how all the
      bits go together.

      A great example are Roger Long's drawings available in the internet.

      Go to this page and scroll down to the sail plan for his 27' Pinky.

      http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/27Pinky.htm

      Wayne
      In the Swamp.
    • jkohnen@boat-links.com
      There are several examples of hollow rectangular wooden masts in L. Francis Herreshoff s book Sensible Cruising Designs (Int l Marine 1973), and he writes
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 1, 2005
        There are several examples of hollow rectangular wooden masts in L. Francis
        Herreshoff's book Sensible Cruising Designs (Int'l Marine 1973), and he
        writes about them in The Common Sense of Yacht Design (reprinted by Caravan-
        Maritime in 1975). Francis Herreshoff was one of the early champions of
        rectangular spars. I'll look around in my Ideal Series books for Atkin
        examples. Internal halyards are the kind of go-fast complication that
        wouldn't appeal to either of the Atkins, so I doubt that I'll find any.

        On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 17:48:15 -0000, Mike wrote:
        > Do any of the Sail designs include specs and design details for
        > hollow
        > rectangular section masts with internal halyards?
        > ...

        --
        John <jkohnen@...>
        http://www.boat-links.com/
        The problem with people who have no vices is that generally you can
        be pretty sure they're going to have some pretty annoying virtues.
        <Elizabeth Taylor>
      • mikegt4
        I have owned a couple of boats with wood masts/internal halyards. Other than being visually cleaner , I found no advantages over external halyards. An
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 1, 2005
          I have owned a couple of boats with wood masts/internal halyards.
          Other than being "visually cleaner", I found no advantages over
          external halyards. An internal jam or twist will be an event to
          remember. At least one of my masts had a compression tube between the
          spreaders, just like aluminum masts.

          Built-up wood masts weren't rocket science, just the "norm" at one
          time. Most designers of "homebuilt" boats in the 60's and 70's
          included built-up wood masts in their plans to satisfy the "cost
          conscious" builder. Sitka was cheap, aluminum was expensive. Bingham,
          Skene's/Kinney, Roberts, Glen-L, Piver, Jim Brown amoung others all
          had wooden mast building chapters in their construction manuals.
          Herreshoff and Bolger show mast construction in detail in many of
          their books. It's out there, just not popular anymore. You can find
          these books in larger libraries, usually in the "nobody checks me out
          anymore" section (which can be a gold mine to the old boat lover).
          Used book stores in the coastal areas are also a great source.
          Good hunting


          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dolph" <jdewolfe@a...> wrote:
          > Do any of the Sail designs include specs and design details for
          > hollow
          > rectangular section masts with internal halyards? I tried to
          > describe
          > these to a Brazilian fellow on another list and I think I failed
          > miserably. I couldn't think of a cite except Bruce
          > Bingham's "Ferrocement Boatbuilding" which is "out of print" and I
          > can't remember ever seeing this online. If Mrs. Atkins has access
          to
          > engineering tables etc. or perhaps access to Bruce Bingham who I
          > believe may still work as an illustrator could such information be
          > published/sold? There seems to be a dearth of information on the
          > subject of wooden mast design and building and it's one of those
          > technologies that is just now being lost for lack of use in the
          USA.
          > For once it would be nice to save something for posterity before
          all
          > the practitioners are dead.
          >
          > Mike Dolph
        • David Lightfoot
          It s been a long timeand I can t remember the boat or builder but I vaguely recall someone with a largish catboat sporting a marconi sail with such an
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 1, 2005
            It's been a long timeand I can't remember the boat or builder but I
            vaguely recall someone with a largish catboat sporting a marconi sail with
            such an arrangement. He ran metal tubes for 1) the halyard, 2) the
            replacement halyard for when the main got screwed up , and 3) a wire
            running through one of the halyard tubes to be used to fish another halyard
            when the second got screwed up. Honestly, I don't think he figured on all
            this screwing up to happen on the same trip, he just didn't like the idea
            of ever actually fixing the setup. I also don't know if he went through
            all those gyrations with the halyards and wires.

            David Lightfoot

            At 01:55 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:
            >Mike,
            >
            >
            >
            >I would also think the exit from the hollow spar near the deck would weaken
            >the spar significantly. The more halyards, the more holes, the less
            >structural engineering integrity of the spar. I don't know this to be a
            >fact, but am guessing based on amateur observation.
            >
            >


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          • Mike Dolph
            Well actually the part you quoted wasn t me; must of been one of the other geniuses. Mike Dolph ... I ... sail with ... wire ... halyard ... on all ... the
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 1, 2005
              Well actually the part you quoted wasn't me; must of been one of the
              other geniuses.

              Mike Dolph

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, David Lightfoot <dlight@k...>
              wrote:
              > It's been a long timeand I can't remember the boat or builder but
              I
              > vaguely recall someone with a largish catboat sporting a marconi
              sail with
              > such an arrangement. He ran metal tubes for 1) the halyard, 2) the
              > replacement halyard for when the main got screwed up , and 3) a
              wire
              > running through one of the halyard tubes to be used to fish another
              halyard
              > when the second got screwed up. Honestly, I don't think he figured
              on all
              > this screwing up to happen on the same trip, he just didn't like
              the idea
              > of ever actually fixing the setup. I also don't know if he went
              through
              > all those gyrations with the halyards and wires.
              >
              > David Lightfoot
              >
              > At 01:55 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:
              > >Mike,
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >I would also think the exit from the hollow spar near the deck
              would weaken
              > >the spar significantly. The more halyards, the more holes, the
              less
              > >structural engineering integrity of the spar. I don't know this
              to be a
              > >fact, but am guessing based on amateur observation.
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > --
              > No virus found in this outgoing message.
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              > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date:
              7/28/2005
            • Wayne
              ... That wouldn t be me. I don t know much. It s a good thing wooden boats aren t like rocket science or I would be totally lost. I said I would look and I
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 1, 2005
                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dolph" <jdewolfe@a...> wrote:

                ...must of been one of the other geniuses.
                >
                > Mike Dolph

                That wouldn't be me. I don't know much. It's a good thing wooden boats
                aren't like rocket science or I would be totally lost.

                I said I would look and I did. I opened the first book my hand fell on.
                Sure enough there is enough information there to build a hollow wooden
                mast. I opened a roll of plans and there is enough information there to
                fabricate the fittings for the mast.

                Internal halyards optional at the builders discretion.

                Wayne
                Learning something new everyday In the Swamp.
              • David Lightfoot
                I knew that and I m sorry. I made the oft done mistake of quoting a qoute that had been chopped up. And I thought I was fairly good at keeping things
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 1, 2005
                  I knew that and I'm sorry. I made the oft done mistake of quoting a qoute
                  that had been chopped up. And I thought I was fairly good at keeping
                  things accurate in that respect.
                  And I still can't remember what site I saw it on.

                  At 07:11 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:
                  >Well actually the part you quoted wasn't me; must of been one of the
                  >other geniuses.
                  >
                  >Mike Dolph


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