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Atkin plans, how much detail and what come with them

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  • jkohnen@boat-links.com
    Any additional deck structure will adversely affect performance, but if you keep a hard dodger or pilothouse as low and light as possible it might not hurt
    Message 1 of 12 , May 8 3:05 PM
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      Any additional deck structure will adversely affect performance, but if you
      keep a hard dodger or pilothouse as low and light as possible it might not
      hurt things much. Of equal importance, all too often the "improvements"
      people make to the superstructures of their boats spoil the looks, if they
      don't end up making the poor boat butt-ugly. <sigh> A recent example is the
      little Fenwick Williams canoe yawl in the latest Wooden Boat, where a few
      inches extra height in the cabin sides an some extra crown in the top made
      the cabin look ungainly.

      For a boat the size of Little Ranger traditional carvel construction is best
      in the long run. You aren't going to be trailering a boat that size, so
      there's no harm in the swelling. Strip and cold-molded construction is more
      expensive and involves working with lots of unpleasant goop. :ob Regular old
      plank-on-frame construction is infinitely repairable too, you can build a
      boat that way that will last for generations with a little care.

      A complete neophyte can easily build some of the small, simple Atkin designs
      from the plans and accompanying MoToR BoatinG article. For the more complex
      small boats the neophyte should study some of the books on boatbuilding
      available through the page below. With the help of the books they should be
      able to build any of the small boats if they're reasonably handy:

      http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Books/index.html

      On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:14:08 -0000, John C wrote:
      > ...
      > I joined this group out of curiosity because a reader of my column
      > emailed me about the Atkin plans and wanted to know what they
      > contained. After looking at the plans and seeing the boats I might
      > just build one of these for my vacation boat to Mexico every
      > winter.
      > ...
      > I have been looking at the Little Ranger.
      > ...
      > but I wonder if a pilothouse/hard dodger
      > would come under those restraints? I have been thinking of strip
      > planking with cold molding over that to make a hull that will not
      > swell with water infiltration. The pilot house is so I can keep
      > green cold Pacific water off my back and boots when I have to beat
      > back north through the many storms that are in the Pacific at that
      > time of year. Plus I can always put up two extra people in hammocks
      > inside the confines of a pilot house.
      > ...
      > In any case could someone who has a set of plans fill me in about
      > the content and if a complete neophyte could build one of the
      > smaller designs.
      > ...

      --
      John <jkohnen@...>
      http://www.boat-links.com/
      After all, all he did was string together a lot of old,
      well-known quotations. <H. L. Mencken on Shakespeare>
    • lon wells
      Both John and William Atkin were well versed in the art of Drafting. I appreciate well done prints and I can be very critical. Based on the Levee Belle prints
      Message 2 of 12 , May 9 1:10 AM
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        Both John and William Atkin were well versed in the art of Drafting. I appreciate well done prints and I can be very critical. Based on the Levee Belle prints I bought. Their prints are very well done with alot of attention to detail. These are hand done blueprints before the days of Cad. You could frame these prints as marine art. I have worked on Navy Prints and commercial Shipbuilding prints Atkin is equal to the best of these.

        Pat Atkin who is a artist with a eye for detail wrote me a note about the Levee Belle prints that even she could not tell the difference between John's work and William's on the drafting boards.

        Both father and son had built boats and were two of the most prolific designers with close to 900 designs. So when you study your prints you will see that Atkin knew how to design a boat for the water and the builder.

        Blueprints are a language from the designer to the builder. Like a music score is from the composer to the musician, sheet music does not show you how to play a instrument it tells you how to play a song. You can learn the skills to build your boat. Remember there was a day you could not walk or use the toilet. You fell down some and had a few messes but now you have those skills. So when you start working on your boat you will fall down some and have a few messes but in the end you will have a boat that you built with your own hands. The first day you take your hand made boat on the water will be a spacial moment in your life that you will always remember.
        Good luck shipmate
        Lon





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      • jkohnen@boat-links.com
        Well put Lon. Few of us are so innately inept that we can t learn to build a boat. Depending on how our minds work, some of us can get a head start from books,
        Message 3 of 12 , May 11 6:01 PM
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          Well put Lon.

          Few of us are so innately inept that we can't learn to build a boat.
          Depending on how our minds work, some of us can get a head start from books,
          some from step-by-step plans, and some of us might do better if shown some
          of the tricks -- or various combinations of the above for most of us,
          probably -- but it's not rocket science, and we can do it. For the simple
          boats in the Atkin catalog there's enough in the MoToR BoatinG articles for
          most tyros to figure out how to build the boats, and then they can use that
          knowledge as a leg-up towards building bigger and more complicated projects.

          I have nothing against the many "instant" type boat plans (except I
          personally don't like working with lots of goop), but I think their
          designers capitalize on the lack of confidence many amateurs seem to suffer
          nowadays. "Oh, I couldn't ever build a boat, but this doesn't look like
          building a boat, with no lofting or bevels or close fits. I could do that!"
          they think. But they _can_ build a boat the old-fashioned way, lots of
          amateurs have, all it takes is some patience and a bit of gumption to take
          the first step. And you don't need a shop full of expensive tools. Other
          than the hammers and saws and drills everybody has around (but get the saws
          or blades sharpened) a plane or two and a few chisels are about all you
          need, and they can usually be found at a local junk store.

          The most important requirement for any kind of boatbuilding is the ability
          to start a project and see it through to completion. It helps a lot if you
          enjoy the building itself. If you're most interested in getting on the water
          you'll be better off buying a boat. I enjoy making chips and sawdust, I
          don't enjoy smearing goop. I'm not too bad of a woodworker but, alas, I have
          trouble getting projects started and finishing them (the part in between
          usually isn't a problem). <sigh> But I have launched a boat I built with my
          own hands (and little goop) and it sure did feel good! :o)

          On Mon, 9 May 2005 01:10:03 -0700 (PDT), Lon wrote:
          > ...
          > Both father and son had built boats and were two of the most prolific
          designers with close to 900 designs. So when you study your prints you will
          see that Atkin knew how to design a boat for the water and the builder.
          >
          > Blueprints are a language from the designer to the builder. Like a music
          score is from the composer to the musician, sheet music does not show you
          how to play a instrument it tells you how to play a song. You can learn the
          skills to build your boat. Remember there was a day you could not walk or
          use the toilet. You fell down some and had a few messes but now you have
          those skills. So when you start working on your boat you will fall down
          some and have a few messes but in the end you will have a boat that you
          built with your own hands. The first day you take your hand made boat on
          the water will be a spacial moment in your life that you will always
          remember.

          --
          John <jkohnen@...>
          http://www.boat-links.com/
          Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless
          they meet two conditions:
          1. He is a Greek
          2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>
        • John Cupp
          I did send this link to the fellow that asked me about the Atkin designs. I appreciate your explanation about all of the building for the fellow that asked
          Message 4 of 12 , May 14 10:19 PM
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            I did send this link to the fellow that asked me about the Atkin
            designs. I appreciate your explanation about all of the building
            for the fellow that asked me. I am a writer for a couple of
            magazines that are for boat builders. I have built many planked
            boats over forty feet and steel boats longer than 100'. I am very
            familiar with swelling wood but I cant see how using a hammer and
            iron to stuff caulking in seams is any easier that using a
            controlled amount of epoxy and the sealing the wood so that no
            swelling takes place at all. Besides I have repaired many planked
            hulls and they need re-caulking if you do your maintenance right
            about every seven or eight years. With strip planking and cold
            molding the hull might last fifty years without any type of wood
            damage or repairs. I have rebuilt many wooden fishing boats that
            used cheap plated nails that rust and destroy the planking around
            them through electrolysis and rot. Some of the boats had iron
            plated fitting, perfect for building on the cheap but I use silicon
            bronze screws or ring shanked nails. And scrounging up 316 stainless
            for fitting is sort of a hobby of mine and they don't rust and fall
            off like plated iron. Besides strip planking and cold molding are
            often cheaper than planking because planking is very hard to find
            and I have wood milled from a friends portable mill that I bring him
            for $0.50 a board foot .

            I would not change any Atkin design and at best I think now that a
            soft dodger would be fine because my wife would not like being out
            in any storms. The Little Ranger would be in tropical waters when I
            sail to Mexico and I have seen the borer damage that occurs south of
            the border in Mexico. Planked hulls and big uncovered wooden
            rudders are eaten away inside a year. I my self can't stand a steel
            hull, you roast in the heat and freeze in the cold. I am also
            familiar with lofting and built my first boat when I was eight years
            old. It was a skin on frame kayak but still a boat and I have not
            stopped building since then.. I had a Chappel boat building book
            given to me on my tenth birthday and it explains lofting better than
            most..

            I have emailed Pat Atkin and explained about my reader and also my
            cruising desires with Little Ranger. I have fished hundreds of
            miles off the coats for Tuna in a double ended Monterey hulled
            boat. I want a good boat under me with my wife and sister's family
            sailing with me and none are better than a good double ender.
            Besides I might even take it farther south than Mexico so who knows
            if it would just stay in the NW? My wife expressed the desire to go
            to Australia a few days ago and I think little ranger would do that
            very easily. Since I am not as young as I once was I would like
            as little heavy maintenance as possible. I never liked taking short
            cuts when building and I think an Atkin design does not allow that.
            Besides I would not allow it on my boat and that includes the engine.

            I did not actually know that the Atkin plans were still for sale and
            it makes me very happy that such boats are still going to be built
            from the original plan and not some other designers concept of what
            they should be. Thank you for all the information!

            John Cupp
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Johnstoolcrib/






            .






            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
            > Well put Lon.
            >
            > Few of us are so innately inept that we can't learn to build a
            boat.
            > Depending on how our minds work, some of us can get a head start
            from books,
            > some from step-by-step plans, and some of us might do better if
            shown some
            > of the tricks -- or various combinations of the above for most of
            us,
            > probably -- but it's not rocket science, and we can do it. For the
            simple
            > boats in the Atkin catalog there's enough in the MoToR BoatinG
            articles for
            > most tyros to figure out how to build the boats, and then they can
            use that
            > knowledge as a leg-up towards building bigger and more complicated
            projects.
            >
            > I have nothing against the many "instant" type boat plans (except I
            > personally don't like working with lots of goop), but I think their
            > designers capitalize on the lack of confidence many amateurs seem
            to suffer
            > nowadays. "Oh, I couldn't ever build a boat, but this doesn't look
            like
            > building a boat, with no lofting or bevels or close fits. I could
            do that!"
            > they think. But they _can_ build a boat the old-fashioned way,
            lots of
            > amateurs have, all it takes is some patience and a bit of gumption
            to take
            > the first step. And you don't need a shop full of expensive tools.
            Other
            > than the hammers and saws and drills everybody has around (but get
            the saws
            > or blades sharpened) a plane or two and a few chisels are about
            all you
            > need, and they can usually be found at a local junk store.
            >
            > The most important requirement for any kind of boatbuilding is the
            ability
            > to start a project and see it through to completion. It helps a
            lot if you
            > enjoy the building itself. If you're most interested in getting on
            the water
            > you'll be better off buying a boat. I enjoy making chips and
            sawdust, I
            > don't enjoy smearing goop. I'm not too bad of a woodworker but,
            alas, I have
            > trouble getting projects started and finishing them (the part in
            between
            > usually isn't a problem). <sigh> But I have launched a boat I
            built with my
            > own hands (and little goop) and it sure did feel good! :o)
            >
            > On Mon, 9 May 2005 01:10:03 -0700 (PDT), Lon wrote:
            > > ...
            > > Both father and son had built boats and were two of the most
            prolific
            > designers with close to 900 designs. So when you study your
            prints you will
            > see that Atkin knew how to design a boat for the water and the
            builder.
            > >
            > > Blueprints are a language from the designer to the builder.
            Like a music
            > score is from the composer to the musician, sheet music does not
            show you
            > how to play a instrument it tells you how to play a song. You can
            learn the
            > skills to build your boat. Remember there was a day you could not
            walk or
            > use the toilet. You fell down some and had a few messes but now
            you have
            > those skills. So when you start working on your boat you will
            fall down
            > some and have a few messes but in the end you will have a boat
            that you
            > built with your own hands. The first day you take your hand made
            boat on
            > the water will be a spacial moment in your life that you will
            always
            > remember.
            >
            > --
            > John <jkohnen@b...>
            > http://www.boat-links.com/
            > Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless
            > they meet two conditions:
            > 1. He is a Greek
            > 2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>
          • Wayne
            ... from books, ... shown some ... us, ... simple ... articles for ... use that ... projects. ... to suffer ... like ... do that! ... of ... to take ... Other
            Message 5 of 12 , May 17 8:16 AM
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              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
              > Well put Lon.
              >
              > Few of us are so innately inept that we can't learn to build a boat.
              > Depending on how our minds work, some of us can get a head start
              from books,
              > some from step-by-step plans, and some of us might do better if
              shown some
              > of the tricks -- or various combinations of the above for most of
              us,
              > probably -- but it's not rocket science, and we can do it. For the
              simple
              > boats in the Atkin catalog there's enough in the MoToR BoatinG
              articles for
              > most tyros to figure out how to build the boats, and then they can
              use that
              > knowledge as a leg-up towards building bigger and more complicated
              projects.
              >
              > I have nothing against the many "instant" type boat plans (except I
              > personally don't like working with lots of goop), but I think their
              > designers capitalize on the lack of confidence many amateurs seem
              to suffer
              > nowadays. "Oh, I couldn't ever build a boat, but this doesn't look
              like
              > building a boat, with no lofting or bevels or close fits. I could
              do that!"
              > they think. But they _can_ build a boat the old-fashioned way, lots
              of
              > amateurs have, all it takes is some patience and a bit of gumption
              to take
              > the first step. And you don't need a shop full of expensive tools.
              Other
              > than the hammers and saws and drills everybody has around (but get
              the saws
              > or blades sharpened) a plane or two and a few chisels are about all
              you
              > need, and they can usually be found at a local junk store.
              >
              > The most important requirement for any kind of boatbuilding is the
              ability
              > to start a project and see it through to completion. It helps a lot
              if you
              > enjoy the building itself. If you're most interested in getting on
              the water
              > you'll be better off buying a boat. I enjoy making chips and
              sawdust, I
              > don't enjoy smearing goop. I'm not too bad of a woodworker but,
              alas, I have
              > trouble getting projects started and finishing them (the part in
              between
              > usually isn't a problem). <sigh> But I have launched a boat I built
              with my
              > own hands (and little goop) and it sure did feel good! :o)

              John,

              Keep talking and you will convince me that I can build a boat. Having
              never done it before. Not owning any tools worth mentioning. All
              thumbs and two left feet. I've been dreaming about this longer than I
              care to admit. One of these days, by golly I'm going to do it.

              Wayne
              In the Swamp.
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