Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Atkin plans, how much detail and what come with them

Expand Messages
  • Wayne
    ... Purely personal opinion based on what several folks have said about such adhesives below the waterline: you d be asking for trouble. The boat would be
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 26 7:19 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dolph" <jdolph@s...> wrote:
      ...I'd probably leave it at strip planked with out
      > sheathing of any kind with marine adhesive (3M or Sikaflex) between
      > the strips.
      >
      > John Dolph

      Purely personal opinion based on what several folks have said about
      such adhesives below the waterline: you'd be asking for trouble. The
      boat would be stonger and longer lasting with nothing but galvanized
      nails holding the strips together. The way strip planked boats were
      originally built.

      Wayne
      In the Swamp.
    • DirtSailor
      I must inquire as to what kind of strip built we are refering too. My assumption from the original post would be that the inner layer would be stripped then
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 26 7:33 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        I must inquire as to what kind of strip built we are
        refering too. My assumption from the original post
        would be that the inner layer would be stripped then
        sheathed over much like a stripper canoe. The second
        post sounds more like plank on frame, with a form of
        caulking, may it be cotton, Sika or otherwise, between
        the planks which when full of water swell up and seal.
        Are these assumptions correct?

        As for the plans, The plans for Trim that I purchased
        include the original article, boy I wish the bill of
        materials still cost what is listed! Any one have
        plans fora time machine? All the other information
        needed to build the boat is there, however, it does
        require full lofting, so one would need to be skilled
        in laying down lines. I must say that the
        Draftsmanship is superb. I work in the residential
        design business and since the advent of computers I
        know I couldn't draft like that anymore. It is my
        opinion that the price of the plans are well worth
        what is there.

        DirtSailor

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com
      • John Cupp
        Thank you for the answers about the plans. To answer your question about strip planking then cold molding over the top of that, I would first take small strips
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 27 5:17 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Thank you for the answers about the plans.

          To answer your question about strip planking then cold molding over
          the top of that, I would first take small strips that had a bull
          nose profile on one side and a fitting hollow on the other. You
          have to put in sub frames to get the curve of the boat right when
          doing this. They are removed after strip planking is done. You use
          epoxy to glue down each strip so that there are no holes and you can
          even use white oak strips on the bottom and red cedar from the
          waterline up. I have been experimenting and when you add a new type
          of dye to the epoxy it looks like small stripes between the wood
          strips of any color you wish and the interior looks great where it
          has to be exposed when this is done. They even make gold metal
          flake dye if you want to get very fancy. On any type of laminations
          it looks dynamite also. Especially knees

          Once all the strips are in place you cold mold the hull by placing
          veneer at 90% angles across each other in two different layers sort
          of like a radial tire. Then final layer of veneer that lays front
          to back. these layers are made from western red cedar and if you
          only use cold molding it can be as light as a carbon fiber craft.
          The strip planking gives a little more material to epoxy the cold
          molding strips to, plus it makes the inner frames work like the
          designer wanted so the boat is much stiffer than just cold molding.
          So you can't get 1/2" strips 45' long but you can finger joint the
          strips before you run them through the router to put the bull nose
          and hollows on them. That way the finger joint is much stronger than
          a plain scarf joint with about four times the glued surface. When
          you epoxy then down you can use string to make them stay tied down
          or you can use a nail gun with the settings so the 18 gauge brad is
          still above the surface and is pulled out before you cold mold over
          that. It takes more time to build like this but it is much less
          expensive in the long run.

          When you cold mold the veneer down you use staples but they are also
          pulled and the hole epoxied over before the next layer is put down.
          They make very fair hulls and the weight is tons lighter than
          planking a hull. In fact that is the way companies make moulds for
          fiberglass hulls. They make a male hull then cover it with plastic
          and make a female hull from the first hull like I will be making.
          They then fair the inside of the female mould with bondo to make is
          glass smooth then they can build a plastic boat inside of that.

          Many catamarans are made by cold molding the hulls and next to
          carbon fiber which by the way must bake in a giant oven is the
          lightest way to build any hull. They have giant sloops over 150'
          lon built from the cold molding process The red Cedar with epoxy
          stops any type of marine borer from eating wood hulls in the
          southern latitudes. Marine borers just love planked boats unless
          you use anti fouling paint and fiberglass sheeting Even then when
          you rub the dead wood on a coral head or sandy beach you rub off
          your protection and marine borers can eat a doug fir boat in one
          season of tropical sailing. A very good book to read about Cold
          Molding is by John Guzzwell. The Book's name is Modern Wooden Yacht
          Construction , cold molding, Joinery and Fitting Out. He actually
          built a Jay Benford double ended boat that is a near cousin to the
          Atkin Eric. Jay references the Atkin's double enders often. The
          35' cold molded motor sailer that John Guzzwell builds uses more
          lead ballast in the keel because the whole boat is so much lighter.
          You have more weight to use for fuel and supplies not to mention
          better speed and no bilge water leaking from stuffed seams. Being
          completely sealed from moisture the red cedar stays in place and the
          hulls when they are on the hard being painted don't shrink and leak.

          William Atkin died just before cold molding became popular but I am
          sure with his shallow draft tunnel hulled boats he would have been
          delighted to see a material that could make the type of bends and
          curves needed to make those hulls work their best and very easy for
          a home builder to use.

          John

          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, DirtSailor <dirtsailor2003@y...>
          wrote:
          > I must inquire as to what kind of strip built we are
          > refering too. My assumption from the original post
          > would be that the inner layer would be stripped then
          > sheathed over much like a stripper canoe. The second
          > post sounds more like plank on frame, with a form of
          > caulking, may it be cotton, Sika or otherwise, between
          > the planks which when full of water swell up and seal.
          > Are these assumptions correct?
          >
          > As for the plans, The plans for Trim that I purchased
          > include the original article, boy I wish the bill of
          > materials still cost what is listed! Any one have
          > plans fora time machine? All the other information
          > needed to build the boat is there, however, it does
          > require full lofting, so one would need to be skilled
          > in laying down lines. I must say that the
          > Draftsmanship is superb. I work in the residential
          > design business and since the advent of computers I
          > know I couldn't draft like that anymore. It is my
          > opinion that the price of the plans are well worth
          > what is there.
          >
          > DirtSailor
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
        • jkohnen@boat-links.com
          Here s a belated reply. I was hoping someone who has bought the plans for one of the large Atkin boats would pipe up and tell us about them. You see, I
          Message 4 of 12 , May 8, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Here's a belated reply. I was hoping someone who has bought the plans for
            one of the large Atkin boats would pipe up and tell us about them. <shrug>
            You see, I haven't actually seen the entire plans for any of the large
            boats. From the bits and pieces I've seen I'd say that there are lines
            drawings and offsets; interior layout; construction profile, plan and
            several cross sections; sail plan and good drawings of the rigging details
            and any unusual bits and pieces elsewhere in the boat. There won't be any
            step by step details on interior construction, and the designer(s) assume
            that the builder knows how to build a boat, so there will be no how-to
            instruction about the building process. Most of the plans come with a
            reprint of the MoToR BoatinG article about the boat, which explains the
            general construction. The plans that weren't published in MoToR BoatinG
            probably don't come with any text that isn't on the drawings, but the
            drawings are complete enough for anyone who knows how to build a boat. All
            but a couple of the small, simple boats in the catalog require lofting -- a
            good idea anyway, my sole experience with full-size templates wasn't a happy
            one. :o(

            What if you don't know how to build a boat? There are several books that
            will tell you enough about boatbuilding to get you started. The Atkin boats
            are built traditional style. H. I. Chapelle's Boatbuilding and Robert
            Steward's Boatbuilding Manual are good books about regular wood
            construction. Boatbuilding with Plywood by Glen L. Witt is a good book about
            the "sticks and nails" type of plywood construction the Atkins intended. You
            can buy these books through the Atkin site (and I get a kickback! <g>):

            http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Books/

            If you have no experience building boats the old-fasioned way you really
            should build one of the smaller boats in the catalog before tackilng one of
            the big boats.

            --
            John <jkohnen@...>
            http://www.boat-links.com/
            The trouble with the school of experience
            is that the graduates are too old to go to work. <Henry Ford>
          • jkohnen@boat-links.com
            Any additional deck structure will adversely affect performance, but if you keep a hard dodger or pilothouse as low and light as possible it might not hurt
            Message 5 of 12 , May 8, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Any additional deck structure will adversely affect performance, but if you
              keep a hard dodger or pilothouse as low and light as possible it might not
              hurt things much. Of equal importance, all too often the "improvements"
              people make to the superstructures of their boats spoil the looks, if they
              don't end up making the poor boat butt-ugly. <sigh> A recent example is the
              little Fenwick Williams canoe yawl in the latest Wooden Boat, where a few
              inches extra height in the cabin sides an some extra crown in the top made
              the cabin look ungainly.

              For a boat the size of Little Ranger traditional carvel construction is best
              in the long run. You aren't going to be trailering a boat that size, so
              there's no harm in the swelling. Strip and cold-molded construction is more
              expensive and involves working with lots of unpleasant goop. :ob Regular old
              plank-on-frame construction is infinitely repairable too, you can build a
              boat that way that will last for generations with a little care.

              A complete neophyte can easily build some of the small, simple Atkin designs
              from the plans and accompanying MoToR BoatinG article. For the more complex
              small boats the neophyte should study some of the books on boatbuilding
              available through the page below. With the help of the books they should be
              able to build any of the small boats if they're reasonably handy:

              http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Books/index.html

              On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:14:08 -0000, John C wrote:
              > ...
              > I joined this group out of curiosity because a reader of my column
              > emailed me about the Atkin plans and wanted to know what they
              > contained. After looking at the plans and seeing the boats I might
              > just build one of these for my vacation boat to Mexico every
              > winter.
              > ...
              > I have been looking at the Little Ranger.
              > ...
              > but I wonder if a pilothouse/hard dodger
              > would come under those restraints? I have been thinking of strip
              > planking with cold molding over that to make a hull that will not
              > swell with water infiltration. The pilot house is so I can keep
              > green cold Pacific water off my back and boots when I have to beat
              > back north through the many storms that are in the Pacific at that
              > time of year. Plus I can always put up two extra people in hammocks
              > inside the confines of a pilot house.
              > ...
              > In any case could someone who has a set of plans fill me in about
              > the content and if a complete neophyte could build one of the
              > smaller designs.
              > ...

              --
              John <jkohnen@...>
              http://www.boat-links.com/
              After all, all he did was string together a lot of old,
              well-known quotations. <H. L. Mencken on Shakespeare>
            • jkohnen@boat-links.com
              Now that I m started I can t stop putting in my two cents! The Atkins assumed that anyone tackling the big boats would be familiar with general
              Message 6 of 12 , May 8, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Now that I'm started I can't stop putting in my two cents! <g> The Atkins
                assumed that anyone tackling the big boats would be familiar with general
                boatbuilding. A neophyte would be foolish to start in on a boat like Little
                Ranger without having a smaller plank-on-frame boat under their belt.

                Little Ranger will spend most of her life (all of it in mild climates like
                the NW) in the water. If strip-planked, the strips will swell up and stay
                sealed without any goop between the strips, so it makes little sense to go
                through the mess and expense. If the boat ever fell into neglect and spent a
                lot of time out of the water the strips would shrink to smaller width than
                when they were new. If the 5200 was still sticking it might hold tight
                enough to split the strips, if it failed, you'd have a whole bunch of s**t
                to reef out of the seams. :o( Without goop, even if you can see light
                through the seams after a few years on the hard, they'll swell tight again
                when you get the boat back in the water.

                I'd thought that strip-planking was newer, maybe arising in the 1920s or so,
                but a fellow I know has a strip-planked rowboat built on Coos Bay in the
                1890s. No goop between the strips of course. <g> There were lots of sawmills
                around the bay back then and they probably used edge-cut scraps and resawn
                rejected planks for the strips -- free or nearly so wood -- just like the
                first strip-builders Back East...

                On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 00:53:32 -0000, John D wrote:
                > ...
                > If a neophyte like me was building
                > something like Little Ranger I'd want lots of advice and drawings of
                > all structural subsystems like engine beds, mast steps, and very
                > specific directions/drawings on how to assemble that keel, stem, and
                > deadwood/shaft log. I'd probably leave it at strip planked with out
                > sheathing of any kind with marine adhesive (3M or Sikaflex) between
                > the strips.
                > ...

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                http://www.boat-links.com/
                One boat just leads to another.
                <John Kohnen>
              • lon wells
                Both John and William Atkin were well versed in the art of Drafting. I appreciate well done prints and I can be very critical. Based on the Levee Belle prints
                Message 7 of 12 , May 9, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Both John and William Atkin were well versed in the art of Drafting. I appreciate well done prints and I can be very critical. Based on the Levee Belle prints I bought. Their prints are very well done with alot of attention to detail. These are hand done blueprints before the days of Cad. You could frame these prints as marine art. I have worked on Navy Prints and commercial Shipbuilding prints Atkin is equal to the best of these.

                  Pat Atkin who is a artist with a eye for detail wrote me a note about the Levee Belle prints that even she could not tell the difference between John's work and William's on the drafting boards.

                  Both father and son had built boats and were two of the most prolific designers with close to 900 designs. So when you study your prints you will see that Atkin knew how to design a boat for the water and the builder.

                  Blueprints are a language from the designer to the builder. Like a music score is from the composer to the musician, sheet music does not show you how to play a instrument it tells you how to play a song. You can learn the skills to build your boat. Remember there was a day you could not walk or use the toilet. You fell down some and had a few messes but now you have those skills. So when you start working on your boat you will fall down some and have a few messes but in the end you will have a boat that you built with your own hands. The first day you take your hand made boat on the water will be a spacial moment in your life that you will always remember.
                  Good luck shipmate
                  Lon





                  ---------------------------------
                  Yahoo! Mail Mobile
                  Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • jkohnen@boat-links.com
                  Well put Lon. Few of us are so innately inept that we can t learn to build a boat. Depending on how our minds work, some of us can get a head start from books,
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 11, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Well put Lon.

                    Few of us are so innately inept that we can't learn to build a boat.
                    Depending on how our minds work, some of us can get a head start from books,
                    some from step-by-step plans, and some of us might do better if shown some
                    of the tricks -- or various combinations of the above for most of us,
                    probably -- but it's not rocket science, and we can do it. For the simple
                    boats in the Atkin catalog there's enough in the MoToR BoatinG articles for
                    most tyros to figure out how to build the boats, and then they can use that
                    knowledge as a leg-up towards building bigger and more complicated projects.

                    I have nothing against the many "instant" type boat plans (except I
                    personally don't like working with lots of goop), but I think their
                    designers capitalize on the lack of confidence many amateurs seem to suffer
                    nowadays. "Oh, I couldn't ever build a boat, but this doesn't look like
                    building a boat, with no lofting or bevels or close fits. I could do that!"
                    they think. But they _can_ build a boat the old-fashioned way, lots of
                    amateurs have, all it takes is some patience and a bit of gumption to take
                    the first step. And you don't need a shop full of expensive tools. Other
                    than the hammers and saws and drills everybody has around (but get the saws
                    or blades sharpened) a plane or two and a few chisels are about all you
                    need, and they can usually be found at a local junk store.

                    The most important requirement for any kind of boatbuilding is the ability
                    to start a project and see it through to completion. It helps a lot if you
                    enjoy the building itself. If you're most interested in getting on the water
                    you'll be better off buying a boat. I enjoy making chips and sawdust, I
                    don't enjoy smearing goop. I'm not too bad of a woodworker but, alas, I have
                    trouble getting projects started and finishing them (the part in between
                    usually isn't a problem). <sigh> But I have launched a boat I built with my
                    own hands (and little goop) and it sure did feel good! :o)

                    On Mon, 9 May 2005 01:10:03 -0700 (PDT), Lon wrote:
                    > ...
                    > Both father and son had built boats and were two of the most prolific
                    designers with close to 900 designs. So when you study your prints you will
                    see that Atkin knew how to design a boat for the water and the builder.
                    >
                    > Blueprints are a language from the designer to the builder. Like a music
                    score is from the composer to the musician, sheet music does not show you
                    how to play a instrument it tells you how to play a song. You can learn the
                    skills to build your boat. Remember there was a day you could not walk or
                    use the toilet. You fell down some and had a few messes but now you have
                    those skills. So when you start working on your boat you will fall down
                    some and have a few messes but in the end you will have a boat that you
                    built with your own hands. The first day you take your hand made boat on
                    the water will be a spacial moment in your life that you will always
                    remember.

                    --
                    John <jkohnen@...>
                    http://www.boat-links.com/
                    Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless
                    they meet two conditions:
                    1. He is a Greek
                    2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>
                  • John Cupp
                    I did send this link to the fellow that asked me about the Atkin designs. I appreciate your explanation about all of the building for the fellow that asked
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 14, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I did send this link to the fellow that asked me about the Atkin
                      designs. I appreciate your explanation about all of the building
                      for the fellow that asked me. I am a writer for a couple of
                      magazines that are for boat builders. I have built many planked
                      boats over forty feet and steel boats longer than 100'. I am very
                      familiar with swelling wood but I cant see how using a hammer and
                      iron to stuff caulking in seams is any easier that using a
                      controlled amount of epoxy and the sealing the wood so that no
                      swelling takes place at all. Besides I have repaired many planked
                      hulls and they need re-caulking if you do your maintenance right
                      about every seven or eight years. With strip planking and cold
                      molding the hull might last fifty years without any type of wood
                      damage or repairs. I have rebuilt many wooden fishing boats that
                      used cheap plated nails that rust and destroy the planking around
                      them through electrolysis and rot. Some of the boats had iron
                      plated fitting, perfect for building on the cheap but I use silicon
                      bronze screws or ring shanked nails. And scrounging up 316 stainless
                      for fitting is sort of a hobby of mine and they don't rust and fall
                      off like plated iron. Besides strip planking and cold molding are
                      often cheaper than planking because planking is very hard to find
                      and I have wood milled from a friends portable mill that I bring him
                      for $0.50 a board foot .

                      I would not change any Atkin design and at best I think now that a
                      soft dodger would be fine because my wife would not like being out
                      in any storms. The Little Ranger would be in tropical waters when I
                      sail to Mexico and I have seen the borer damage that occurs south of
                      the border in Mexico. Planked hulls and big uncovered wooden
                      rudders are eaten away inside a year. I my self can't stand a steel
                      hull, you roast in the heat and freeze in the cold. I am also
                      familiar with lofting and built my first boat when I was eight years
                      old. It was a skin on frame kayak but still a boat and I have not
                      stopped building since then.. I had a Chappel boat building book
                      given to me on my tenth birthday and it explains lofting better than
                      most..

                      I have emailed Pat Atkin and explained about my reader and also my
                      cruising desires with Little Ranger. I have fished hundreds of
                      miles off the coats for Tuna in a double ended Monterey hulled
                      boat. I want a good boat under me with my wife and sister's family
                      sailing with me and none are better than a good double ender.
                      Besides I might even take it farther south than Mexico so who knows
                      if it would just stay in the NW? My wife expressed the desire to go
                      to Australia a few days ago and I think little ranger would do that
                      very easily. Since I am not as young as I once was I would like
                      as little heavy maintenance as possible. I never liked taking short
                      cuts when building and I think an Atkin design does not allow that.
                      Besides I would not allow it on my boat and that includes the engine.

                      I did not actually know that the Atkin plans were still for sale and
                      it makes me very happy that such boats are still going to be built
                      from the original plan and not some other designers concept of what
                      they should be. Thank you for all the information!

                      John Cupp
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Johnstoolcrib/






                      .






                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
                      > Well put Lon.
                      >
                      > Few of us are so innately inept that we can't learn to build a
                      boat.
                      > Depending on how our minds work, some of us can get a head start
                      from books,
                      > some from step-by-step plans, and some of us might do better if
                      shown some
                      > of the tricks -- or various combinations of the above for most of
                      us,
                      > probably -- but it's not rocket science, and we can do it. For the
                      simple
                      > boats in the Atkin catalog there's enough in the MoToR BoatinG
                      articles for
                      > most tyros to figure out how to build the boats, and then they can
                      use that
                      > knowledge as a leg-up towards building bigger and more complicated
                      projects.
                      >
                      > I have nothing against the many "instant" type boat plans (except I
                      > personally don't like working with lots of goop), but I think their
                      > designers capitalize on the lack of confidence many amateurs seem
                      to suffer
                      > nowadays. "Oh, I couldn't ever build a boat, but this doesn't look
                      like
                      > building a boat, with no lofting or bevels or close fits. I could
                      do that!"
                      > they think. But they _can_ build a boat the old-fashioned way,
                      lots of
                      > amateurs have, all it takes is some patience and a bit of gumption
                      to take
                      > the first step. And you don't need a shop full of expensive tools.
                      Other
                      > than the hammers and saws and drills everybody has around (but get
                      the saws
                      > or blades sharpened) a plane or two and a few chisels are about
                      all you
                      > need, and they can usually be found at a local junk store.
                      >
                      > The most important requirement for any kind of boatbuilding is the
                      ability
                      > to start a project and see it through to completion. It helps a
                      lot if you
                      > enjoy the building itself. If you're most interested in getting on
                      the water
                      > you'll be better off buying a boat. I enjoy making chips and
                      sawdust, I
                      > don't enjoy smearing goop. I'm not too bad of a woodworker but,
                      alas, I have
                      > trouble getting projects started and finishing them (the part in
                      between
                      > usually isn't a problem). <sigh> But I have launched a boat I
                      built with my
                      > own hands (and little goop) and it sure did feel good! :o)
                      >
                      > On Mon, 9 May 2005 01:10:03 -0700 (PDT), Lon wrote:
                      > > ...
                      > > Both father and son had built boats and were two of the most
                      prolific
                      > designers with close to 900 designs. So when you study your
                      prints you will
                      > see that Atkin knew how to design a boat for the water and the
                      builder.
                      > >
                      > > Blueprints are a language from the designer to the builder.
                      Like a music
                      > score is from the composer to the musician, sheet music does not
                      show you
                      > how to play a instrument it tells you how to play a song. You can
                      learn the
                      > skills to build your boat. Remember there was a day you could not
                      walk or
                      > use the toilet. You fell down some and had a few messes but now
                      you have
                      > those skills. So when you start working on your boat you will
                      fall down
                      > some and have a few messes but in the end you will have a boat
                      that you
                      > built with your own hands. The first day you take your hand made
                      boat on
                      > the water will be a spacial moment in your life that you will
                      always
                      > remember.
                      >
                      > --
                      > John <jkohnen@b...>
                      > http://www.boat-links.com/
                      > Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless
                      > they meet two conditions:
                      > 1. He is a Greek
                      > 2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>
                    • Wayne
                      ... from books, ... shown some ... us, ... simple ... articles for ... use that ... projects. ... to suffer ... like ... do that! ... of ... to take ... Other
                      Message 10 of 12 , May 17, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
                        > Well put Lon.
                        >
                        > Few of us are so innately inept that we can't learn to build a boat.
                        > Depending on how our minds work, some of us can get a head start
                        from books,
                        > some from step-by-step plans, and some of us might do better if
                        shown some
                        > of the tricks -- or various combinations of the above for most of
                        us,
                        > probably -- but it's not rocket science, and we can do it. For the
                        simple
                        > boats in the Atkin catalog there's enough in the MoToR BoatinG
                        articles for
                        > most tyros to figure out how to build the boats, and then they can
                        use that
                        > knowledge as a leg-up towards building bigger and more complicated
                        projects.
                        >
                        > I have nothing against the many "instant" type boat plans (except I
                        > personally don't like working with lots of goop), but I think their
                        > designers capitalize on the lack of confidence many amateurs seem
                        to suffer
                        > nowadays. "Oh, I couldn't ever build a boat, but this doesn't look
                        like
                        > building a boat, with no lofting or bevels or close fits. I could
                        do that!"
                        > they think. But they _can_ build a boat the old-fashioned way, lots
                        of
                        > amateurs have, all it takes is some patience and a bit of gumption
                        to take
                        > the first step. And you don't need a shop full of expensive tools.
                        Other
                        > than the hammers and saws and drills everybody has around (but get
                        the saws
                        > or blades sharpened) a plane or two and a few chisels are about all
                        you
                        > need, and they can usually be found at a local junk store.
                        >
                        > The most important requirement for any kind of boatbuilding is the
                        ability
                        > to start a project and see it through to completion. It helps a lot
                        if you
                        > enjoy the building itself. If you're most interested in getting on
                        the water
                        > you'll be better off buying a boat. I enjoy making chips and
                        sawdust, I
                        > don't enjoy smearing goop. I'm not too bad of a woodworker but,
                        alas, I have
                        > trouble getting projects started and finishing them (the part in
                        between
                        > usually isn't a problem). <sigh> But I have launched a boat I built
                        with my
                        > own hands (and little goop) and it sure did feel good! :o)

                        John,

                        Keep talking and you will convince me that I can build a boat. Having
                        never done it before. Not owning any tools worth mentioning. All
                        thumbs and two left feet. I've been dreaming about this longer than I
                        care to admit. One of these days, by golly I'm going to do it.

                        Wayne
                        In the Swamp.
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.