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Re: Small air cooled inboard motors

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  • dmede808
    Thanks for the shaft load conversion, thats good to know. I agree, 1:1 at those rpms is probably not ideal. They seem to be easy enough to get here in the
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 11 11:47 AM
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      Thanks for the shaft load conversion, thats good to know. I agree, 1:1 at those rpms is
      probably not ideal. They seem to be easy enough to get here in the US. Quite a few
      dealers including online (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/
      ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=347&R=347)

      They range between $1500 - $1900 I think.

      The issue I am running into is getting info on suitable gearboxes. HATZ lists several
      gearboxes in thier "additional equipment" PDF online but the main US dealer doesn't seem
      to now anything about them. Without a bolt on option for neutral, reverse and gear
      reduction I may not be able to use these motors. I am also concerned that the higher
      RPMs with the single cylinder will cause more vibration than the Palmer Baby Husky spec'd
      for this boat.

      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Intersting line of engines. I notice that the 1B40 model is available
      > with a counter rotating balancing option which might be useful. Also,
      > the axial load on the PTO shaft was given as 1200 newtons. If I
      > converted correctly, this is 269.7 pounds. I cannot imagine the prop
      > and shaft loading coming close to this figure, but I don't know how to
      > caculate the force either. And, who would want to drive the prop at
      > 1:1 with direct hookup?
      >
      > The weights are extremely low and the allowable tilt angle is
      > generous. The agriculture units I have looked at here in Nicaragua are
      > much heavier. What is the availability and cost of these engines
      > stateside?
      >
      > Lewis
      > Still searching for a suitable boat to build here for Lake Nicaragua!
      >
      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "dmede808" <dmede808@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > No problem Mike. I appreciate the help. I do know about the thrust
      > bearing issue. There
      > > is a load spec for the PTO bearing on the HATZ but I dont have any
      > idea what the prop and
      > > shaft thrust load will be, or how to calculate it.
      > >
      > > HATZ has several gearbox options for those motors and I may use one
      > for gear reduction
      > > and reverse gearing if possible. Hopefully that gearbox will be
      > able to take the thrust load
      > > but if not I'll have to rig an inline thrust bearing. Mcmaster Carr
      > has pillow-block bearings
      > > that may do the job.
    • Lewis E. Gordon
      Here is the link for ZF/Hurth marine transmission web site. Select transmissions/engine matching program/select brands for a list of supported manufactures. It
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 11 9:18 PM
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        Here is the link for ZF/Hurth marine transmission web site. Select
        transmissions/engine matching program/select brands for a list of
        supported manufactures. It is interesting that Hatz is not listed for
        any model. The prices shown on Northern Tool seem a little high. For
        that money you can get a Kubota like Mr. White has on his Rescue
        Minor. That is one good engine and 800 hours already? Wow!

        If you want to use a smaller industrial engine like the HATZ, you will
        have to do some improvising with a belt drive like Mr. White did. I'm
        sorry to hear that he no longer has a reverse gear. He's right that
        it's not used much, but still for the peace of mind.... (Who am I to
        talk? I'm missing a spring on my 30 HP Tohatsu and I don't have
        reverse now either.)

        Good luck!

        Lewis


        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "dmede808" <dmede808@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks for the shaft load conversion, thats good to know. I agree,
        1:1 at those rpms is
        > probably not ideal. They seem to be easy enough to get here in the
        US. Quite a few
        > dealers including online
        (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/
        > ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=347&R=347)
        >
        > They range between $1500 - $1900 I think.
        >
        > The issue I am running into is getting info on suitable gearboxes.
        HATZ lists several
        > gearboxes in thier "additional equipment" PDF online but the main US
        dealer doesn't seem
        > to now anything about them. Without a bolt on option for neutral,
        reverse and gear
        > reduction I may not be able to use these motors. I am also
        concerned that the higher
        > RPMs with the single cylinder will cause more vibration than the
        Palmer Baby Husky spec'd
        > for this boat.
        >
      • Lewis E. Gordon
        I m sorry! I forget the link: http://zf-marine.com/ZFR/index.cfm
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 11 9:20 PM
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          I'm sorry! I forget the link:

          http://zf-marine.com/ZFR/index.cfm


          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon"
          <l_gordon_nica@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Here is the link for ZF/Hurth marine transmission web site. Select
          > transmissions/engine matching program/select brands for a list of
          > supported manufactures. It is interesting that Hatz is not listed for
          > any model. The prices shown on Northern Tool seem a little high. For
          > that money you can get a Kubota like Mr. White has on his Rescue
          > Minor. That is one good engine and 800 hours already? Wow!
          >
          > If you want to use a smaller industrial engine like the HATZ, you will
          > have to do some improvising with a belt drive like Mr. White did. I'm
          > sorry to hear that he no longer has a reverse gear. He's right that
          > it's not used much, but still for the peace of mind.... (Who am I to
          > talk? I'm missing a spring on my 30 HP Tohatsu and I don't have
          > reverse now either.)
          >
          > Good luck!
          >
          > Lewis
          >
          >
          > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "dmede808" <dmede808@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Thanks for the shaft load conversion, thats good to know. I agree,
          > 1:1 at those rpms is
          > > probably not ideal. They seem to be easy enough to get here in the
          > US. Quite a few
          > > dealers including online
          > (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/
          > > ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=347&R=347)
          > >
          > > They range between $1500 - $1900 I think.
          > >
          > > The issue I am running into is getting info on suitable gearboxes.
          > HATZ lists several
          > > gearboxes in thier "additional equipment" PDF online but the main US
          > dealer doesn't seem
          > > to now anything about them. Without a bolt on option for neutral,
          > reverse and gear
          > > reduction I may not be able to use these motors. I am also
          > concerned that the higher
          > > RPMs with the single cylinder will cause more vibration than the
          > Palmer Baby Husky spec'd
          > > for this boat.
          > >
        • jkohnen@boat-links.com
          The Atkins specified a two-bladed, Type E Columbian, 10 inches in diameter b 6 inches in pitch. The speed of the skiff should be a good 8 m.p.h. The Baby
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 12 2:11 PM
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            The Atkins specified a "two-bladed, Type E Columbian, 10 inches in diameter
            b 6 inches in pitch. The speed of the skiff should be a good 8 m.p.h." The
            Baby Huskie (BH) had a bore of 3 1/16" and a stroke of 3 1/2" for a
            displacement of 25 cu. in.

            On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 23:20:08 -0000, Mike D wrote:
            >
            > ...
            > Does anyone know all these facts for the Baby Husky and the prop
            > speced for the Victor Slocum?

            --
            John <jkohnen@...>
            http://www.boat-links.com/
            Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow.
            <Mark Twain>
          • jkohnen@boat-links.com
            You can easily gear down the Hatz with a belt or a chain between the engine or gearbox and the prop shaft. There s been some discussion about using
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 12 2:18 PM
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              You can easily "gear down" the Hatz with a belt or a chain between the
              engine or gearbox and the prop shaft.

              There's been some discussion about using air-cooled engine in boats over on
              the Western Oregon Messabout group, where a friend of mine suggested using
              an outboard lower unit as a reverse gear for a vertical-shaft engine. Lying
              awake the other night I had a revelation -- why does the crankshaft of a
              horizontal shaft engine, like your Hatz, have to be parallel with the
              centerline? If you lay an outboard lower unit on its side, with the output
              shaft coupled to the prop shaft and the input shaft lying athwartships,
              mount the engine near it with it's shaft parallel with the lower unit's
              input shaft, then hook them together with appropriate belts, pulley, chains,
              sprockets or whatever, wouldn't it be a good, cheap way to get a reverse
              gear? Or did I just have too much pizza before going to bed... <g>

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/

              On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 16:03:22 -0000, dmede808 wrote:
              > ...
              > As you mentioned, RPMs are one of my big concerns. The small diesel I
              found delivers
              > 7.6hp at max 3600rpms and idles at 800rpms. Highest torque is 13.5lbs.ft
              at 2000rpms.
              > It delivers roughly 5hp at max torque 2000rpm. Probably higher RPM range
              than the
              > Palmer. The Palmer was rated at 6hp at 2500rpms.
              > ...

              --
              John <jkohnen@...>
              http://www.boat-links.com/
              Correlation does not imply causation; except, of course, to your cat.
              <Craig O'Donnell>
            • jkohnen@boat-links.com
              Take a cue from Robb and mount the engine on rubber. I think I d make a subframe that holds both the engine and gearbox, so you won t have any problems with
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 12 2:30 PM
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                Take a cue from Robb and mount the engine on rubber. I think I'd make a
                subframe that holds both the engine and gearbox, so you won't have any
                problems with belt or chain tension -- and possible transmitted vibration,
                then mount that subframe on rubber mounts. They sell expensive cushion
                couplings for marine engines, but you can probably find something at your
                local bearing store that will work fine between the gearbox and prop shaft
                with a low-horsepower engine. The inboard end of the prop shaft would be
                supported by a combination thrust/radial bearing, readily available at the
                bearing house.

                An air-cooled engine (especially a diesel!) is going to be noisier than the
                Baby Huskie too. You might want to think about a soundproofed engine box
                with air ducted to, and away, from the engine.

                On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:47:40 -0000, dmede808 (what's your name anyway?)
                wrote:
                > ...
                > I am also concerned that the higher
                > RPMs with the single cylinder will cause more vibration than the Palmer
                Baby Husky spec'd
                > for this boat.

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                http://www.boat-links.com/
                "Necessity is the mother of invention" is a silly proverb.
                "Necessity is the mother of futile dodges" is much nearer the truth.
                <Alfred North Whitehead>
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