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Belt drive

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  • oldbingey
    The propeller of my outlaw Rescue Minor is belt drive using one of those poly-vee belts like on modern cars. That allowed me to get the reduction needed (4
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 10, 2005
      The propeller of my outlaw Rescue Minor is belt drive using one of
      those poly-vee belts like on modern cars. That allowed me to get
      the reduction needed (4 to 3) at the shaft to turn Atkin's
      recommended propeller with the 3,600 rpm Kubota engine. The
      propeller shaft carries the thrust bearing. I described the complete
      machinery setup in a bunch of articles in "Messing about in Boats"
      but I'll briefly list the peculiarities: The engine is a 20 hp.,
      ($1,300 at the time) three cylinder tractor engine which was
      purchased without a bellhousing. The weight was 134 pounds in that
      configuration. The engine is cooled by a flat plate copper keel
      cooler flush with the bottom of Atkin's "box keel." The exhaust is
      raw water cooled by a "Shur Flo" diaphragm pump adapted to drive
      directly off the camshaft of the engine. The exhaust manifold is
      wrapped with copper tubing in which the exhaust water flows. To
      minimize the overhanging load on the crankshaft from the belt
      tension, there is a spring loaded tensioner between the output shaft
      of the engine and the propeller shaft. I had an air spring in there
      originally so that I could have neutral and reverse by pivoting the
      rear of the engine up and down with a foot operated lever to loosen
      the belt for neutral and then, by further depressing the pedal,
      cause a rubber tire attached to the belt drive sheave to contact a
      phenolic disc attached to the driven sheave. Initial depression of
      the pedal released the pressure on the air spring and releasing the
      pedal allowed the pressure to build back up and re-tension the
      belt. The air came from a small electric compressor which also
      blows the horn. I intended to rig an engine driven compressor and
      air start the engine so I could completely eliminate the electrical
      system but I never got around to it. The wiggling of the engine on
      its soft motor mounts eventually (after about 800 hours) wore enough
      slack in the air spring rig so that it started clattering so I
      removed it and made the spring belt tensioner I have on there now.
      I never used the reverse or neutral anyway. The boat will turn in
      its own length at idle. It has proven to be a quiet and trouble
      free rig.

      Robb White
    • jkohnen@boat-links.com
      Can you give us a little more info on the model # of the Shur Flo pump, it s availability and what you had to do to it? Sounds like it s a cheaper way to go
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 12, 2005
        Can you give us a little more info on the model # of the "Shur Flo" pump,
        it's availability and what you had to do to it? Sounds like it's a cheaper
        way to go than a Jabsco.

        Wrapping copper tubing around the exhaust is a good trick. Presumably after
        the exhaust pipe gets well below the exhaust port you inject the water into
        the pipe... My Valgerda has a copper exhaust pipe which is soldered up with
        a smaller diameter pipe inside a larger one, with the cooling water running
        between them for a considerable distance before the little pipe ends. Pretty
        neat setup, but not so easy to put together. Your trick with the tubing does
        about the same thing with a lot less work! :o) How close together are the
        turns of tubing?

        On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:46:13 -0000, Robb wrote:
        > ...
        > The exhaust is raw water cooled by a "Shur Flo" diaphragm pump adapted to
        > drive directly off the camshaft of the engine. The exhaust manifold is
        > wrapped with copper tubing in which the exhaust water flows.
        > ...

        --
        John <jkohnen@...>
        http://www.boat-links.com/
        He got hold of the red meat of the language and turned it into hamburgers.
        <Richard Gordon on Ernest Hemingway>
      • robrohdeszudy
        Hey Mr. White. Just found this post. Your tranmission is brilliant! A couple questions: 1. Where d you get the phenolic disk? What should I look for. 2. Air
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 23 9:21 AM
          Hey Mr. White. Just found this post. Your "tranmission" is brilliant!

          A couple questions:

          1. Where'd you get the phenolic disk? What should I look for.

          2. Air spring? Like in a pickup truck?

          3. What size and number of belts did you use?

          4. What thrust bearings did you use?

          I'm excited about homebrewed marine transmission!

          Many thanks,
          --Rob



          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "oldbingey" <bingey@r...> wrote:
          >
          > The propeller of my outlaw Rescue Minor is belt drive using one of
          > those poly-vee belts like on modern cars. That allowed me to get
          > the reduction needed (4 to 3) at the shaft to turn Atkin's
          > recommended propeller with the 3,600 rpm Kubota engine. The
          > propeller shaft carries the thrust bearing. I described the
          complete
          > machinery setup in a bunch of articles in "Messing about in Boats"
          > but I'll briefly list the peculiarities: The engine is a 20 hp.,
          > ($1,300 at the time) three cylinder tractor engine which was
          > purchased without a bellhousing. The weight was 134 pounds in
          that
          > configuration. The engine is cooled by a flat plate copper keel
          > cooler flush with the bottom of Atkin's "box keel." The exhaust
          is
          > raw water cooled by a "Shur Flo" diaphragm pump adapted to drive
          > directly off the camshaft of the engine. The exhaust manifold is
          > wrapped with copper tubing in which the exhaust water flows. To
          > minimize the overhanging load on the crankshaft from the belt
          > tension, there is a spring loaded tensioner between the output
          shaft
          > of the engine and the propeller shaft. I had an air spring in
          there
          > originally so that I could have neutral and reverse by pivoting the
          > rear of the engine up and down with a foot operated lever to loosen
          > the belt for neutral and then, by further depressing the pedal,
          > cause a rubber tire attached to the belt drive sheave to contact a
          > phenolic disc attached to the driven sheave. Initial depression of
          > the pedal released the pressure on the air spring and releasing the
          > pedal allowed the pressure to build back up and re-tension the
          > belt. The air came from a small electric compressor which also
          > blows the horn. I intended to rig an engine driven compressor and
          > air start the engine so I could completely eliminate the electrical
          > system but I never got around to it. The wiggling of the engine on
          > its soft motor mounts eventually (after about 800 hours) wore
          enough
          > slack in the air spring rig so that it started clattering so I
          > removed it and made the spring belt tensioner I have on there now.
          > I never used the reverse or neutral anyway. The boat will turn in
          > its own length at idle. It has proven to be a quiet and trouble
          > free rig.
          >
          > Robb White
        • oldbingey
          Dear Rob, I appreciate your compliments and know who you are so that makes them have some real significance. I ll answer those questions real quick because I
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 25 4:23 PM
            Dear Rob,


            I appreciate your compliments and know who you are so that makes
            them have some real significance.

            I'll answer those questions real quick because I am fixing to head
            back to the coast to batten down for this next damned hurricane.

            1. I turned the phenolic disc from a piece of 12"x12"x1" sheet from
            McMaster Carr. I don't remember what it cost but it wasn't too
            much and I was able to make some replacement sheaves out of the
            scraps. The rubber tire that contacted it to give reverse was the
            transmission drive wheel out of a Snapper riding lawn mower... $10.

            2. The air spring is a miniature of the air springs on a semi
            truck and is called an "air spring" in McMaster Carr.

            3. The single drive belt is a sixteen groove belt about as big
            around as my hat band (and some say I have a case of the big head).
            The brand name is "PolyVee."

            4. The thrust bearing is a regular farm duty flange block with a
            one inch ID ball bearing. Both it and the belt have run for more
            than 2,500 hours so far.

            It is a good transmission. I'll list some of the advantages:

            1. It is much lighter than even a Hurth.

            2. It runs almost without friction... no heat build up... no
            transmission oil cooler.

            3. The shaft runs in its own bearings attached in rigid alignment
            to the hull of the boat and does not wiggle with the engine so the
            stuffing box stays adjusted and does not leak at all. I assume the
            cutless bearings will last longer, too.

            4. It is cheap.

            5. It runs quiet (silent).

            6. It works on an engine without a heavy bellhousing... an
            automotive engine without any "marine" adaptations.

            I have figured out how to put the air spring back on there so that
            it won't rattle around but I have to take the boat out of service to
            do the modifications and I can't do that right now. It runs almost
            every day. I'll write up the details in MAIB to the point of
            exhaustion.

            I also like that Normand stern on Shoals Runner. I don't know which
            would be the better boat but I assume that there is a progression
            and Shoals Runner was designed later.

            I don't know anything about chine style boats so I can't comment
            about the difference in the chine angle of the two boats.

            My boat is way lighter than the Atkin boat.

            I am looking forward to reading about your project in "Duckworks."

            Good luck,

            Robb White.

            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "robrohdeszudy"
            <robrohdeszudy@y...> wrote:
            > Hey Mr. White. Just found this post. Your "tranmission" is
            brilliant!
            >
            > A couple questions:
            >
            > 1. Where'd you get the phenolic disk? What should I look for.
            >
            > 2. Air spring? Like in a pickup truck?
            >
            > 3. What size and number of belts did you use?
            >
            > 4. What thrust bearings did you use?
            >
            > I'm excited about homebrewed marine transmission!
            >
            > Many thanks,
            > --Rob
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "oldbingey" <bingey@r...> wrote:
            > >
            > > The propeller of my outlaw Rescue Minor is belt drive using one
            of
            > > those poly-vee belts like on modern cars. That allowed me to
            get
            > > the reduction needed (4 to 3) at the shaft to turn Atkin's
            > > recommended propeller with the 3,600 rpm Kubota engine. The
            > > propeller shaft carries the thrust bearing. I described the
            > complete
            > > machinery setup in a bunch of articles in "Messing about in
            Boats"
            > > but I'll briefly list the peculiarities: The engine is a 20
            hp.,
            > > ($1,300 at the time) three cylinder tractor engine which was
            > > purchased without a bellhousing. The weight was 134 pounds in
            > that
            > > configuration. The engine is cooled by a flat plate copper keel
            > > cooler flush with the bottom of Atkin's "box keel." The
            exhaust
            > is
            > > raw water cooled by a "Shur Flo" diaphragm pump adapted to drive
            > > directly off the camshaft of the engine. The exhaust manifold
            is
            > > wrapped with copper tubing in which the exhaust water flows. To
            > > minimize the overhanging load on the crankshaft from the belt
            > > tension, there is a spring loaded tensioner between the output
            > shaft
            > > of the engine and the propeller shaft. I had an air spring in
            > there
            > > originally so that I could have neutral and reverse by pivoting
            the
            > > rear of the engine up and down with a foot operated lever to
            loosen
            > > the belt for neutral and then, by further depressing the pedal,
            > > cause a rubber tire attached to the belt drive sheave to contact
            a
            > > phenolic disc attached to the driven sheave. Initial depression
            of
            > > the pedal released the pressure on the air spring and releasing
            the
            > > pedal allowed the pressure to build back up and re-tension the
            > > belt. The air came from a small electric compressor which also
            > > blows the horn. I intended to rig an engine driven compressor
            and
            > > air start the engine so I could completely eliminate the
            electrical
            > > system but I never got around to it. The wiggling of the engine
            on
            > > its soft motor mounts eventually (after about 800 hours) wore
            > enough
            > > slack in the air spring rig so that it started clattering so I
            > > removed it and made the spring belt tensioner I have on there
            now.
            > > I never used the reverse or neutral anyway. The boat will turn
            in
            > > its own length at idle. It has proven to be a quiet and trouble
            > > free rig.
            > >
            > > Robb White
          • robrohdeszudy
            Dammit, I responded wrong and my response post has the topic Re: Digest Number 295 . Sorry bout that. I was thinking - I wonder if your transmission would
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 26 9:43 AM
              Dammit, I responded wrong and my response post has the topic "Re:
              Digest Number 295". Sorry 'bout that.

              I was thinking - I wonder if your transmission would work with a
              lever instead of an air spring? I'm thinking of supporting the rear
              of the engine with something like a pivoting mini-gantry, and a 3'
              long lever to do the pivoting. The rear of the motor would be
              suspended from this thing by regular springs. Pushing the lever
              forward would lift the gantry and tension the belt for forward. It
              would need a notch hold that lever there. Pop it out of the notch and
              the motor can drop a little for neutral. I guess another detent
              there. Pop it out of that detent and the motor drops into reverse.

              Think that'd work, or would it take more force than a 3:1 - 5:1 lever?

              If not, I s'pose an air horn would be nice.

              Thanks,

              --Rob

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "oldbingey" <bingey@r...> wrote:
              > Dear Rob,
              >
              >
              > I appreciate your compliments and know who you are so that makes
              > them have some real significance.
              >
              > I'll answer those questions real quick because I am fixing to head
              > back to the coast to batten down for this next damned hurricane.
              >
              > 1. I turned the phenolic disc from a piece of 12"x12"x1" sheet
              from
              > McMaster Carr. I don't remember what it cost but it wasn't too
              > much and I was able to make some replacement sheaves out of the
              > scraps. The rubber tire that contacted it to give reverse was the
              > transmission drive wheel out of a Snapper riding lawn mower... $10.
              >
              > 2. The air spring is a miniature of the air springs on a semi
              > truck and is called an "air spring" in McMaster Carr.
              >
              > 3. The single drive belt is a sixteen groove belt about as big
              > around as my hat band (and some say I have a case of the big
              head).
              > The brand name is "PolyVee."
              >
              > 4. The thrust bearing is a regular farm duty flange block with a
              > one inch ID ball bearing. Both it and the belt have run for more
              > than 2,500 hours so far.
              >
              > It is a good transmission. I'll list some of the advantages:
              >
              > 1. It is much lighter than even a Hurth.
              >
              > 2. It runs almost without friction... no heat build up... no
              > transmission oil cooler.
              >
              > 3. The shaft runs in its own bearings attached in rigid alignment
              > to the hull of the boat and does not wiggle with the engine so the
              > stuffing box stays adjusted and does not leak at all. I assume the
              > cutless bearings will last longer, too.
              >
              > 4. It is cheap.
              >
              > 5. It runs quiet (silent).
              >
              > 6. It works on an engine without a heavy bellhousing... an
              > automotive engine without any "marine" adaptations.
              >
              > I have figured out how to put the air spring back on there so that
              > it won't rattle around but I have to take the boat out of service
              to
              > do the modifications and I can't do that right now. It runs almost
              > every day. I'll write up the details in MAIB to the point of
              > exhaustion.
              >
              > I also like that Normand stern on Shoals Runner. I don't know which
              > would be the better boat but I assume that there is a progression
              > and Shoals Runner was designed later.
              >
              > I don't know anything about chine style boats so I can't comment
              > about the difference in the chine angle of the two boats.
              >
              > My boat is way lighter than the Atkin boat.
              >
              > I am looking forward to reading about your project in "Duckworks."
              >
              > Good luck,
              >
              > Robb White.
              >
              > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "robrohdeszudy"
              > <robrohdeszudy@y...> wrote:
              > > Hey Mr. White. Just found this post. Your "tranmission" is
              > brilliant!
              > >
              > > A couple questions:
              > >
              > > 1. Where'd you get the phenolic disk? What should I look for.
              > >
              > > 2. Air spring? Like in a pickup truck?
              > >
              > > 3. What size and number of belts did you use?
              > >
              > > 4. What thrust bearings did you use?
              > >
              > > I'm excited about homebrewed marine transmission!
              > >
              > > Many thanks,
              > > --Rob
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "oldbingey" <bingey@r...>
              wrote:
              > > >
              > > > The propeller of my outlaw Rescue Minor is belt drive using one
              > of
              > > > those poly-vee belts like on modern cars. That allowed me to
              > get
              > > > the reduction needed (4 to 3) at the shaft to turn Atkin's
              > > > recommended propeller with the 3,600 rpm Kubota engine. The
              > > > propeller shaft carries the thrust bearing. I described the
              > > complete
              > > > machinery setup in a bunch of articles in "Messing about in
              > Boats"
              > > > but I'll briefly list the peculiarities: The engine is a 20
              > hp.,
              > > > ($1,300 at the time) three cylinder tractor engine which was
              > > > purchased without a bellhousing. The weight was 134 pounds in
              > > that
              > > > configuration. The engine is cooled by a flat plate copper
              keel
              > > > cooler flush with the bottom of Atkin's "box keel." The
              > exhaust
              > > is
              > > > raw water cooled by a "Shur Flo" diaphragm pump adapted to
              drive
              > > > directly off the camshaft of the engine. The exhaust manifold
              > is
              > > > wrapped with copper tubing in which the exhaust water flows.
              To
              > > > minimize the overhanging load on the crankshaft from the belt
              > > > tension, there is a spring loaded tensioner between the output
              > > shaft
              > > > of the engine and the propeller shaft. I had an air spring in
              > > there
              > > > originally so that I could have neutral and reverse by pivoting
              > the
              > > > rear of the engine up and down with a foot operated lever to
              > loosen
              > > > the belt for neutral and then, by further depressing the pedal,
              > > > cause a rubber tire attached to the belt drive sheave to
              contact
              > a
              > > > phenolic disc attached to the driven sheave. Initial
              depression
              > of
              > > > the pedal released the pressure on the air spring and releasing
              > the
              > > > pedal allowed the pressure to build back up and re-tension the
              > > > belt. The air came from a small electric compressor which
              also
              > > > blows the horn. I intended to rig an engine driven compressor
              > and
              > > > air start the engine so I could completely eliminate the
              > electrical
              > > > system but I never got around to it. The wiggling of the
              engine
              > on
              > > > its soft motor mounts eventually (after about 800 hours) wore
              > > enough
              > > > slack in the air spring rig so that it started clattering so I
              > > > removed it and made the spring belt tensioner I have on there
              > now.
              > > > I never used the reverse or neutral anyway. The boat will
              turn
              > in
              > > > its own length at idle. It has proven to be a quiet and
              trouble
              > > > free rig.
              > > >
              > > > Robb White
            • robrohdeszudy
              And where do you find an air powered starter?! Thankee, --Rob ... from ... head). ... to ... keel ... drive ... To ... contact ... depression ... also ...
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 26 9:43 AM
                And where do you find an air powered starter?!
                Thankee,
                --Rob

                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "oldbingey" <bingey@r...> wrote:
                > Dear Rob,
                >
                >
                > I appreciate your compliments and know who you are so that makes
                > them have some real significance.
                >
                > I'll answer those questions real quick because I am fixing to head
                > back to the coast to batten down for this next damned hurricane.
                >
                > 1. I turned the phenolic disc from a piece of 12"x12"x1" sheet
                from
                > McMaster Carr. I don't remember what it cost but it wasn't too
                > much and I was able to make some replacement sheaves out of the
                > scraps. The rubber tire that contacted it to give reverse was the
                > transmission drive wheel out of a Snapper riding lawn mower... $10.
                >
                > 2. The air spring is a miniature of the air springs on a semi
                > truck and is called an "air spring" in McMaster Carr.
                >
                > 3. The single drive belt is a sixteen groove belt about as big
                > around as my hat band (and some say I have a case of the big
                head).
                > The brand name is "PolyVee."
                >
                > 4. The thrust bearing is a regular farm duty flange block with a
                > one inch ID ball bearing. Both it and the belt have run for more
                > than 2,500 hours so far.
                >
                > It is a good transmission. I'll list some of the advantages:
                >
                > 1. It is much lighter than even a Hurth.
                >
                > 2. It runs almost without friction... no heat build up... no
                > transmission oil cooler.
                >
                > 3. The shaft runs in its own bearings attached in rigid alignment
                > to the hull of the boat and does not wiggle with the engine so the
                > stuffing box stays adjusted and does not leak at all. I assume the
                > cutless bearings will last longer, too.
                >
                > 4. It is cheap.
                >
                > 5. It runs quiet (silent).
                >
                > 6. It works on an engine without a heavy bellhousing... an
                > automotive engine without any "marine" adaptations.
                >
                > I have figured out how to put the air spring back on there so that
                > it won't rattle around but I have to take the boat out of service
                to
                > do the modifications and I can't do that right now. It runs almost
                > every day. I'll write up the details in MAIB to the point of
                > exhaustion.
                >
                > I also like that Normand stern on Shoals Runner. I don't know which
                > would be the better boat but I assume that there is a progression
                > and Shoals Runner was designed later.
                >
                > I don't know anything about chine style boats so I can't comment
                > about the difference in the chine angle of the two boats.
                >
                > My boat is way lighter than the Atkin boat.
                >
                > I am looking forward to reading about your project in "Duckworks."
                >
                > Good luck,
                >
                > Robb White.
                >
                > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "robrohdeszudy"
                > <robrohdeszudy@y...> wrote:
                > > Hey Mr. White. Just found this post. Your "tranmission" is
                > brilliant!
                > >
                > > A couple questions:
                > >
                > > 1. Where'd you get the phenolic disk? What should I look for.
                > >
                > > 2. Air spring? Like in a pickup truck?
                > >
                > > 3. What size and number of belts did you use?
                > >
                > > 4. What thrust bearings did you use?
                > >
                > > I'm excited about homebrewed marine transmission!
                > >
                > > Many thanks,
                > > --Rob
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "oldbingey" <bingey@r...>
                wrote:
                > > >
                > > > The propeller of my outlaw Rescue Minor is belt drive using one
                > of
                > > > those poly-vee belts like on modern cars. That allowed me to
                > get
                > > > the reduction needed (4 to 3) at the shaft to turn Atkin's
                > > > recommended propeller with the 3,600 rpm Kubota engine. The
                > > > propeller shaft carries the thrust bearing. I described the
                > > complete
                > > > machinery setup in a bunch of articles in "Messing about in
                > Boats"
                > > > but I'll briefly list the peculiarities: The engine is a 20
                > hp.,
                > > > ($1,300 at the time) three cylinder tractor engine which was
                > > > purchased without a bellhousing. The weight was 134 pounds in
                > > that
                > > > configuration. The engine is cooled by a flat plate copper
                keel
                > > > cooler flush with the bottom of Atkin's "box keel." The
                > exhaust
                > > is
                > > > raw water cooled by a "Shur Flo" diaphragm pump adapted to
                drive
                > > > directly off the camshaft of the engine. The exhaust manifold
                > is
                > > > wrapped with copper tubing in which the exhaust water flows.
                To
                > > > minimize the overhanging load on the crankshaft from the belt
                > > > tension, there is a spring loaded tensioner between the output
                > > shaft
                > > > of the engine and the propeller shaft. I had an air spring in
                > > there
                > > > originally so that I could have neutral and reverse by pivoting
                > the
                > > > rear of the engine up and down with a foot operated lever to
                > loosen
                > > > the belt for neutral and then, by further depressing the pedal,
                > > > cause a rubber tire attached to the belt drive sheave to
                contact
                > a
                > > > phenolic disc attached to the driven sheave. Initial
                depression
                > of
                > > > the pedal released the pressure on the air spring and releasing
                > the
                > > > pedal allowed the pressure to build back up and re-tension the
                > > > belt. The air came from a small electric compressor which
                also
                > > > blows the horn. I intended to rig an engine driven compressor
                > and
                > > > air start the engine so I could completely eliminate the
                > electrical
                > > > system but I never got around to it. The wiggling of the
                engine
                > on
                > > > its soft motor mounts eventually (after about 800 hours) wore
                > > enough
                > > > slack in the air spring rig so that it started clattering so I
                > > > removed it and made the spring belt tensioner I have on there
                > now.
                > > > I never used the reverse or neutral anyway. The boat will
                turn
                > in
                > > > its own length at idle. It has proven to be a quiet and
                trouble
                > > > free rig.
                > > >
                > > > Robb White
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