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Re: Small air cooled inboard motors

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  • Lewis E. Gordon
    Intersting line of engines. I notice that the 1B40 model is available with a counter rotating balancing option which might be useful. Also, the axial load on
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 8, 2005
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      Intersting line of engines. I notice that the 1B40 model is available
      with a counter rotating balancing option which might be useful. Also,
      the axial load on the PTO shaft was given as 1200 newtons. If I
      converted correctly, this is 269.7 pounds. I cannot imagine the prop
      and shaft loading coming close to this figure, but I don't know how to
      caculate the force either. And, who would want to drive the prop at
      1:1 with direct hookup?

      The weights are extremely low and the allowable tilt angle is
      generous. The agriculture units I have looked at here in Nicaragua are
      much heavier. What is the availability and cost of these engines
      stateside?

      Lewis
      Still searching for a suitable boat to build here for Lake Nicaragua!

      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "dmede808" <dmede808@y...> wrote:
      >
      > No problem Mike. I appreciate the help. I do know about the thrust
      bearing issue. There
      > is a load spec for the PTO bearing on the HATZ but I dont have any
      idea what the prop and
      > shaft thrust load will be, or how to calculate it.
      >
      > HATZ has several gearbox options for those motors and I may use one
      for gear reduction
      > and reverse gearing if possible. Hopefully that gearbox will be
      able to take the thrust load
      > but if not I'll have to rig an inline thrust bearing. Mcmaster Carr
      has pillow-block bearings
      > that may do the job.
    • dmede808
      Thanks for the shaft load conversion, thats good to know. I agree, 1:1 at those rpms is probably not ideal. They seem to be easy enough to get here in the
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 11, 2005
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        Thanks for the shaft load conversion, thats good to know. I agree, 1:1 at those rpms is
        probably not ideal. They seem to be easy enough to get here in the US. Quite a few
        dealers including online (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/
        ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=347&R=347)

        They range between $1500 - $1900 I think.

        The issue I am running into is getting info on suitable gearboxes. HATZ lists several
        gearboxes in thier "additional equipment" PDF online but the main US dealer doesn't seem
        to now anything about them. Without a bolt on option for neutral, reverse and gear
        reduction I may not be able to use these motors. I am also concerned that the higher
        RPMs with the single cylinder will cause more vibration than the Palmer Baby Husky spec'd
        for this boat.

        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon" <l_gordon_nica@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Intersting line of engines. I notice that the 1B40 model is available
        > with a counter rotating balancing option which might be useful. Also,
        > the axial load on the PTO shaft was given as 1200 newtons. If I
        > converted correctly, this is 269.7 pounds. I cannot imagine the prop
        > and shaft loading coming close to this figure, but I don't know how to
        > caculate the force either. And, who would want to drive the prop at
        > 1:1 with direct hookup?
        >
        > The weights are extremely low and the allowable tilt angle is
        > generous. The agriculture units I have looked at here in Nicaragua are
        > much heavier. What is the availability and cost of these engines
        > stateside?
        >
        > Lewis
        > Still searching for a suitable boat to build here for Lake Nicaragua!
        >
        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "dmede808" <dmede808@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > No problem Mike. I appreciate the help. I do know about the thrust
        > bearing issue. There
        > > is a load spec for the PTO bearing on the HATZ but I dont have any
        > idea what the prop and
        > > shaft thrust load will be, or how to calculate it.
        > >
        > > HATZ has several gearbox options for those motors and I may use one
        > for gear reduction
        > > and reverse gearing if possible. Hopefully that gearbox will be
        > able to take the thrust load
        > > but if not I'll have to rig an inline thrust bearing. Mcmaster Carr
        > has pillow-block bearings
        > > that may do the job.
      • Lewis E. Gordon
        Here is the link for ZF/Hurth marine transmission web site. Select transmissions/engine matching program/select brands for a list of supported manufactures. It
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 11, 2005
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          Here is the link for ZF/Hurth marine transmission web site. Select
          transmissions/engine matching program/select brands for a list of
          supported manufactures. It is interesting that Hatz is not listed for
          any model. The prices shown on Northern Tool seem a little high. For
          that money you can get a Kubota like Mr. White has on his Rescue
          Minor. That is one good engine and 800 hours already? Wow!

          If you want to use a smaller industrial engine like the HATZ, you will
          have to do some improvising with a belt drive like Mr. White did. I'm
          sorry to hear that he no longer has a reverse gear. He's right that
          it's not used much, but still for the peace of mind.... (Who am I to
          talk? I'm missing a spring on my 30 HP Tohatsu and I don't have
          reverse now either.)

          Good luck!

          Lewis


          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "dmede808" <dmede808@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks for the shaft load conversion, thats good to know. I agree,
          1:1 at those rpms is
          > probably not ideal. They seem to be easy enough to get here in the
          US. Quite a few
          > dealers including online
          (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/
          > ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=347&R=347)
          >
          > They range between $1500 - $1900 I think.
          >
          > The issue I am running into is getting info on suitable gearboxes.
          HATZ lists several
          > gearboxes in thier "additional equipment" PDF online but the main US
          dealer doesn't seem
          > to now anything about them. Without a bolt on option for neutral,
          reverse and gear
          > reduction I may not be able to use these motors. I am also
          concerned that the higher
          > RPMs with the single cylinder will cause more vibration than the
          Palmer Baby Husky spec'd
          > for this boat.
          >
        • Lewis E. Gordon
          I m sorry! I forget the link: http://zf-marine.com/ZFR/index.cfm
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 11, 2005
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            I'm sorry! I forget the link:

            http://zf-marine.com/ZFR/index.cfm


            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon"
            <l_gordon_nica@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Here is the link for ZF/Hurth marine transmission web site. Select
            > transmissions/engine matching program/select brands for a list of
            > supported manufactures. It is interesting that Hatz is not listed for
            > any model. The prices shown on Northern Tool seem a little high. For
            > that money you can get a Kubota like Mr. White has on his Rescue
            > Minor. That is one good engine and 800 hours already? Wow!
            >
            > If you want to use a smaller industrial engine like the HATZ, you will
            > have to do some improvising with a belt drive like Mr. White did. I'm
            > sorry to hear that he no longer has a reverse gear. He's right that
            > it's not used much, but still for the peace of mind.... (Who am I to
            > talk? I'm missing a spring on my 30 HP Tohatsu and I don't have
            > reverse now either.)
            >
            > Good luck!
            >
            > Lewis
            >
            >
            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "dmede808" <dmede808@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Thanks for the shaft load conversion, thats good to know. I agree,
            > 1:1 at those rpms is
            > > probably not ideal. They seem to be easy enough to get here in the
            > US. Quite a few
            > > dealers including online
            > (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/
            > > ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=347&R=347)
            > >
            > > They range between $1500 - $1900 I think.
            > >
            > > The issue I am running into is getting info on suitable gearboxes.
            > HATZ lists several
            > > gearboxes in thier "additional equipment" PDF online but the main US
            > dealer doesn't seem
            > > to now anything about them. Without a bolt on option for neutral,
            > reverse and gear
            > > reduction I may not be able to use these motors. I am also
            > concerned that the higher
            > > RPMs with the single cylinder will cause more vibration than the
            > Palmer Baby Husky spec'd
            > > for this boat.
            > >
          • jkohnen@boat-links.com
            The Atkins specified a two-bladed, Type E Columbian, 10 inches in diameter b 6 inches in pitch. The speed of the skiff should be a good 8 m.p.h. The Baby
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 12, 2005
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              The Atkins specified a "two-bladed, Type E Columbian, 10 inches in diameter
              b 6 inches in pitch. The speed of the skiff should be a good 8 m.p.h." The
              Baby Huskie (BH) had a bore of 3 1/16" and a stroke of 3 1/2" for a
              displacement of 25 cu. in.

              On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 23:20:08 -0000, Mike D wrote:
              >
              > ...
              > Does anyone know all these facts for the Baby Husky and the prop
              > speced for the Victor Slocum?

              --
              John <jkohnen@...>
              http://www.boat-links.com/
              Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow.
              <Mark Twain>
            • jkohnen@boat-links.com
              You can easily gear down the Hatz with a belt or a chain between the engine or gearbox and the prop shaft. There s been some discussion about using
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 12, 2005
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                You can easily "gear down" the Hatz with a belt or a chain between the
                engine or gearbox and the prop shaft.

                There's been some discussion about using air-cooled engine in boats over on
                the Western Oregon Messabout group, where a friend of mine suggested using
                an outboard lower unit as a reverse gear for a vertical-shaft engine. Lying
                awake the other night I had a revelation -- why does the crankshaft of a
                horizontal shaft engine, like your Hatz, have to be parallel with the
                centerline? If you lay an outboard lower unit on its side, with the output
                shaft coupled to the prop shaft and the input shaft lying athwartships,
                mount the engine near it with it's shaft parallel with the lower unit's
                input shaft, then hook them together with appropriate belts, pulley, chains,
                sprockets or whatever, wouldn't it be a good, cheap way to get a reverse
                gear? Or did I just have too much pizza before going to bed... <g>

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/

                On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 16:03:22 -0000, dmede808 wrote:
                > ...
                > As you mentioned, RPMs are one of my big concerns. The small diesel I
                found delivers
                > 7.6hp at max 3600rpms and idles at 800rpms. Highest torque is 13.5lbs.ft
                at 2000rpms.
                > It delivers roughly 5hp at max torque 2000rpm. Probably higher RPM range
                than the
                > Palmer. The Palmer was rated at 6hp at 2500rpms.
                > ...

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                http://www.boat-links.com/
                Correlation does not imply causation; except, of course, to your cat.
                <Craig O'Donnell>
              • jkohnen@boat-links.com
                Take a cue from Robb and mount the engine on rubber. I think I d make a subframe that holds both the engine and gearbox, so you won t have any problems with
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 12, 2005
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                  Take a cue from Robb and mount the engine on rubber. I think I'd make a
                  subframe that holds both the engine and gearbox, so you won't have any
                  problems with belt or chain tension -- and possible transmitted vibration,
                  then mount that subframe on rubber mounts. They sell expensive cushion
                  couplings for marine engines, but you can probably find something at your
                  local bearing store that will work fine between the gearbox and prop shaft
                  with a low-horsepower engine. The inboard end of the prop shaft would be
                  supported by a combination thrust/radial bearing, readily available at the
                  bearing house.

                  An air-cooled engine (especially a diesel!) is going to be noisier than the
                  Baby Huskie too. You might want to think about a soundproofed engine box
                  with air ducted to, and away, from the engine.

                  On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:47:40 -0000, dmede808 (what's your name anyway?)
                  wrote:
                  > ...
                  > I am also concerned that the higher
                  > RPMs with the single cylinder will cause more vibration than the Palmer
                  Baby Husky spec'd
                  > for this boat.

                  --
                  John <jkohnen@...>
                  http://www.boat-links.com/
                  "Necessity is the mother of invention" is a silly proverb.
                  "Necessity is the mother of futile dodges" is much nearer the truth.
                  <Alfred North Whitehead>
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