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I'm looking for any advice about the Russell R. design

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  • Mike Dolph
    I m considering the Russell R. as a design I can build for myself in the Pantanal region of Brasil. I have tried to walk myself through it and even though I
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 2, 2005
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      I'm considering the Russell R. as a design I can build for myself in
      the Pantanal region of Brasil. I have tried to walk myself through
      it and even though I have never built a boat I think I can do this
      one. I would make it crossplanked on the bottom and probably strip
      plank the sides instead of lapstrake (which I'm pretty sure would
      defeat me).

      There are marine suppliers available in both the locations I am
      considering so the simple things I would need for this boat should be
      available. The object is to have a last "great adventure" before I
      have to quit and hopefully lose all the useless weight I'm carrying
      around so maybe I won't have to quit so soon.

      I would have preferred the Rosdave design but if Russel R. works as
      described it would be the better boat for the job and much more
      likely to be a DIY success for me. I would use a 15 HP outboard
      motor, probably a Yamaha. If the high thrust version with larger
      prop is available, would it be more desirable?

      The available woods will probably be much denser and heavier than the
      white cedar specified so I was thinking of reducing the plank
      scantlings a bit. I also want a self draining shelf or motorwell
      surrounding the open well the outboard drops into. This should
      reinforce the open well and give a place to flop fish for cleaning,
      etc. and supply a dry place for a battery if I have electric
      charge/start. The lids over the outboard will disappear.

      I plan to build a cabin like one used by the Campjon by Jim Micalak
      which will also add weight.

      Everything turns on the postulated speed of 17 miles an hour. I'm
      hoping a 15 HP outboard will still deliver that even if the boat is
      heavier.

      What do you guys think?

      John Dolph
    • Lewis E. Gordon
      John, I have owned, modified and rebuilt an 18 foot shallow V plywood skiff powered by a 40 HP 2 stroke in a well. The top speed was about 25-26 mph in a light
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 3, 2005
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        John,

        I have owned, modified and rebuilt an 18 foot shallow V plywood skiff
        powered by a 40 HP 2 stroke in a well. The top speed was about 25-26
        mph in a light 4 to 6 inch chop. The boat was surprisingly faster in
        this light chop than still water. A good economical cruising speed was
        about 21 mph and I could run a weekend on 7 gallons of gas.

        It was a fun boat, but I will never have another motor in a well
        unless it is small enough to lift out by myself. I could not change
        the tilt angle without pulling the motor. As built, the well IMO was
        too far forward and the boat lost too much load bearing aft. Also, the
        "shallow water" feature would not work because the prop would hit the
        sides of the well. Moving the well aft helped these problems some, but
        then the motor could not tilt up enough to lock in position and I
        didn't want to enlarge the well opening in the transom. I ended up
        giving the boat away when we moved to Nicaragua.

        With all that said, Russel R. looks like a good first time choice. Why
        not carvel plank the sides instead of strip planking? And some of John
        Gardners books take the mystic out of lapstrake planking. IMO, 17 mph
        sounds like a bit too much to expect on a 20.5 foot waterline from 12
        HP unless the construction is super light. Maybe that is why clinker
        planking is specified. The 3/4 inch cross planked ceder bottom is also
        a bit light for a nearly 22 foot boat.

        Good luck,
        Lewis



        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dolph" <jdolph@s...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > I'm considering the Russell R. as a design I can build for myself in
        > the Pantanal region of Brasil. I have tried to walk myself through
        > it and even though I have never built a boat I think I can do this
        > one. I would make it crossplanked on the bottom and probably strip
        > plank the sides instead of lapstrake (which I'm pretty sure would
        > defeat me).
        >
        > There are marine suppliers available in both the locations I am
        > considering so the simple things I would need for this boat should be
        > available. The object is to have a last "great adventure" before I
        > have to quit and hopefully lose all the useless weight I'm carrying
        > around so maybe I won't have to quit so soon.
        >
        > I would have preferred the Rosdave design but if Russel R. works as
        > described it would be the better boat for the job and much more
        > likely to be a DIY success for me. I would use a 15 HP outboard
        > motor, probably a Yamaha. If the high thrust version with larger
        > prop is available, would it be more desirable?
        >
        > The available woods will probably be much denser and heavier than the
        > white cedar specified so I was thinking of reducing the plank
        > scantlings a bit. I also want a self draining shelf or motorwell
        > surrounding the open well the outboard drops into. This should
        > reinforce the open well and give a place to flop fish for cleaning,
        > etc. and supply a dry place for a battery if I have electric
        > charge/start. The lids over the outboard will disappear.
        >
        > I plan to build a cabin like one used by the Campjon by Jim Micalak
        > which will also add weight.
        >
        > Everything turns on the postulated speed of 17 miles an hour. I'm
        > hoping a 15 HP outboard will still deliver that even if the boat is
        > heavier.
        >
        > What do you guys think?
        >
        > John Dolph
      • Mike Dolph
        Thanks for you answer Lewis. I think the motor comes with good handles and I don t think I ll have to lift it out much. The fact is 15 miles per with 15 HP
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 3, 2005
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          Thanks for you answer Lewis. I think the motor comes with good
          handles and I don't think I'll have to lift it out much. The fact is
          15 miles per with 15 HP would be nice enough I guess; probably twice
          what I could get from Rosdave and costing less all around I think.
          I'd have to go to a twenty-two HP Yanmar Brazilian made Yanmar to get
          electrics but I think they may be avilable on the 15 HP outboard.

          I might need to change the well to reflect the outboards available
          these days. I would have 3 more HP than specified so I'm hoping the
          weight will be over come. I would try to carvel plank I guess but I
          won't know till I try to wrap a plank around it and see. It might
          make it easier to "compensate" a little hikers compass if it can be
          done at all. I doubt I'll be able to steam bend frames so I think
          Clinker is out though I havn't seen the plans yet. The wood down
          there is amazingly heavy and strong. I bought a mess of less than
          3/4" flooring once to make a strong shipping box, the wood was called
          Sucupira and was so hard I had to drill holes to nail and it dulled
          the twist bit something terrible. With wood like that I see no need
          to import plywood execpt maybe for cabin sides and top which will be
          flat. Finding something lighter but good for a boat may be my
          biggest challenge. If I can swing it I'll fiberglass the bottom and
          sides.

          John Dolph


          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis E. Gordon"
          <l_gordon_nica@y...> wrote:
          >
          > John,
          >
          > I have owned, modified and rebuilt an 18 foot shallow V plywood
          skiff
          > powered by a 40 HP 2 stroke in a well. The top speed was about 25-26
          > mph in a light 4 to 6 inch chop. The boat was surprisingly faster in
          > this light chop than still water. A good economical cruising speed
          was
          > about 21 mph and I could run a weekend on 7 gallons of gas.
          >
          > It was a fun boat, but I will never have another motor in a well
          > unless it is small enough to lift out by myself. I could not change
          > the tilt angle without pulling the motor. As built, the well IMO was
          > too far forward and the boat lost too much load bearing aft. Also,
          the
          > "shallow water" feature would not work because the prop would hit
          the
          > sides of the well. Moving the well aft helped these problems some,
          but
          > then the motor could not tilt up enough to lock in position and I
          > didn't want to enlarge the well opening in the transom. I ended up
          > giving the boat away when we moved to Nicaragua.
          >
          > With all that said, Russel R. looks like a good first time choice.
          Why
          > not carvel plank the sides instead of strip planking? And some of
          John
          > Gardners books take the mystic out of lapstrake planking. IMO, 17
          mph
          > sounds like a bit too much to expect on a 20.5 foot waterline from
          12
          > HP unless the construction is super light. Maybe that is why clinker
          > planking is specified. The 3/4 inch cross planked ceder bottom is
          also
          > a bit light for a nearly 22 foot boat.
          >
          > Good luck,
          > Lewis
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dolph" <jdolph@s...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > I'm considering the Russell R. as a design I can build for myself
          in
          > > the Pantanal region of Brasil. I have tried to walk myself
          through
          > > it and even though I have never built a boat I think I can do
          this
          > > one. I would make it crossplanked on the bottom and probably
          strip
          > > plank the sides instead of lapstrake (which I'm pretty sure would
          > > defeat me).
          > >
          > > There are marine suppliers available in both the locations I am
          > > considering so the simple things I would need for this boat
          should be
          > > available. The object is to have a last "great adventure" before
          I
          > > have to quit and hopefully lose all the useless weight I'm
          carrying
          > > around so maybe I won't have to quit so soon.
          > >
          > > I would have preferred the Rosdave design but if Russel R. works
          as
          > > described it would be the better boat for the job and much more
          > > likely to be a DIY success for me. I would use a 15 HP outboard
          > > motor, probably a Yamaha. If the high thrust version with larger
          > > prop is available, would it be more desirable?
          > >
          > > The available woods will probably be much denser and heavier than
          the
          > > white cedar specified so I was thinking of reducing the plank
          > > scantlings a bit. I also want a self draining shelf or motorwell
          > > surrounding the open well the outboard drops into. This should
          > > reinforce the open well and give a place to flop fish for
          cleaning,
          > > etc. and supply a dry place for a battery if I have electric
          > > charge/start. The lids over the outboard will disappear.
          > >
          > > I plan to build a cabin like one used by the Campjon by Jim
          Micalak
          > > which will also add weight.
          > >
          > > Everything turns on the postulated speed of 17 miles an hour.
          I'm
          > > hoping a 15 HP outboard will still deliver that even if the boat
          is
          > > heavier.
          > >
          > > What do you guys think?
          > >
          > > John Dolph
        • Lewis E. Gordon
          John, I will email you offline with some questions about wood; but I wanted to caution about fiberglassing the bottom. According to John Gardner, it is
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 4, 2005
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            John,

            I will email you offline with some questions about wood; but I wanted
            to caution about fiberglassing the bottom. According to John Gardner,
            it is counterproductive to fiberglass a cross planked bottom. I will
            have to reference the article to quote him exactly. Also, fiberglass
            adds an awful lot of weight which you don't need. The sides of Russell
            R. are almost straight, so I don't think any steam bending will be
            necessary for the timbers.

            Lewis

            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dolph" <jdolph@s...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks for you answer Lewis. I think the motor comes with good
            > handles and I don't think I'll have to lift it out much. The fact is
            > 15 miles per with 15 HP would be nice enough I guess; probably twice
            > what I could get from Rosdave and costing less all around I think.
            > I'd have to go to a twenty-two HP Yanmar Brazilian made Yanmar to get
            > electrics but I think they may be avilable on the 15 HP outboard.
            >
            > I might need to change the well to reflect the outboards available
            > these days. I would have 3 more HP than specified so I'm hoping the
            > weight will be over come. I would try to carvel plank I guess but I
            > won't know till I try to wrap a plank around it and see. It might
            > make it easier to "compensate" a little hikers compass if it can be
            > done at all. I doubt I'll be able to steam bend frames so I think
            > Clinker is out though I havn't seen the plans yet. The wood down
            > there is amazingly heavy and strong. I bought a mess of less than
            > 3/4" flooring once to make a strong shipping box, the wood was called
            > Sucupira and was so hard I had to drill holes to nail and it dulled
            > the twist bit something terrible. With wood like that I see no need
            > to import plywood execpt maybe for cabin sides and top which will be
            > flat. Finding something lighter but good for a boat may be my
            > biggest challenge. If I can swing it I'll fiberglass the bottom and
            > sides.
            >
            > John Dolph
            >
            >
          • jkohnen@boat-links.com
            There have been lots of successful designs with motor wells, the Bartender of the Northwest coast and the Simmons Sea Skiff Back East come to mind:
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 16, 2005
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              There have been lots of successful designs with motor wells, the Bartender
              of the Northwest coast and the Simmons Sea Skiff Back East come to mind:

              http://www.bartenderboats.com/

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bartenderboat/

              http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/davecarnell/#Simmons

              http://www.capefearmuseum.com/simmons_skiffs.htm

              And a couple of friends of mine have had real good luck with the outboard
              wells they've put into their flat-bottom skiffs. There's nothing wrong with
              wells, they just have to be done right. Ideally, you should have the motor
              on hand before you start building the well, which should be made to fit. You
              want the cutout in the bottom to be big enough so the motor can kick up when
              turned, but without much to spare. Likewise with the cutout in the transom
              -- high enough to fully tilt the motor, but not much higher than that.

              On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 05:50:52 -0000, Lewis wrote:
              > ...
              > I have owned, modified and rebuilt an 18 foot shallow V plywood skiff
              > powered by a 40 HP 2 stroke in a well.
              > ...
              > It was a fun boat, but I will never have another motor in a well
              > unless it is small enough to lift out by myself. I could not change
              > the tilt angle without pulling the motor. As built, the well IMO was
              > too far forward and the boat lost too much load bearing aft. Also, the
              > "shallow water" feature would not work because the prop would hit the
              > sides of the well. Moving the well aft helped these problems some, but
              > then the motor could not tilt up enough to lock in position and I
              > didn't want to enlarge the well opening in the transom.
              > ...

              --
              John <jkohnen@...>
              http://www.boat-links.com/
              Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow.
              <Mark Twain>
            • jkohnen@boat-links.com
              Another of my favorites! To get the designed top speed, Russel R. has to be built light. If you use heavier, stronger wood than the oak and cedar specified you
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 16, 2005
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                Another of my favorites! To get the designed top speed, Russel R. has to be
                built light. If you use heavier, stronger wood than the oak and cedar
                specified you can trim the scantlings a bit. The best thing to do would be
                to ask the local boatbuilders what they use. You'll have to take extra pains
                to make any cabin, or other additions, light. Strip-planking a flat-sided
                skiff seems pretty silly, and tedious, and carvel planking would be too
                heavy. Lapstrake isn't reaaly all that difficult, but if you don't want to
                try it batten-seam construction would be almost as light, and probably about
                the same amount of work. Except for some of the interior details and
                decking, Russell R. is a simple flat-bottom skiff, with a cross-planked
                bottom and no bottom frames. You can do it! <g>

                For a light, fast boat like Russell R. you don't want the high thrust
                version of the Yamaha. There's already a watertight slop well around the
                motor well in the plans. The covered motor well is one of the things I like
                most about Russell R. I don't particularly like listening to outboards. :ob

                On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 07:15:22 -0000, John D wrote:
                >
                > I'm considering the Russell R. as a design I can build for myself in
                > the Pantanal region of Brasil. I have tried to walk myself through
                > it and even though I have never built a boat I think I can do this
                > one. I would make it crossplanked on the bottom and probably strip
                > plank the sides instead of lapstrake (which I'm pretty sure would
                > defeat me).
                > ...
                > I would have preferred the Rosdave design but if Russel R. works as
                > described it would be the better boat for the job and much more
                > likely to be a DIY success for me. I would use a 15 HP outboard
                > motor, probably a Yamaha. If the high thrust version with larger
                > prop is available, would it be more desirable?
                >
                > The available woods will probably be much denser and heavier than the
                > white cedar specified so I was thinking of reducing the plank
                > scantlings a bit. I also want a self draining shelf or motorwell
                > surrounding the open well the outboard drops into. This should
                > reinforce the open well and give a place to flop fish for cleaning,
                > etc. and supply a dry place for a battery if I have electric
                > charge/start. The lids over the outboard will disappear.
                >
                > I plan to build a cabin like one used by the Campjon by Jim Micalak
                > which will also add weight.
                >
                > Everything turns on the postulated speed of 17 miles an hour. I'm
                > hoping a 15 HP outboard will still deliver that even if the boat is
                > heavier.
                > ...

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                http://www.boat-links.com/
                Man does not live by words alone, despite the fact that he
                sometimes has to eat them. <Adlai Stevenson>
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