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Re: [AtkinBoats] Steel Grand Banks Dory?

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  • jkohnen@boat-links.com
    Hardtack s bottom, sides and deck are 13 gauge iron (.10 thick). Hardtack s weight isn t given in the how-to-build article. You can do some reverse
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 6, 2004
      Hardtack's bottom, sides and deck are 13 gauge iron (.10" thick).

      Hardtack's weight isn't given in the how-to-build article. You can do some
      reverse engineering to figure out the approximate weight. You can make an
      educated guess about the designed displacement using the methods mentioned
      in message #288 in the archives.

      If you can wait a few days, I'll have the 22' metal outboard day cruiser
      Jogalong in the online catalog. That might be another that you'd like.

      It wouldn't be hard to convert a Banks dory to steel, but I don't think
      either Atkin ever did. If you took the plans for a wooden dory to a good
      steel tank fabricator I'll bet they could figure out how to make it in steel
      for you. I think aluminum would be better, you could use thicker plating,
      and you could cut out the parts with woodworking tools, then hire a welder
      to stick it together for you.

      On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 14:06:40 -0000, Denis wrote:
      >
      > I was admiring the metal utility boat Hardtack. Are there any plans
      > available for a grand banks dory about the same size, also in steel?
      >
      > Also, before I order any plans, it would be nice to know what the
      > hull thickness and total weight of the boat is. Would anyone know
      > what this is for Hardtack?

      --
      John <jkohnen@...>
      http://www.boat-links.com/
      The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene of
      older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the blood.
      <Logan Pearsall Smith>
    • denisnh
      Thanks John. Looking forward to seeing Jogalong in the catalog. I know Benford has plans for a 36 steel double-ended dory, so it has been done. In my
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 10, 2004
        Thanks John. Looking forward to seeing Jogalong in the catalog. I
        know Benford has plans for a 36' steel double-ended dory, so it has
        been done. In my opinion, the grand banks dory is a good candidate
        for steel, as it becomes less tender and more stable as it gets
        heavier.

        But that's a future project. :) I've sent away for two study plans
        for the v-bottom seabright skiffs. I'm fascinated with these boats
        and how the Atkin team was able to enhance the design and improve
        performance. I'm also a bit puzzled on how they estimated hull
        speed down to a half mile an hour. All I can figure is that they
        had a good feel for length to beam ratio, keel depth and width,
        stern size and the V deadrise and were able to work all these
        factors into an accurate hull speed. The speed calculations almost
        always work out to be much faster than full displacement speed so I
        assume there's SOME planing going on.

        Anyway, I got off the subject. :) Looking forward to getting my
        study plans and researching this even further before deciding on
        which seabright I'll be building. If I can get a seabright to go
        12mph or ~10 knots on 8 or 10 horsepower, that would be wonderful!

        Regards,
        Denis


        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
        > Hardtack's bottom, sides and deck are 13 gauge iron (.10" thick).
        >
        > Hardtack's weight isn't given in the how-to-build article. You can
        do some
        > reverse engineering to figure out the approximate weight. You can
        make an
        > educated guess about the designed displacement using the methods
        mentioned
        > in message #288 in the archives.
        >
        > If you can wait a few days, I'll have the 22' metal outboard day
        cruiser
        > Jogalong in the online catalog. That might be another that you'd
        like.
        >
        > It wouldn't be hard to convert a Banks dory to steel, but I don't
        think
        > either Atkin ever did. If you took the plans for a wooden dory to
        a good
        > steel tank fabricator I'll bet they could figure out how to make
        it in steel
        > for you. I think aluminum would be better, you could use thicker
        plating,
        > and you could cut out the parts with woodworking tools, then hire
        a welder
        > to stick it together for you.
        >
        > On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 14:06:40 -0000, Denis wrote:
        > >
        > > I was admiring the metal utility boat Hardtack. Are there any
        plans
        > > available for a grand banks dory about the same size, also in
        steel?
        > >
        > > Also, before I order any plans, it would be nice to know what the
        > > hull thickness and total weight of the boat is. Would anyone
        know
        > > what this is for Hardtack?
        >
        > --
        > John <jkohnen@b...>
        > http://www.boat-links.com/
        > The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the
        hygiene of
        > older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the
        blood.
        > <Logan Pearsall Smith>
      • jkohnen@boat-links.com
        Jog-Along is in the online catalog now: http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Oar/JogAlong.html I like it. It s a good-looking and seaworthy-looking boat, and I
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 12, 2004
          Jog-Along is in the online catalog now:

          http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Oar/JogAlong.html

          I like it. It's a good-looking and seaworthy-looking boat, and I like
          outboards in covered wells (for quiet!). I think it's very sensible to _not_
          try to cram berths into the cuddy of such a small boat. Too bad it's
          designed for steel. ;o) That's not my favorite material.

          The Atkins had a very good feel for what different hull shapes will do,
          honed by years and years worth of experience. But that just gave them the
          ability to refine the speed guesses produced by some standard boat design
          formulas using weight, horsepower and other measurements. The half-a-mile-
          an-hour accuracy is probably reaching a bit though. <g> When building an
          Atkin design (or any boat), if you want to get the designed speed don't make
          the boat too heavy! Most of the Atkin motorboats are designed to operate in
          the "semi-displacement" or "semi-planing" speed range. Some boats can be
          real pigs when running at those speeds, using lots of fuel and throwing big
          wakes, but the Atkins knew how to get a lot out of a horsepower, and enjoyed
          doing so even after horsepower became cheap. Most of the Atkin motorboat
          designs are intended to _efficiently_ reach a certain speed, and while
          they'll probably run efficiently enough with less power, trying to go faster
          by using more horsepower than designed won't work well...

          Which V-bottom Seabright skiffs grabbed your interest? A fellow here in
          Oregon is contemplating putting a 25 hp. steam engine into an Atkin
          Seabright, or V-bottom Seabright, skiff and outrunning all the displacement
          steam launches in the Northwest! <g>

          On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:55:37 -0000, Denis wrote:
          >
          >
          > Thanks John. Looking forward to seeing Jogalong in the catalog. I
          > know Benford has plans for a 36' steel double-ended dory, so it has
          > been done. In my opinion, the grand banks dory is a good candidate
          > for steel, as it becomes less tender and more stable as it gets
          > heavier.
          >
          > But that's a future project. :) I've sent away for two study plans
          > for the v-bottom seabright skiffs. I'm fascinated with these boats
          > and how the Atkin team was able to enhance the design and improve
          > performance. I'm also a bit puzzled on how they estimated hull
          > speed down to a half mile an hour. All I can figure is that they
          > had a good feel for length to beam ratio, keel depth and width,
          > stern size and the V deadrise and were able to work all these
          > factors into an accurate hull speed. The speed calculations almost
          > always work out to be much faster than full displacement speed so I
          > assume there's SOME planing going on.
          > ...

          --
          John <jkohnen@...>
          http://www.boat-links.com/
          Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless
          they meet two conditions:
          1. He is a Greek
          2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>
        • Lewis E. Gordon
          John, Yes, but TWO of the stinky beasts to stuff into wells? It is an interesting design. Nominations fot the steam powered seabright skiff: for the
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 12, 2004
            John,

            Yes, but TWO of the stinky beasts to stuff into wells? It is an
            interesting design.

            Nominations fot the steam powered seabright skiff: for the
            tunnel-stern varity I suggest Shoals Runner for the classic look, size
            and power requirements if it could be fitted with a large enough prop
            for a steam engine. And Ghost at 28 feet would be nice for a
            non-tunnel skiff, but full plans are not available. The size and power
            requirements would seem to suit steam power.

            Just my two cents worth,
            Lewis



            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
            > Jog-Along is in the online catalog now:
            >
            > http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Oar/JogAlong.html
            >
            > I like it. It's a good-looking and seaworthy-looking boat, and I like
            > outboards in covered wells (for quiet!). I think it's very sensible
            to _not_
            > try to cram berths into the cuddy of such a small boat. Too bad it's
            > designed for steel. ;o) That's not my favorite material.
            >
            > The Atkins had a very good feel for what different hull shapes will do,
            > honed by years and years worth of experience. But that just gave
            them the
            > ability to refine the speed guesses produced by some standard boat
            design
            > formulas using weight, horsepower and other measurements. The
            half-a-mile-
            > an-hour accuracy is probably reaching a bit though. <g> When building an
            > Atkin design (or any boat), if you want to get the designed speed
            don't make
            > the boat too heavy! Most of the Atkin motorboats are designed to
            operate in
            > the "semi-displacement" or "semi-planing" speed range. Some boats can be
            > real pigs when running at those speeds, using lots of fuel and
            throwing big
            > wakes, but the Atkins knew how to get a lot out of a horsepower, and
            enjoyed
            > doing so even after horsepower became cheap. Most of the Atkin motorboat
            > designs are intended to _efficiently_ reach a certain speed, and while
            > they'll probably run efficiently enough with less power, trying to
            go faster
            > by using more horsepower than designed won't work well...
            >
            > Which V-bottom Seabright skiffs grabbed your interest? A fellow here in
            > Oregon is contemplating putting a 25 hp. steam engine into an Atkin
            > Seabright, or V-bottom Seabright, skiff and outrunning all the
            displacement
            > steam launches in the Northwest! <g>
            >
            >
          • denisnh
            Hi John, I can t believe it took me over six months to answer your post. :-) Guess my post sort of fell through the cracks. I have a project going now that I
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 4, 2006
              Hi John,
              I can't believe it took me over six months to answer your post. :-)
              Guess my post sort of fell through the cracks. I have a project
              going now that I was hoping would be done by now but of course it's
              not.

              I agree with you about Jog Along. She's an excellent looking boat.
              Why it's referred to as a "day sailor" is beyond me because she
              seems like much more than that. At minimum, Jog Along would make a
              fine coastal cruiser and short to moderate passages seems within the
              capabilities of this boat providing enough fuel could be stored.
              This boat is everything I would want in a boat, including the salty
              lines, very seaworthy hull design, and especially the dual engines
              in the well. I always have a spare engine on an auxiliary motor
              mount anyway. My current project has a motor well also and I
              believe there are many advantages to this setup.

              I think this boat is as close as I'll get for a build-in-steel
              candidate. I had to rule out aluminum. It's just too expensive for
              my budget!

              I hope to send away for Jog Along's plans within the next few
              weeks. Thanks for posting that design for me.

              Regards,
              Denis

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@... wrote:
              >
              > Jog-Along is in the online catalog now:
              >
              > http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Oar/JogAlong.html
              >
              > I like it. It's a good-looking and seaworthy-looking boat, and I
              like
              > outboards in covered wells (for quiet!). I think it's very
              sensible to _not_
              > try to cram berths into the cuddy of such a small boat. Too bad
              it's
              > designed for steel. ;o) That's not my favorite material.
              >
              > The Atkins had a very good feel for what different hull shapes
              will do,
              > honed by years and years worth of experience. But that just gave
              them the
              > ability to refine the speed guesses produced by some standard boat
              design
              > formulas using weight, horsepower and other measurements. The half-
              a-mile-
              > an-hour accuracy is probably reaching a bit though. <g> When
              building an
              > Atkin design (or any boat), if you want to get the designed speed
              don't make
              > the boat too heavy! Most of the Atkin motorboats are designed to
              operate in
              > the "semi-displacement" or "semi-planing" speed range. Some boats
              can be
              > real pigs when running at those speeds, using lots of fuel and
              throwing big
              > wakes, but the Atkins knew how to get a lot out of a horsepower,
              and enjoyed
              > doing so even after horsepower became cheap. Most of the Atkin
              motorboat
              > designs are intended to _efficiently_ reach a certain speed, and
              while
              > they'll probably run efficiently enough with less power, trying to
              go faster
              > by using more horsepower than designed won't work well...
              >
              > Which V-bottom Seabright skiffs grabbed your interest? A fellow
              here in
              > Oregon is contemplating putting a 25 hp. steam engine into an Atkin
              > Seabright, or V-bottom Seabright, skiff and outrunning all the
              displacement
              > steam launches in the Northwest! <g>
              >
              > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:55:37 -0000, Denis wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Thanks John. Looking forward to seeing Jogalong in the
              catalog. I
              > > know Benford has plans for a 36' steel double-ended dory, so it
              has
              > > been done. In my opinion, the grand banks dory is a good
              candidate
              > > for steel, as it becomes less tender and more stable as it gets
              > > heavier.
              > >
              > > But that's a future project. :) I've sent away for two study
              plans
              > > for the v-bottom seabright skiffs. I'm fascinated with these
              boats
              > > and how the Atkin team was able to enhance the design and improve
              > > performance. I'm also a bit puzzled on how they estimated hull
              > > speed down to a half mile an hour. All I can figure is that they
              > > had a good feel for length to beam ratio, keel depth and width,
              > > stern size and the V deadrise and were able to work all these
              > > factors into an accurate hull speed. The speed calculations
              almost
              > > always work out to be much faster than full displacement speed
              so I
              > > assume there's SOME planing going on.
              > > ...
              >
              > --
              > John <jkohnen@...>
              > http://www.boat-links.com/
              > Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless
              > they meet two conditions:
              > 1. He is a Greek
              > 2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>
              >
            • John Kohnen
              You re almost as slow answering your email as I am, Denis! ;o) What they used to call day cruisers are what we might call weekenders nowadays. They re mostly
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 8, 2006
                You're almost as slow answering your email as I am, Denis! ;o)

                What they used to call "day cruisers" are what we might call weekenders
                nowadays. They're mostly for just spending a day on the water, but have
                enough accommodations for a few nights if need be. More, if you consider
                what you're doing a comfortable kind of "camping" and not an uncomfortable
                sort of RVing. <g> I read something somewhere recently where someone was
                suggesting that was a good attitude to have when cruising in any small
                boat. Jog-Along certainly has as much accommodations as many small
                sailboats touted as "cruisers". "Day cruiser" as a label says nothing
                about the seaworthiness of a design, just it's accommodations. A day
                cruiser could be designed for crossing the river bars of the Northwest to
                go fishing for tuna or halibut miles offshore in the open Pacific, or it
                could be intended for putting around the placid waters of Long Island
                Sound. Different boats with different capabilities but similar
                accommodations.

                What's your current project?

                Good luck with Jog-Along. Take lots of photos!

                On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 11:04:55 -0700, Denis wrote:

                > I can't believe it took me over six months to answer your post. :-)
                > ...Guess my post sort of fell through the cracks. I have a project
                > I agree with you about Jog Along. She's an excellent looking boat.
                > Why it's referred to as a "day sailor" is beyond me because she
                > seems like much more than that. At minimum, Jog Along would make a
                > fine coastal cruiser and short to moderate passages seems within the
                > capabilities of this boat providing enough fuel could be stored.
                > This boat is everything I would want in a boat, including the salty
                > lines, very seaworthy hull design, and especially the dual engines
                > in the well. I always have a spare engine on an auxiliary motor
                > mount anyway. My current project has a motor well also and I
                > believe there are many advantages to this setup.
                >
                > I think this boat is as close as I'll get for a build-in-steel
                > candidate. I had to rule out aluminum. It's just too expensive for
                > my budget!
                > ...

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
                human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
                new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
                and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
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