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question for Valgerda builders on hours estimate to build hull

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  • hawaiimove08
    I m doing project management planning for my Valgerda build. At 4lb./ hour for a wooden boat, I m calculating about 150 hours. Does this follow with your
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 4, 2013
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      I'm doing project management planning for my Valgerda build.

      At 4lb./ hour for a wooden boat, I'm calculating about 150 hours.

      Does this follow with your actual experience?

      Michael
    • packard19532000
      My ignorance is abysmal. Are you taking about GB pounds or ? So this is what you are going to build? http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Valgerda.html ... I m
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 4, 2013
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        My ignorance is abysmal. Are you taking about GB pounds or ? So this is what you are going to build? http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Valgerda.html



        ---In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, <atkinboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        I'm doing project management planning for my Valgerda build.

        At 4lb./ hour for a wooden boat, I'm calculating about 150 hours.

        Does this follow with your actual experience?

        Michael
      • David Calloway
        The answer to your questions are based on many variables, work space, your experience and skills, and the level of the fit and finish you want. Will you be
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 5, 2013
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          The answer to your questions are based on many variables, work space, your experience and skills, and the level of the fit and finish you want. Will you be making or buying your sail? Paint or varnish? The plans call for a lead ballast keel, will you make or buy? Before you start, there is lofting, building the strong back, and making molds. Are you planning to 'glass the outside?

          Not trying to put you off, just asking questions. I like the look of the boat, and would like something like her for the grand kids.

          I've built two smaller boats, and each time it took me twice as long as I guessed.

          Dave

          On Nov 5, 2013 12:48 AM, <genepark2@...> wrote:
           

          My ignorance is abysmal. Are you taking about GB pounds or ? So this is what you are going to build? http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Valgerda.html



          ---In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, <atkinboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          I'm doing project management planning for my Valgerda build.

          At 4lb./ hour for a wooden boat, I'm calculating about 150 hours.

          Does this follow with your actual experience?

          Michael
        • brandonfordus
          It took me about three years to build my Valgerda. I m a pretty good woodworker, but it was my first built-from-scratch boat. Brandon www.valgerda.blogspot.com
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 5, 2013
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            It took me about three years to build my Valgerda. I'm a pretty good woodworker, but it was my first built-from-scratch boat.


            Brandon

            www.valgerda.blogspot.com 



            ---In atkinboats@yahoogroups.com, <hawaiimove08@...> wrote:

            I'm doing project management planning for my Valgerda build.

            At 4lb./ hour for a wooden boat, I'm calculating about 150 hours.

            Does this follow with your actual experience?

            Michael
          • Komendant Lech
            I think that 150h is grossly underestimated. 3 times at least. But personally, if you are first time builder I would change the time unit one level up and
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 5, 2013
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              I think that 150h is grossly underestimated. 3 times at least. But personally, if you are first time builder I would change the time unit one level up and estimate it for 150 working days. Much depend on whether you will build with plywood or planks, how perfect finishing do you expect and so on. It took me +/- 400 days to build my "Czujka" with spars and rows. It was my first build and I had little mechanical tools. It's simple sailing peapod but has nasty curves, lots of fasteners and steambent frames. Valgerda seams much easier to built especially with plywood and epoxy.

              --
              Lech
            • Hawaii Move
              Thank you for your responses! BTW, Does anyone on the forum have contact with Tony Skidmore of BC, Canada? I d like his insight on the mods he made for coastal
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 5, 2013
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                Thank you for your responses!
                BTW, Does anyone on the forum have contact with Tony Skidmore of BC, Canada? I'd like his insight on the mods he made for coastal cruising work.

                Gene,
                I'm using the current 7,000 grain lb. (referencing 7,000 grains of barley, barley being the only real constant in the English/American system).  I believe it's common to both the US and the UK.  I am in the US, not far from where Joshua Slocum rebuilt "The Spray."

                And, yes, you found the boat of which I'm writing.

                I'll build the hull and rig her as closely to the drawing board plans as I am able.   She'll have a lot of gear in her to act as inboard ballast.  The modifications I intend to make are simple and won't much affect windage profile or weight distribution.

                Dave,
                Yes, one's mileage does vary! 

                The 4lb./hour figure isn't a Law of Physics, it's more of a Rule of Thumb that I've heard tossed about at proper shops. I've found it to be reasonable, excluding the re-tooling of the shop for a particular build.  My most recent build, the simple scow from WP Stephens' boatbuilding book, took $60 in spruce ledger boards and 9 hours for the basic hull using a Japanese style handsaw. (Perfect for flycasting the local pond.)

                My need is to do as much of the work myself as possible, so that I may readily do field repairs to the systems.

                The standard of workmanship and finish will be as for a workboat, with pine-tar as opposed to varnish brightwork. No glassing, The Atkins specified that at the lap a small gap should be left to be filled with putty, to accommodate swelling, so no glass.

                I'll spend the winter fabricating sub-assemblies for transport to the building site, which is not yet settled. I have a couple places in mind, and a backup spot just in case.  The casting would be fun, but it will depend on the site restrictions and evading the watchful eye of the Dept. of Environmental Protection and the EPA. Fortunately, Broomfield in Providence is nearby, and they do a fine, fine job.

                Brandon,

                Your 'Raven' is part of my research for the build! Your work is much nicer than mine will be. On the other hand,  I'll have the luxury of being able to spend 4-6 hours a day on the project.  I do better with short, highly focused bursts than longer, sustained efforts.  I'm more of a sprinter than a marathoner, I guess. Intellectual ADHD.

                My Valgerda will be a gunkholing machine.  My finishing and outfitting plans are inspired by MacGregor's Rob Roy Yawl, Both The Aeneid of Virgil, and my fellow Bostonian, Capt. Fritz Fenger and his Yakaboo canoe have inspired my voyaging plan, along with the voyage of St. Paul via Malta.

                Would you mind estimating what your work-schedule was like on 'Raven?' 

                Trouble, the Sailor Dog, makes me smile.  My puppy is a 100lb. Olde English Sheepdog named Chloe.  I think that she would try to herd the other watercraft.

                --Michael


                On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:48 AM, "genepark2@..." <genepark2@...> wrote:
                 
                My ignorance is abysmal. Are you taking about GB pounds or ? So this is what you are going to build? http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Valgerda.html


                ---In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, <atkinboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                I'm doing project management planning for my Valgerda build.

                At 4lb./ hour for a wooden boat, I'm calculating about 150 hours.

                Does this follow with your actual experience?

                Michael


              • stu
                Having dragged out the building process for a 15 canoe over a period of years (I can t bring myself even to say how many), I strongly endorse Lech s estimate.
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 5, 2013
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                  Having dragged out the building process for a 15' canoe over a period of years (I can't bring myself even to say how many), I strongly endorse Lech's estimate.

                  As it happens I'm embarking on my second building project, a 7'2" clinker plywood dinghy design by Iain Oughtred, I'm hoping to contain within the boundaries of the Seattle Grey Season.  I'm going to keep close track to see if I can match my estimates this time.

                  stu
                  master and slave to S/V Ripple
                  http://svripple.blogspot.com/


                  On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 6:27 AM, Komendant Lech <lkomenda@...> wrote:
                   

                  I think that 150h is grossly underestimated. 3 times at least. But personally, if you are first time builder I would change the time unit one level up and estimate it for 150 working days. Much depend on whether you will build with plywood or planks, how perfect finishing do you expect and so on. It took me +/- 400 days to build my "Czujka" with spars and rows. It was my first build and I had little mechanical tools. It's simple sailing peapod but has nasty curves, lots of fasteners and steambent frames. Valgerda seams much easier to built especially with plywood and epoxy.

                  --
                  Lech


                • John Kohnen
                  Brandon made some changes to the design that added to the build time, and paid more attention to finish than some of us would. Built to the plans, Valgerda
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 5, 2013
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                    Brandon made some changes to the design that added to the build time, and
                    paid more attention to finish than some of us would. <g> Built to the
                    plans, Valgerda is a pretty simple boat, with little to it beyond the
                    basic structure. Should be a "relatively" quick build. The one I had (but
                    didn't build) had the plywood planks lapped at the chines, with the
                    internal stringers as shown on the plans. That should be quicker than
                    trying to get a nice, fair chine line without a lap, and is a construction
                    method used by John Welsford and Arch Davis.

                    On Tue, 05 Nov 2013 05:24:28 -0800, Brandon wrote:

                    > It took me about three years to build my Valgerda. I'm a pretty good
                    > woodworker, but it was my first built-from-scratch boat.
                    >
                    > www.valgerda.blogspot.com

                    --
                    John (jkohnen@...)
                    Let us enrich ourselves with our mutual differences. (Paul Valery)
                  • John Frodigh
                    Check out Rick Nardones blog about Valgerda http://ricksboatshop.blogspot.com/ John Frodigh ________________________________ This transmission is not a digital
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 5, 2013
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                      Check out Rick Nardones blog about Valgerda

                      http://ricksboatshop.blogspot.com/


                      John Frodigh

                      ________________________________

                      This transmission is not a digital or electronic signature and cannot be used to form, document, or authenticate a contract. Hilton and its affiliates accept no liability arising in connection with this transmission.Copyright 2013 Hilton Worldwide Proprietary and Confidential
                    • Hawaii Move
                      John, I believe I ve read elsewhere about your boat, and what a lovely and strong job your builder made of her.  The lapped joint was said to be absolutely
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 5, 2013
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                        John,

                        I believe I've read elsewhere about your boat, and what a lovely and strong job your builder made of her.  The lapped joint was said to be absolutely gorgeous.

                        I'm fortunate to live within simple bicycling distance (which for me is around 100 miles, round trip) from Jamestown Distributors, a bit less for Tremont Nail, which makes a hot dipped chisel pointed boat nail that's fantastic (and one of their dealers is 300 feet from my present home).  I also salvaged several gallons of epoxy and hardener from a construction project in a building I worked at. Copper rivets, or clenched steel?  Hmmmm.  :-)

                        I know Brandon 'adjusted' his keel.  If you have the drawing board keel, I have a couple of questions:
                        Some have written that the boat has more than a bit of slippage in a seaway. Have you found that to be true? And, if so, is it a feature rather than a bug (does the slippage help to cope with the seas, as in a Dory)?




                        On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 2:33 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                        Brandon made some changes to the design that added to the build time, and 
                        paid more attention to finish than some of us would. <g> Built to the 
                        plans, Valgerda is a pretty simple boat, with little to it beyond the 
                        basic structure. Should be a "relatively" quick build. The one I had (but 
                        didn't build) had the plywood planks lapped at the chines, with the 
                        internal stringers as shown on the plans. That should be quicker than 
                        trying to get a nice, fair chine line without a lap, and is a construction 
                        method used by John Welsford and Arch Davis.

                        On Tue, 05 Nov 2013 05:24:28 -0800, Brandon wrote:

                        > It took me about three years to build my Valgerda. I'm a pretty good 
                        > woodworker, but it was my first built-from-scratch boat.
                        >
                        >  www.valgerda.blogspot.com

                        --
                        John (jkohnen@...)
                        Let us enrich ourselves with our mutual differences. (Paul Valery)



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                      • gene park
                        Thanx for information. I wish you easy seas and fair winds when you sail in her. I joined the group because I think that my Windwitch is an AtkinÆs design
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 5, 2013
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                          Thanx for information. I wish you easy seas and fair winds when you sail in her. I joined the group because I think that my Windwitch is an Atkin’s design built at Fellows & Stewart in 1949. She is a 33’ Bermuda rigged cutter. I say my boat, because the seller and I have a verbal agreement. I owned her when I lived in Sausalito in 1968. Now in my old age I am going to buy her back. All research regarding Fellows & Stewart and Atkin has been futile. When I owned her in California, the myth about the history of the boat that she had been built at the order of a movie star who wanted to keep her police officer husband out of her hair. It is reputed that he singlehanded her to Tahiti, but then had her shipped back as deck freight on a steamer. 
                          If anyone has any info to verify the designer and builder would appreciated.

                          Gene

                          On Nov 5, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Hawaii Move <hawaiimove08@...> wrote:




                          Thank you for your responses!
                          BTW, Does anyone on the forum have contact with Tony Skidmore of BC, Canada? I'd like his insight on the mods he made for coastal cruising work.

                          Gene,
                          I'm using the current 7,000 grain lb. (referencing 7,000 grains of barley, barley being the only real constant in the English/American system).  I believe it's common to both the US and the UK.  I am in the US, not far from where Joshua Slocum rebuilt "The Spray."

                          And, yes, you found the boat of which I'm writing. 

                          I'll build the hull and rig her as closely to the drawing board plans as I am able.   She'll have a lot of gear in her to act as inboard ballast.  The modifications I intend to make are simple and won't much affect windage profile or weight distribution.

                          Dave,
                          Yes, one's mileage does vary!  

                          The 4lb./hour figure isn't a Law of Physics, it's more of a Rule of Thumb that I've heard tossed about at proper shops. I've found it to be reasonable, excluding the re-tooling of the shop for a particular build.  My most recent build, the simple scow from WP Stephens' boatbuilding book, took $60 in spruce ledger boards and 9 hours for the basic hull using a Japanese style handsaw. (Perfect for flycasting the local pond.)

                          My need is to do as much of the work myself as possible, so that I may readily do field repairs to the systems.

                          The standard of workmanship and finish will be as for a workboat, with pine-tar as opposed to varnish brightwork. No glassing, The Atkins specified that at the lap a small gap should be left to be filled with putty, to accommodate swelling, so no glass.

                          I'll spend the winter fabricating sub-assemblies for transport to the building site, which is not yet settled. I have a couple places in mind, and a backup spot just in case.  The casting would be fun, but it will depend on the site restrictions and evading the watchful eye of the Dept. of Environmental Protection and the EPA. Fortunately, Broomfield in Providence is nearby, and they do a fine, fine job.

                          Brandon,

                          Your 'Raven' is part of my research for the build! Your work is much nicer than mine will be. On the other hand,  I'll have the luxury of being able to spend 4-6 hours a day on the project.  I do better with short, highly focused bursts than longer, sustained efforts.  I'm more of a sprinter than a marathoner, I guess. Intellectual ADHD.

                          My Valgerda will be a gunkholing machine.  My finishing and outfitting plans are inspired by MacGregor's Rob Roy Yawl, Both The Aeneid of Virgil, and my fellow Bostonian, Capt. Fritz Fenger and his Yakaboo canoe have inspired my voyaging plan, along with the voyage of St. Paul via Malta.

                          Would you mind estimating what your work-schedule was like on 'Raven?'  

                          Trouble, the Sailor Dog, makes me smile.  My puppy is a 100lb. Olde English Sheepdog named Chloe.  I think that she would try to herd the other watercraft.

                          --Michael


                          On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:48 AM, "genepark2@..." <genepark2@...> wrote:
                           
                          My ignorance is abysmal. Are you taking about GB pounds or ? So this is what you are going to build? http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Valgerda.html


                          ---In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, <atkinboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          I'm doing project management planning for my Valgerda build.

                          At 4lb./ hour for a wooden boat, I'm calculating about 150 hours.

                          Does this follow with your actual experience?

                          Michael




                        • brandonfordus
                          Michael, I did not keep track of dollars or time while building Ravn. I usually put in two long days a week and tried to do a little something each of the
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 6, 2013
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                            Michael,


                            I did not keep track of dollars or time while building Ravn. I usually put in two long days a week and tried to do a little something each of the other days. I did have a foot infection that kept me from working on the boat for about six months. A also spent a lot of time in the moaning chair looking at the boat and trying to figure out what to do next.


                            Brandon 



                            ---In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, <hawaiimove08@...> wrote:



                            Thank you for your responses!
                            BTW, Does anyone on the forum have contact with Tony Skidmore of BC, Canada? I'd like his insight on the mods he made for coastal cruising work.

                            Gene,
                            I'm using the current 7,000 grain lb. (referencing 7,000 grains of barley, barley being the only real constant in the English/American system).  I believe it's common to both the US and the UK.  I am in the US, not far from where Joshua Slocum rebuilt "The Spray."

                            And, yes, you found the boat of which I'm writing.

                            I'll build the hull and rig her as closely to the drawing board plans as I am able.   She'll have a lot of gear in her to act as inboard ballast.  The modifications I intend to make are simple and won't much affect windage profile or weight distribution.

                            Dave,
                            Yes, one's mileage does vary! 

                            The 4lb./hour figure isn't a Law of Physics, it's more of a Rule of Thumb that I've heard tossed about at proper shops. I've found it to be reasonable, excluding the re-tooling of the shop for a particular build.  My most recent build, the simple scow from WP Stephens' boatbuilding book, took $60 in spruce ledger boards and 9 hours for the basic hull using a Japanese style handsaw. (Perfect for flycasting the local pond.)

                            My need is to do as much of the work myself as possible, so that I may readily do field repairs to the systems.

                            The standard of workmanship and finish will be as for a workboat, with pine-tar as opposed to varnish brightwork. No glassing, The Atkins specified that at the lap a small gap should be left to be filled with putty, to accommodate swelling, so no glass.

                            I'll spend the winter fabricating sub-assemblies for transport to the building site, which is not yet settled. I have a couple places in mind, and a backup spot just in case.  The casting would be fun, but it will depend on the site restrictions and evading the watchful eye of the Dept. of Environmental Protection and the EPA. Fortunately, Broomfield in Providence is nearby, and they do a fine, fine job.

                            Brandon,

                            Your 'Raven' is part of my research for the build! Your work is much nicer than mine will be. On the other hand,  I'll have the luxury of being able to spend 4-6 hours a day on the project.  I do better with short, highly focused bursts than longer, sustained efforts.  I'm more of a sprinter than a marathoner, I guess. Intellectual ADHD.

                            My Valgerda will be a gunkholing machine.  My finishing and outfitting plans are inspired by MacGregor's Rob Roy Yawl, Both The Aeneid of Virgil, and my fellow Bostonian, Capt. Fritz Fenger and his Yakaboo canoe have inspired my voyaging plan, along with the voyage of St. Paul via Malta.

                            Would you mind estimating what your work-schedule was like on 'Raven?' 

                            Trouble, the Sailor Dog, makes me smile.  My puppy is a 100lb. Olde English Sheepdog named Chloe.  I think that she would try to herd the other watercraft.

                            --Michael


                            On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:48 AM, "genepark2@..." <genepark2@...> wrote:
                             
                            My ignorance is abysmal. Are you taking about GB pounds or ? So this is what you are going to build? http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Valgerda.html


                            ---In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, <atkinboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            I'm doing project management planning for my Valgerda build.

                            At 4lb./ hour for a wooden boat, I'm calculating about 150 hours.

                            Does this follow with your actual experience?

                            Michael


                          • Hawaii Move
                            Brandon, Ah, yes.  I have spent many quality hours in my own weeping chair, restraining myself from cutting up the stuff I d spent hours and hours crafting
                            Message 13 of 15 , Nov 6, 2013
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                              Brandon,
                              Ah, yes.  I have spent many quality hours in my own weeping chair, restraining myself from cutting up the stuff I'd spent hours and hours crafting from dimensional lumber into stupid error. I've always taken courage from H.H. Payson's story about his weeping chair. Amazing the errors someone such as me can make even with a simple dory.

                              Pardon my laziness for not searching this out from your blog, but what did you do about the rudder fittings (Pintles and gudgeons)?   And are there things you might do differently, know that you have the build done and time to reflect?

                              Michael






                              On Wednesday, November 6, 2013 8:54 AM, "brandonfordus@..." <brandonfordus@...> wrote:
                               
                              Michael,

                              I did not keep track of dollars or time while building Ravn. I usually put in two long days a week and tried to do a little something each of the other days. I did have a foot infection that kept me from working on the boat for about six months. A also spent a lot of time in the moaning chair looking at the boat and trying to figure out what to do next.

                              Brandon 


                              ---In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, <hawaiimove08@...> wrote:



                              Thank you for your responses!
                              BTW, Does anyone on the forum have contact with Tony Skidmore of BC, Canada? I'd like his insight on the mods he made for coastal cruising work.

                              Gene,
                              I'm using the current 7,000 grain lb. (referencing 7,000 grains of barley, barley being the only real constant in the English/American system).  I believe it's common to both the US and the UK.  I am in the US, not far from where Joshua Slocum rebuilt "The Spray."

                              And, yes, you found the boat of which I'm writing.

                              I'll build the hull and rig her as closely to the drawing board plans as I am able.   She'll have a lot of gear in her to act as inboard ballast.  The modifications I intend to make are simple and won't much affect windage profile or weight distribution.

                              Dave,
                              Yes, one's mileage does vary! 

                              The 4lb./hour figure isn't a Law of Physics, it's more of a Rule of Thumb that I've heard tossed about at proper shops. I've found it to be reasonable, excluding the re-tooling of the shop for a particular build.  My most recent build, the simple scow from WP Stephens' boatbuilding book, took $60 in spruce ledger boards and 9 hours for the basic hull using a Japanese style handsaw. (Perfect for flycasting the local pond.)

                              My need is to do as much of the work myself as possible, so that I may readily do field repairs to the systems.

                              The standard of workmanship and finish will be as for a workboat, with pine-tar as opposed to varnish brightwork. No glassing, The Atkins specified that at the lap a small gap should be left to be filled with putty, to accommodate swelling, so no glass.

                              I'll spend the winter fabricating sub-assemblies for transport to the building site, which is not yet settled. I have a couple places in mind, and a backup spot just in case.  The casting would be fun, but it will depend on the site restrictions and evading the watchful eye of the Dept. of Environmental Protection and the EPA. Fortunately, Broomfield in Providence is nearby, and they do a fine, fine job.

                              Brandon,

                              Your 'Raven' is part of my research for the build! Your work is much nicer than mine will be. On the other hand,  I'll have the luxury of being able to spend 4-6 hours a day on the project.  I do better with short, highly focused bursts than longer, sustained efforts.  I'm more of a sprinter than a marathoner, I guess. Intellectual ADHD.

                              My Valgerda will be a gunkholing machine.  My finishing and outfitting plans are inspired by MacGregor's Rob Roy Yawl, Both The Aeneid of Virgil, and my fellow Bostonian, Capt. Fritz Fenger and his Yakaboo canoe have inspired my voyaging plan, along with the voyage of St. Paul via Malta.

                              Would you mind estimating what your work-schedule was like on 'Raven?' 

                              Trouble, the Sailor Dog, makes me smile.  My puppy is a 100lb. Olde English Sheepdog named Chloe.  I think that she would try to herd the other watercraft.

                              --Michael


                              On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:48 AM, "genepark2@..." <genepark2@...> wrote:
                               
                              My ignorance is abysmal. Are you taking about GB pounds or ? So this is what you are going to build? http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Valgerda.html


                              ---In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, <atkinboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                              I'm doing project management planning for my Valgerda build.

                              At 4lb./ hour for a wooden boat, I'm calculating about 150 hours.

                              Does this follow with your actual experience?

                              Michael




                            • Hawaii Move
                              Congratulations on getting a seoncd bite at the apple by coming to take care of Windwitch once more.  She must have spoken to your soul. Best wishes to you,
                              Message 14 of 15 , Nov 6, 2013
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                                Congratulations on getting a seoncd bite at the apple by coming to take care of Windwitch once more.  She must have spoken to your soul.

                                Best wishes to you, also.

                                Michael





                                On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 4:53 PM, gene park <genepark2@...> wrote:
                                 
                                Thanx for information. I wish you easy seas and fair winds when you sail in her. I joined the group because I think that my Windwitch is an Atkin’s design built at Fellows & Stewart in 1949. She is a 33’ Bermuda rigged cutter. I say my boat, because the seller and I have a verbal agreement. I owned her when I lived in Sausalito in 1968. Now in my old age I am going to buy her back. All research regarding Fellows & Stewart and Atkin has been futile. When I owned her in California, the myth about the history of the boat that she had been built at the order of a movie star who wanted to keep her police officer husband out of her hair. It is reputed that he singlehanded her to Tahiti, but then had her shipped back as deck freight on a steamer. 
                                If anyone has any info to verify the designer and builder would appreciated.

                                Gene

                                On Nov 5, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Hawaii Move <hawaiimove08@...> wrote:




                                Thank you for your responses!
                                BTW, Does anyone on the forum have contact with Tony Skidmore of BC, Canada? I'd like his insight on the mods he made for coastal cruising work.

                                Gene,
                                I'm using the current 7,000 grain lb. (referencing 7,000 grains of barley, barley being the only real constant in the English/American system).  I believe it's common to both the US and the UK.  I am in the US, not far from where Joshua Slocum rebuilt "The Spray."

                                And, yes, you found the boat of which I'm writing. 

                                I'll build the hull and rig her as closely to the drawing board plans as I am able.   She'll have a lot of gear in her to act as inboard ballast.  The modifications I intend to make are simple and won't much affect windage profile or weight distribution.

                                Dave,
                                Yes, one's mileage does vary!  

                                The 4lb./hour figure isn't a Law of Physics, it's more of a Rule of Thumb that I've heard tossed about at proper shops. I've found it to be reasonable, excluding the re-tooling of the shop for a particular build.  My most recent build, the simple scow from WP Stephens' boatbuilding book, took $60 in spruce ledger boards and 9 hours for the basic hull using a Japanese style handsaw. (Perfect for flycasting the local pond.)

                                My need is to do as much of the work myself as possible, so that I may readily do field repairs to the systems.

                                The standard of workmanship and finish will be as for a workboat, with pine-tar as opposed to varnish brightwork. No glassing, The Atkins specified that at the lap a small gap should be left to be filled with putty, to accommodate swelling, so no glass.

                                I'll spend the winter fabricating sub-assemblies for transport to the building site, which is not yet settled. I have a couple places in mind, and a backup spot just in case.  The casting would be fun, but it will depend on the site restrictions and evading the watchful eye of the Dept. of Environmental Protection and the EPA. Fortunately, Broomfield in Providence is nearby, and they do a fine, fine job.

                                Brandon,

                                Your 'Raven' is part of my research for the build! Your work is much nicer than mine will be. On the other hand,  I'll have the luxury of being able to spend 4-6 hours a day on the project.  I do better with short, highly focused bursts than longer, sustained efforts.  I'm more of a sprinter than a marathoner, I guess. Intellectual ADHD.

                                My Valgerda will be a gunkholing machine.  My finishing and outfitting plans are inspired by MacGregor's Rob Roy Yawl, Both The Aeneid of Virgil, and my fellow Bostonian, Capt. Fritz Fenger and his Yakaboo canoe have inspired my voyaging plan, along with the voyage of St. Paul via Malta.

                                Would you mind estimating what your work-schedule was like on 'Raven?'  

                                Trouble, the Sailor Dog, makes me smile.  My puppy is a 100lb. Olde English Sheepdog named Chloe.  I think that she would try to herd the other watercraft.

                                --Michael


                                On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:48 AM, "genepark2@..." <genepark2@...> wrote:
                                 
                                My ignorance is abysmal. Are you taking about GB pounds or ? So this is what you are going to build? http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Valgerda.html


                                ---In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, <atkinboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                I'm doing project management planning for my Valgerda build.

                                At 4lb./ hour for a wooden boat, I'm calculating about 150 hours.

                                Does this follow with your actual experience?

                                Michael






                              • brandonfordus
                                All that kind of stuff is in the blog. Here s the post on gudgeons: http://valgerda.blogspot.com/2009/10/gudgeons-and-gudgeons.html
                                Message 15 of 15 , Nov 7, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  All that kind of stuff is in the blog. Here's the post on gudgeons: 

                                  http://valgerda.blogspot.com/2009/10/gudgeons-and-gudgeons.html 


                                  I use stainless steel rod. It tends to get bent up and I can replace it for about $5. I've done that twice.


                                  Brandon

                                  http://valgerda.blogspot.com



                                  ---In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, <hawaiimove08@...> wrote:

                                  Brandon,
                                  Ah, yes.  I have spent many quality hours in my own weeping chair, restraining myself from cutting up the stuff I'd spent hours and hours crafting from dimensional lumber into stupid error. I've always taken courage from H.H. Payson's story about his weeping chair. Amazing the errors someone such as me can make even with a simple dory.

                                  Pardon my laziness for not searching this out from your blog, but what did you do about the rudder fittings (Pintles and gudgeons)?   And are there things you might do differently, know that you have the build done and time to reflect?

                                  Michael






                                  On Wednesday, November 6, 2013 8:54 AM, "brandonfordus@..." <brandonfordus@...> wrote:
                                   
                                  Michael,

                                  I did not keep track of dollars or time while building Ravn. I usually put in two long days a week and tried to do a little something each of the other days. I did have a foot infection that kept me from working on the boat for about six months. A also spent a lot of time in the moaning chair looking at the boat and trying to figure out what to do next.

                                  Brandon 


                                  ---In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, <hawaiimove08@...> wrote:



                                  Thank you for your responses!
                                  BTW, Does anyone on the forum have contact with Tony Skidmore of BC, Canada? I'd like his insight on the mods he made for coastal cruising work.

                                  Gene,
                                  I'm using the current 7,000 grain lb. (referencing 7,000 grains of barley, barley being the only real constant in the English/American system).  I believe it's common to both the US and the UK.  I am in the US, not far from where Joshua Slocum rebuilt "The Spray."

                                  And, yes, you found the boat of which I'm writing.

                                  I'll build the hull and rig her as closely to the drawing board plans as I am able.   She'll have a lot of gear in her to act as inboard ballast.  The modifications I intend to make are simple and won't much affect windage profile or weight distribution.

                                  Dave,
                                  Yes, one's mileage does vary! 

                                  The 4lb./hour figure isn't a Law of Physics, it's more of a Rule of Thumb that I've heard tossed about at proper shops. I've found it to be reasonable, excluding the re-tooling of the shop for a particular build.  My most recent build, the simple scow from WP Stephens' boatbuilding book, took $60 in spruce ledger boards and 9 hours for the basic hull using a Japanese style handsaw. (Perfect for flycasting the local pond.)

                                  My need is to do as much of the work myself as possible, so that I may readily do field repairs to the systems.

                                  The standard of workmanship and finish will be as for a workboat, with pine-tar as opposed to varnish brightwork. No glassing, The Atkins specified that at the lap a small gap should be left to be filled with putty, to accommodate swelling, so no glass.

                                  I'll spend the winter fabricating sub-assemblies for transport to the building site, which is not yet settled. I have a couple places in mind, and a backup spot just in case.  The casting would be fun, but it will depend on the site restrictions and evading the watchful eye of the Dept. of Environmental Protection and the EPA. Fortunately, Broomfield in Providence is nearby, and they do a fine, fine job.

                                  Brandon,

                                  Your 'Raven' is part of my research for the build! Your work is much nicer than mine will be. On the other hand,  I'll have the luxury of being able to spend 4-6 hours a day on the project.  I do better with short, highly focused bursts than longer, sustained efforts.  I'm more of a sprinter than a marathoner, I guess. Intellectual ADHD.

                                  My Valgerda will be a gunkholing machine.  My finishing and outfitting plans are inspired by MacGregor's Rob Roy Yawl, Both The Aeneid of Virgil, and my fellow Bostonian, Capt. Fritz Fenger and his Yakaboo canoe have inspired my voyaging plan, along with the voyage of St. Paul via Malta.

                                  Would you mind estimating what your work-schedule was like on 'Raven?' 

                                  Trouble, the Sailor Dog, makes me smile.  My puppy is a 100lb. Olde English Sheepdog named Chloe.  I think that she would try to herd the other watercraft.

                                  --Michael


                                  On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:48 AM, "genepark2@..." <genepark2@...> wrote:
                                   
                                  My ignorance is abysmal. Are you taking about GB pounds or ? So this is what you are going to build? http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Valgerda.html


                                  ---In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, <atkinboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                  I'm doing project management planning for my Valgerda build.

                                  At 4lb./ hour for a wooden boat, I'm calculating about 150 hours.

                                  Does this follow with your actual experience?

                                  Michael




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