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Re: Power for Ninigret

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  • jj_warde
    Hi Bill: I tried a Ninigret with 50hp; that was overkill and the motor s tall dog house did not fit clean looks that J. Atkin originally drew. With 4+ aboard
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 20, 2011
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      Hi Bill:

      I tried a Ninigret with 50hp; that was overkill and the motor's tall dog house did not fit clean looks that J. Atkin originally drew. With 4+ aboard the Bigfoot Merc 25 4-stroke does fine. I've found that balancing the load is key with its semi-displacement hull design. With 2 in the cuddy, 2 in fixed seats and 2 in folding canvas chairs in the cockpit it doesn't "bog-down." That motor has more "beef" that a std 25. You will understand if you ever see its crankshaft. Good luck with you new machine.

      JJ



      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Edgar Boyd" <boydmaine@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Thanks to JJ and John for your input.
      >
      > I've decided to go with a 40hp Honda for my Ninigret build. Wanting to have power in reserve is certainly one reason, and is more important than speed although that can be nice, too.
      >
      > Also, dealers are making the point that 20" shaft motors will last longer that 15" shafts because they don't get wet or doused as often, especially key in salt water..
      >
      > The negatives, of course, are the added weight and the cost, but overall I'm happy with the decision. 40hp is no longer considered above the norm for Ninigret.
      >
      > Bill
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Good info. Thanks, JJ. How does your Ninigret perform with a load? That's
      > > more important, in many cases, than top speed with a light load. Bill
      > > Childs, of Bartender Boats, had a 19' Bartender with a cuddy powered by a
      > > 25 hp. Honda. It performed quite well, and economically with just he and
      > > his wife aboard, but bogged down when he took a couple more people along
      > > (I recall one trip across Port Townsend with five or six people aboard
      > > when we could only manage displacement speeds). Now Bill recommends a
      > > 35-40 hp. for 19' bartenders. You can cruise at low throttle settings most
      > > of the time, but have extra oomph when you need to carry a load. There's a
      > > lot to be said for running a motor at a quieter, less taxing throttle
      > > setting most of the time.
      > >
      > > Tohatsus are good motors. I've had three of their 4-strokes so far and
      > > haven't had any trouble with them, except that the 3.5 must have had the
      > > idle mixture set on a Friday or Monday at the factory. <g> I had to drill
      > > out the plug that's supposed to keep you from fooling with the idle
      > > mixture and set it myself. Tohatsu makes Nissan outboards, and the
      > > 4-stroke Mercuries. I've got a 3.5 hp. with the cheap Tohatsu decals; a 5
      > > hp. with the more expensive Nissan decals; and a 9.9 Merc with the most
      > > expensive decals of all. ;o) (though some Mercury models, including my
      > > Bigfoot, have features the Tohatsu and Nissan branded motors don't...)
      > >
      > > On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 18:41:48 -0700, JJ wrote:
      > >
      > > > ...
      > > > I have a Ninigret built in 2000 by Tony Bries (Freedom Boats); pictures
      > > > of our and his boat are on the Atkin website. Both are powered by a
      > > > 25hp 4-stroke Merc "Bigfoot" short-shaft (15"). That set-up allows
      > > > transom mounting and low-profile covered enclosure like the original
      > > > plans illustrate. That motor has worked very well in terms of fuel
      > > > consumption, power and being very quiet.
      > > > ...
      > > > In flat water it tops out at 18 mph (confirmed by GPS) and has torque
      > > > for river current and steep chop.
      > > >
      > > > I have done some research for a potential replacement. One that I've
      > > > considered is a 30 hp 4-stoke 15" short shaft from Tohatsu (model
      > > > #MFS30BEPTS). It weights 178lbs with electric start/tilt with remote
      > > > steering.
      > > > You also may be interested to know that there are 40hp 15" short-shafts
      > > > still being made but in 2-stoke. Both Tohatsu (# MD40B2EPTOS) and
      > > > Nissan (# NSD40B2EPTO1) have such motors; both weigh about 210lbs.
      > > > ...
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > John (jkohnen@)
      > > There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music
      > > and cats. (Albert Schweitzer)
      > >
      >
    • John Kohnen
      Thanks a lot, JJ! That s really good info, based on actual experience. I m pleased that Ninigret goes along fine with the 25 hp. Merc. I don t recall, is that
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 5, 2011
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        Thanks a lot, JJ! That's really good info, based on actual experience. I'm
        pleased that Ninigret goes along fine with the 25 hp. Merc. I don't
        recall, is that a 4-stroke Merc? There are advantages to having extra
        power for a load, but it always comes with extra weight -- extra weight
        just where you don't want it, even when the engine is in a well. That's
        especially a concern with today's heavy, bulky motors. I'll again
        recommend the Bartender group for it's discussions about putting modern
        outboards into a boat designed when motors were smaller and lighter:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bartenderboat/

        On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:13:28 -0700, JJ wrote:

        >
        > The Ninigret does very well with the Bigfoot 25 and 4-6 aboard. I've
        > found that the key element, with its semi-displacement hull design, is
        > balancing the load and keeping weight out of the stern. That's why a
        > reasonably light motor works so well. I tried a Merc 50 in a Ninigret
        > and that was overkill, stern-heavy, and the motor's "dog house"
        > unsightly.
        > I put most gear and 2 folks (or more) in the cuddy; becasue it's open to
        > the cockpit they don't feel isolated. I also carry two fold-up chairs to
        > use benind the stearing/co-pilot fixed seats.
        > A point to note is that the Merc Bigfoot is beefier than the standard
        > 25hp; it was intented to push pontoon boats with its biggger prop. The
        > crankshaft is a brute.
        > Good luck with your new motor. I think that ninigret's hull weight and
        > design accomodates a relatively wide range of power units.

        --
        John (jkohnen@...)
        The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene
        of older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the
        blood. (Logan Pearsall Smith)
      • jj_warde
        Hi John: I use a 25 hp Merc Bigfoot which is a 4-stroke. It is a 2000 so it s got a carb. Merc still makes a 15 short-shaft fuel-injected 4-stokes in 30 &
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 11, 2011
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          Hi John:

          I use a 25 hp Merc Bigfoot which is a 4-stroke. It is a 2000 so it's got a carb. Merc still makes a 15" short-shaft fuel-injected 4-stokes in 30 & 40hp with remote steering. However the Bigfoot 40 hp is a 20 shaft.
          JJ



          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks a lot, JJ! That's really good info, based on actual experience. I'm
          > pleased that Ninigret goes along fine with the 25 hp. Merc. I don't
          > recall, is that a 4-stroke Merc? There are advantages to having extra
          > power for a load, but it always comes with extra weight -- extra weight
          > just where you don't want it, even when the engine is in a well. That's
          > especially a concern with today's heavy, bulky motors. I'll again
          > recommend the Bartender group for it's discussions about putting modern
          > outboards into a boat designed when motors were smaller and lighter:
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bartenderboat/
          >
          > On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:13:28 -0700, JJ wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > The Ninigret does very well with the Bigfoot 25 and 4-6 aboard. I've
          > > found that the key element, with its semi-displacement hull design, is
          > > balancing the load and keeping weight out of the stern. That's why a
          > > reasonably light motor works so well. I tried a Merc 50 in a Ninigret
          > > and that was overkill, stern-heavy, and the motor's "dog house"
          > > unsightly.
          > > I put most gear and 2 folks (or more) in the cuddy; becasue it's open to
          > > the cockpit they don't feel isolated. I also carry two fold-up chairs to
          > > use benind the stearing/co-pilot fixed seats.
          > > A point to note is that the Merc Bigfoot is beefier than the standard
          > > 25hp; it was intented to push pontoon boats with its biggger prop. The
          > > crankshaft is a brute.
          > > Good luck with your new motor. I think that ninigret's hull weight and
          > > design accomodates a relatively wide range of power units.
          >
          > --
          > John (jkohnen@...)
          > The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene
          > of older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the
          > blood. (Logan Pearsall Smith)
          >
        • Edgar Boyd
          Thanks again for all the comments relating to powering Ninigret. Largely because of this input I ve changed my mind and decided to go with a 30hp short shaft
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 13, 2011
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            Thanks again for all the comments relating to powering Ninigret. Largely because of this input I've changed my mind and decided to go with a 30hp short shaft Honda 4 stroke. The Honda 30 weighs the same as the 25.

            Bill B


            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "jj_warde" <jj_warde@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi John:
            >
            > I use a 25 hp Merc Bigfoot which is a 4-stroke. It is a 2000 so it's got a carb. Merc still makes a 15" short-shaft fuel-injected 4-stokes in 30 & 40hp with remote steering. However the Bigfoot 40 hp is a 20 shaft.
            > JJ
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Thanks a lot, JJ! That's really good info, based on actual experience. I'm
            > > pleased that Ninigret goes along fine with the 25 hp. Merc. I don't
            > > recall, is that a 4-stroke Merc? There are advantages to having extra
            > > power for a load, but it always comes with extra weight -- extra weight
            > > just where you don't want it, even when the engine is in a well. That's
            > > especially a concern with today's heavy, bulky motors. I'll again
            > > recommend the Bartender group for it's discussions about putting modern
            > > outboards into a boat designed when motors were smaller and lighter:
            > >
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bartenderboat/
            > >
            > > On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:13:28 -0700, JJ wrote:
            > >
            > > >
            > > > The Ninigret does very well with the Bigfoot 25 and 4-6 aboard. I've
            > > > found that the key element, with its semi-displacement hull design, is
            > > > balancing the load and keeping weight out of the stern. That's why a
            > > > reasonably light motor works so well. I tried a Merc 50 in a Ninigret
            > > > and that was overkill, stern-heavy, and the motor's "dog house"
            > > > unsightly.
            > > > I put most gear and 2 folks (or more) in the cuddy; becasue it's open to
            > > > the cockpit they don't feel isolated. I also carry two fold-up chairs to
            > > > use benind the stearing/co-pilot fixed seats.
            > > > A point to note is that the Merc Bigfoot is beefier than the standard
            > > > 25hp; it was intented to push pontoon boats with its biggger prop. The
            > > > crankshaft is a brute.
            > > > Good luck with your new motor. I think that ninigret's hull weight and
            > > > design accomodates a relatively wide range of power units.
            > >
            > > --
            > > John (jkohnen@)
            > > The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene
            > > of older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the
            > > blood. (Logan Pearsall Smith)
            > >
            >
          • manyboat
            I m not usually a fan of Honda s but for Ninigret I d say it s ideal in that ity s 30hp. Also it s a 3 cylinder engine instead of a twin. Twin cyl 2 strokes
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 24, 2011
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              I'm not usually a fan of Honda's but for Ninigret I'd say it's ideal in that ity's 30hp. Also it's a 3 cylinder engine instead of a twin. Twin cyl 2 strokes are quite smooth but 4 stroke twins are'nt as smooth. Think of a oldTriumph motorcycle. But a bigger advantage of the honda 30 is that it's the biggest OB engine available with carbs. I have a 40 and a 60hp OB with fuel injection and it scares me a bit.....they are so heavy and complicated. So if I had a Ninigret I'd be looking at the Honda 30.

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Edgar Boyd" <boydmaine@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks again for all the comments relating to powering Ninigret. Largely because of this input I've changed my mind and decided to go with a 30hp short shaft Honda 4 stroke. The Honda 30 weighs the same as the 25.
              >
              > Bill B
              >
              >
              > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "jj_warde" <jj_warde@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi John:
              > >
              > > I use a 25 hp Merc Bigfoot which is a 4-stroke. It is a 2000 so it's got a carb. Merc still makes a 15" short-shaft fuel-injected 4-stokes in 30 & 40hp with remote steering. However the Bigfoot 40 hp is a 20 shaft.
              > > JJ
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Thanks a lot, JJ! That's really good info, based on actual experience. I'm
              > > > pleased that Ninigret goes along fine with the 25 hp. Merc. I don't
              > > > recall, is that a 4-stroke Merc? There are advantages to having extra
              > > > power for a load, but it always comes with extra weight -- extra weight
              > > > just where you don't want it, even when the engine is in a well. That's
              > > > especially a concern with today's heavy, bulky motors. I'll again
              > > > recommend the Bartender group for it's discussions about putting modern
              > > > outboards into a boat designed when motors were smaller and lighter:
              > > >
              > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bartenderboat/
              > > >
              > > > On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:13:28 -0700, JJ wrote:
              > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > The Ninigret does very well with the Bigfoot 25 and 4-6 aboard. I've
              > > > > found that the key element, with its semi-displacement hull design, is
              > > > > balancing the load and keeping weight out of the stern. That's why a
              > > > > reasonably light motor works so well. I tried a Merc 50 in a Ninigret
              > > > > and that was overkill, stern-heavy, and the motor's "dog house"
              > > > > unsightly.
              > > > > I put most gear and 2 folks (or more) in the cuddy; becasue it's open to
              > > > > the cockpit they don't feel isolated. I also carry two fold-up chairs to
              > > > > use benind the stearing/co-pilot fixed seats.
              > > > > A point to note is that the Merc Bigfoot is beefier than the standard
              > > > > 25hp; it was intented to push pontoon boats with its biggger prop. The
              > > > > crankshaft is a brute.
              > > > > Good luck with your new motor. I think that ninigret's hull weight and
              > > > > design accomodates a relatively wide range of power units.
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > > John (jkohnen@)
              > > > The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene
              > > > of older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the
              > > > blood. (Logan Pearsall Smith)
              > > >
              > >
              >
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