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Building Ninigret

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  • Edgar Boyd
    I m just starting to build Ninigret at the Boatshop at the Maine Maritime Museum in Bath, ME. I d enjoy having anyone s input about things as we go along. I
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 13, 2011
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      I'm just starting to build Ninigret at the Boatshop at the Maine Maritime Museum in Bath, ME. I'd enjoy having anyone's input about things as we go along.

      I might put a Honda 40 in it. Any other Honda 40s in a Ninigret? If so, does it seem to be a good match? Does anyone know what the dimensions of the motor housing would be with a 40?

      I'm pleased to have found this site. I hope to correspond with some of you.

      Bill


      Sent from my iPad
    • John Almberg
      You should be able to get complete mechanical drawings of the engine from Honda. Yamaha supplies them in the maintenance manual. It s handy to have *all* the
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 14, 2011
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        You should be able to get complete mechanical drawings of the engine from Honda. Yamaha supplies them in the maintenance manual. It's handy to have *all* the dimensions when fitting an engine, although I imagine any modern 40 would fit, since engines have gotten smaller over the years.

        -- John


        On Sep 13, 2011, at 11:36 PM, Edgar Boyd wrote:

         


        I'm just starting to build Ninigret at the Boatshop at the Maine Maritime Museum in Bath, ME. I'd enjoy having anyone's input about things as we go along.

        I might put a Honda 40 in it. Any other Honda 40s in a Ninigret? If so, does it seem to be a good match? Does anyone know what the dimensions of the motor housing would be with a 40?

        I'm pleased to have found this site. I hope to correspond with some of you.

        Bill

        Sent from my iPad


      • John Kohnen
        Outboard motors generally got more compact until recent years when four-strokes and fuel-injected two-strokes came along. A modern motor will probably be
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 14, 2011
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          Outboard motors generally got more compact until recent years when
          four-strokes and fuel-injected two-strokes came along. A modern motor will
          probably be bigger and heavier than the motors John Atkin knew when he
          designed Ninigret, especially down low on the powerhead. Also, you might
          have trouble finding a motor of suitable hp. for Ninigret with a short
          shaft. If you have to enlarge the well to accommodate a modern motor don't
          make the whole well, and the slot in the bottom, wider, flare the top of
          the well to make room. Bill Childs at Bartender Boats has experience
          shoehorning modern four-strokes into 19' Bartenders, and I'll bet he
          wouldn't mind sharing his knowledge. It'd make sense to sign on to the
          Bartender Yahoo group and ask there, so you could learn from other people
          who've put modern motors into an older design. Don't worry, they're a
          friendly bunch over there, and while they favor boats with two pointy ends
          I'm sure they'd help someone who was building a boat with only one pointy
          end that's as nice as Ninigret. <g>:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bartenderboat/

          http://www.bartenderboats.com/

          A 40 hp. Honda oughta be just right for Ninigret.

          On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 06:15:56 -0700, John A wrote:

          > You should be able to get complete mechanical drawings of the engine
          > from Honda. Yamaha supplies them in the maintenance manual. It's handy
          > to have *all* the dimensions when fitting an engine, although I imagine
          > any modern 40 would fit, since engines have gotten smaller over the
          > years.

          --
          John (jkohnen@...)
          Dissent is what rescues democracy from a quiet death behind
          closed doors. (Lewis H. Lapham)
        • John Almberg
          There you go… you learn something new every day with wooden boats!
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 14, 2011
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            There you go… you learn something new every day with wooden boats!

            On Sep 14, 2011, at 3:58 PM, John Kohnen wrote:

            > Outboard motors generally got more compact until recent years when
            > four-strokes and fuel-injected two-strokes came along. A modern motor will
            > probably be bigger and heavier than the motors John Atkin knew when he
            > designed Ninigret, especially down low on the powerhead. Also, you might
            > have trouble finding a motor of suitable hp. for Ninigret with a short
            > shaft. If you have to enlarge the well to accommodate a modern motor don't
            > make the whole well, and the slot in the bottom, wider, flare the top of
            > the well to make room. Bill Childs at Bartender Boats has experience
            > shoehorning modern four-strokes into 19' Bartenders, and I'll bet he
            > wouldn't mind sharing his knowledge. It'd make sense to sign on to the
            > Bartender Yahoo group and ask there, so you could learn from other people
            > who've put modern motors into an older design. Don't worry, they're a
            > friendly bunch over there, and while they favor boats with two pointy ends
            > I'm sure they'd help someone who was building a boat with only one pointy
            > end that's as nice as Ninigret. <g>:
            >
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bartenderboat/
            >
            > http://www.bartenderboats.com/
            >
            > A 40 hp. Honda oughta be just right for Ninigret.
            >
            > On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 06:15:56 -0700, John A wrote:
            >
            >> You should be able to get complete mechanical drawings of the engine
            >> from Honda. Yamaha supplies them in the maintenance manual. It's handy
            >> to have *all* the dimensions when fitting an engine, although I imagine
            >> any modern 40 would fit, since engines have gotten smaller over the
            >> years.
            >
            > --
            > John (jkohnen@...)
            > Dissent is what rescues democracy from a quiet death behind
            > closed doors. (Lewis H. Lapham)
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.
            >
            > If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.
            >
            > The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
            > <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Edgar Boyd
            Thank you! That s great advice. The 40hp Honda is now available only with a 20 (long) shaft. I don t know yet if any other good 40hp motors with short shafts
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 15, 2011
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              Thank you! That's great advice.
               
              The 40hp Honda is now available only with a 20" (long) shaft. I don't know yet if any other good 40hp motors with short shafts are available. The same is true, incidentally, for the Evinrude E-Tech 40 which, although a 2 cy motor, has a very good reputation for efficiency. Both the Honda and the Evinrude are available with short shaft in their 30hp models, but no longer in the 40hp models.
               
              The really important question now is: is a long shaft motor on Ninigret totally out of the question. I haven't seen the Ninigret setup in the flesh so I can't tell this by myself.
               
              Bill


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            • tiernan roe
              Hi Bill, A long shaft isn t out of the question for a Ninigret. It will mean that you ll have to raise the height of the transom to set the ventilation plate
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 16, 2011
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                Hi Bill,
                A long shaft isn't out of the question for a Ninigret. It will mean
                that you'll have to raise the height of the transom to set the
                ventilation plate at the right level. This then pushes the power head
                higher which means the top of the engine cover is higher. This is
                probably a moot point as a 40 hp motor is going to be too to fit in
                the covered well as designed. The covered well is one of the reasons I
                was attracted to the Ninigret in the first place and it makes a huge
                difference in reducing noise from the engine. You literally can't hear
                if the engine is idling with the cover closed and at WOT there is no
                need for raised voices in the cockpit. I had to raise the height of the
                well on the Ninigret I built. I also increased the camber of the deck
                in the stern to minimise the adverse visual effect this could have.
                Hope this is helpful. I used a short shaft Honda 30 hp and it works
                great.
                Regards,
                Tiernan
                Tiernan Roe,
                Roeboats,
                Corravoley,
                Ballydehob,
                Co.Cork.
                t: +353 (0)28 38973
                m: +353 (0)86 158 6937
                www.roeboats.com
                Building, repairing and restoring beautiful boats for people who love
                boats.
              • John Kohnen
                Thanks, Tiernan. Advice from someone who s built one is the best advice. ... -- John (jkohnen@boat-links.com) When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 17, 2011
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                  Thanks, Tiernan. Advice from someone who's built one is the best advice.

                  On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 07:08:24 -0700, tiernan wrote:

                  > Hi Bill,
                  > A long shaft isn't out of the question for a Ninigret. It will mean
                  > that you'll have to raise the height of the transom to set the
                  > ventilation plate at the right level. This then pushes the power head
                  > higher which means the top of the engine cover is higher. This is
                  > probably a moot point as a 40 hp motor is going to be too to fit in
                  > the covered well as designed. The covered well is one of the reasons I
                  > was attracted to the Ninigret in the first place and it makes a huge
                  > difference in reducing noise from the engine. You literally can't hear
                  > if the engine is idling with the cover closed and at WOT there is no
                  > need for raised voices in the cockpit. I had to raise the height of the
                  > well on the Ninigret I built. I also increased the camber of the deck
                  > in the stern to minimise the adverse visual effect this could have.
                  > Hope this is helpful. I used a short shaft Honda 30 hp and it works
                  > great.

                  > www.roeboats.com

                  --
                  John (jkohnen@...)
                  When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know
                  have gone to a better world, I am moved to lead a different
                  life. (Mark Twain)
                • Edgar Boyd
                  Hello Tiernan. Thanks very much for your input. It means a lot to me when you say the 30hp (short shaft) motor works great on the Ninigret you built. The motor
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 18, 2011
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                    Hello Tiernan.

                    Thanks very much for your input. It means a lot to me when you say the 30hp (short shaft) motor works great on the Ninigret you built. The motor box certainly looks good and I like the increased camber you put in the stern sections. Lovely boat!

                    I know of no new 40hp motor that is being offered with a short shaft, and if I read you correctly you are saying the 20" transom height would make it impractical if not impossible to fully enclose the motor. Like you, I want the quiet of a fully enclosed motor.

                    So, the 30 hp motor is about 55 lbs lighter than the 40, the 30 would permit enclosing the motor completely, and it is less expensive. I can see no reason not to get the 30 instead of the 40, can you or anyone? The one question I have is if the power of the 30 is truly adequate? I am not concerned so much about speed as I am about the ability to go against river current (up to 6 kts) and the ability to carry 4-6 people efficiently.

                    What do you think?

                    Thanks again,

                    Bill
                  • jj_warde
                    Just spotted your posting from mid-September. I have a Ninigret built in 2000 by Tony Bries (Freedom Boats); pictures of our and his boat are on the Atkin
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 14, 2011
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                      Just spotted your posting from mid-September.

                      I have a Ninigret built in 2000 by Tony Bries (Freedom Boats); pictures of our and his boat are on the Atkin website. Both are powered by a 25hp 4-stroke Merc "Bigfoot" short-shaft (15"). That set-up allows transom mounting and low-profile covered enclosure like the original plans illustrate. That motor has worked very well in terms of fuel consumption, power and being very quiet. I did have the original carburator replaced with an "updated/improved" issue. The Bigfoot swings a larger prop than the standard Merc 25. Tony experimented with different props and settled with a 12"/10 ½"/3RH merc blackmax #48-427 40A11. In flat water it tops out at 18 mph (confirmed by GPS) and has torque for river current and steep chop.

                      I have done some research for a potential replacement. One that I've considered is a 30 hp 4-stoke 15" short shaft from Tohatsu (model #MFS30BEPTS). It weights 178lbs with electric start/tilt with remote steering.
                      You also may be interested to know that there are 40hp 15" short-shafts still being made but in 2-stoke. Both Tohatsu (# MD40B2EPTOS) and Nissan (# NSD40B2EPTO1) have such motors; both weigh about 210lbs.
                      Hope this may be of help you and other Ninigret owners.
                      Best regards,
                      JJ Ward





                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Boyd <boydmaine@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Tiernan.
                      >
                      > Thanks very much for your input. It means a lot to me when you say the 30hp (short shaft) motor works great on the Ninigret you built. The motor box certainly looks good and I like the increased camber you put in the stern sections. Lovely boat!
                      >
                      > I know of no new 40hp motor that is being offered with a short shaft, and if I read you correctly you are saying the 20" transom height would make it impractical if not impossible to fully enclose the motor. Like you, I want the quiet of a fully enclosed motor.
                      >
                      > So, the 30 hp motor is about 55 lbs lighter than the 40, the 30 would permit enclosing the motor completely, and it is less expensive. I can see no reason not to get the 30 instead of the 40, can you or anyone? The one question I have is if the power of the 30 is truly adequate? I am not concerned so much about speed as I am about the ability to go against river current (up to 6 kts) and the ability to carry 4-6 people efficiently.
                      >
                      > What do you think?
                      >
                      > Thanks again,
                      >
                      > Bill
                      >
                    • John Kohnen
                      Good info. Thanks, JJ. How does your Ninigret perform with a load? That s more important, in many cases, than top speed with a light load. Bill Childs, of
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 18, 2011
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                        Good info. Thanks, JJ. How does your Ninigret perform with a load? That's
                        more important, in many cases, than top speed with a light load. Bill
                        Childs, of Bartender Boats, had a 19' Bartender with a cuddy powered by a
                        25 hp. Honda. It performed quite well, and economically with just he and
                        his wife aboard, but bogged down when he took a couple more people along
                        (I recall one trip across Port Townsend with five or six people aboard
                        when we could only manage displacement speeds). Now Bill recommends a
                        35-40 hp. for 19' bartenders. You can cruise at low throttle settings most
                        of the time, but have extra oomph when you need to carry a load. There's a
                        lot to be said for running a motor at a quieter, less taxing throttle
                        setting most of the time.

                        Tohatsus are good motors. I've had three of their 4-strokes so far and
                        haven't had any trouble with them, except that the 3.5 must have had the
                        idle mixture set on a Friday or Monday at the factory. <g> I had to drill
                        out the plug that's supposed to keep you from fooling with the idle
                        mixture and set it myself. Tohatsu makes Nissan outboards, and the
                        4-stroke Mercuries. I've got a 3.5 hp. with the cheap Tohatsu decals; a 5
                        hp. with the more expensive Nissan decals; and a 9.9 Merc with the most
                        expensive decals of all. ;o) (though some Mercury models, including my
                        Bigfoot, have features the Tohatsu and Nissan branded motors don't...)

                        On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 18:41:48 -0700, JJ wrote:

                        > ...
                        > I have a Ninigret built in 2000 by Tony Bries (Freedom Boats); pictures
                        > of our and his boat are on the Atkin website. Both are powered by a
                        > 25hp 4-stroke Merc "Bigfoot" short-shaft (15"). That set-up allows
                        > transom mounting and low-profile covered enclosure like the original
                        > plans illustrate. That motor has worked very well in terms of fuel
                        > consumption, power and being very quiet.
                        > ...
                        > In flat water it tops out at 18 mph (confirmed by GPS) and has torque
                        > for river current and steep chop.
                        >
                        > I have done some research for a potential replacement. One that I've
                        > considered is a 30 hp 4-stoke 15" short shaft from Tohatsu (model
                        > #MFS30BEPTS). It weights 178lbs with electric start/tilt with remote
                        > steering.
                        > You also may be interested to know that there are 40hp 15" short-shafts
                        > still being made but in 2-stoke. Both Tohatsu (# MD40B2EPTOS) and
                        > Nissan (# NSD40B2EPTO1) have such motors; both weigh about 210lbs.
                        > ...


                        --
                        John (jkohnen@...)
                        There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music
                        and cats. (Albert Schweitzer)
                      • Edgar Boyd
                        Thanks to JJ and John for your input. I ve decided to go with a 40hp Honda for my Ninigret build. Wanting to have power in reserve is certainly one reason, and
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 18, 2011
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                          Thanks to JJ and John for your input.

                          I've decided to go with a 40hp Honda for my Ninigret build. Wanting to have power in reserve is certainly one reason, and is more important than speed although that can be nice, too.

                          Also, dealers are making the point that 20" shaft motors will last longer that 15" shafts because they don't get wet or doused as often, especially key in salt water..

                          The negatives, of course, are the added weight and the cost, but overall I'm happy with the decision. 40hp is no longer considered above the norm for Ninigret.

                          Bill






                          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Good info. Thanks, JJ. How does your Ninigret perform with a load? That's
                          > more important, in many cases, than top speed with a light load. Bill
                          > Childs, of Bartender Boats, had a 19' Bartender with a cuddy powered by a
                          > 25 hp. Honda. It performed quite well, and economically with just he and
                          > his wife aboard, but bogged down when he took a couple more people along
                          > (I recall one trip across Port Townsend with five or six people aboard
                          > when we could only manage displacement speeds). Now Bill recommends a
                          > 35-40 hp. for 19' bartenders. You can cruise at low throttle settings most
                          > of the time, but have extra oomph when you need to carry a load. There's a
                          > lot to be said for running a motor at a quieter, less taxing throttle
                          > setting most of the time.
                          >
                          > Tohatsus are good motors. I've had three of their 4-strokes so far and
                          > haven't had any trouble with them, except that the 3.5 must have had the
                          > idle mixture set on a Friday or Monday at the factory. <g> I had to drill
                          > out the plug that's supposed to keep you from fooling with the idle
                          > mixture and set it myself. Tohatsu makes Nissan outboards, and the
                          > 4-stroke Mercuries. I've got a 3.5 hp. with the cheap Tohatsu decals; a 5
                          > hp. with the more expensive Nissan decals; and a 9.9 Merc with the most
                          > expensive decals of all. ;o) (though some Mercury models, including my
                          > Bigfoot, have features the Tohatsu and Nissan branded motors don't...)
                          >
                          > On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 18:41:48 -0700, JJ wrote:
                          >
                          > > ...
                          > > I have a Ninigret built in 2000 by Tony Bries (Freedom Boats); pictures
                          > > of our and his boat are on the Atkin website. Both are powered by a
                          > > 25hp 4-stroke Merc "Bigfoot" short-shaft (15"). That set-up allows
                          > > transom mounting and low-profile covered enclosure like the original
                          > > plans illustrate. That motor has worked very well in terms of fuel
                          > > consumption, power and being very quiet.
                          > > ...
                          > > In flat water it tops out at 18 mph (confirmed by GPS) and has torque
                          > > for river current and steep chop.
                          > >
                          > > I have done some research for a potential replacement. One that I've
                          > > considered is a 30 hp 4-stoke 15" short shaft from Tohatsu (model
                          > > #MFS30BEPTS). It weights 178lbs with electric start/tilt with remote
                          > > steering.
                          > > You also may be interested to know that there are 40hp 15" short-shafts
                          > > still being made but in 2-stoke. Both Tohatsu (# MD40B2EPTOS) and
                          > > Nissan (# NSD40B2EPTO1) have such motors; both weigh about 210lbs.
                          > > ...
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > John (jkohnen@...)
                          > There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music
                          > and cats. (Albert Schweitzer)
                          >
                        • jj_warde
                          Hi Bill: I tried a Ninigret with 50hp; that was overkill and the motor s tall dog house did not fit clean looks that J. Atkin originally drew. With 4+ aboard
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 20, 2011
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                            Hi Bill:

                            I tried a Ninigret with 50hp; that was overkill and the motor's tall dog house did not fit clean looks that J. Atkin originally drew. With 4+ aboard the Bigfoot Merc 25 4-stroke does fine. I've found that balancing the load is key with its semi-displacement hull design. With 2 in the cuddy, 2 in fixed seats and 2 in folding canvas chairs in the cockpit it doesn't "bog-down." That motor has more "beef" that a std 25. You will understand if you ever see its crankshaft. Good luck with you new machine.

                            JJ



                            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Edgar Boyd" <boydmaine@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Thanks to JJ and John for your input.
                            >
                            > I've decided to go with a 40hp Honda for my Ninigret build. Wanting to have power in reserve is certainly one reason, and is more important than speed although that can be nice, too.
                            >
                            > Also, dealers are making the point that 20" shaft motors will last longer that 15" shafts because they don't get wet or doused as often, especially key in salt water..
                            >
                            > The negatives, of course, are the added weight and the cost, but overall I'm happy with the decision. 40hp is no longer considered above the norm for Ninigret.
                            >
                            > Bill
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Good info. Thanks, JJ. How does your Ninigret perform with a load? That's
                            > > more important, in many cases, than top speed with a light load. Bill
                            > > Childs, of Bartender Boats, had a 19' Bartender with a cuddy powered by a
                            > > 25 hp. Honda. It performed quite well, and economically with just he and
                            > > his wife aboard, but bogged down when he took a couple more people along
                            > > (I recall one trip across Port Townsend with five or six people aboard
                            > > when we could only manage displacement speeds). Now Bill recommends a
                            > > 35-40 hp. for 19' bartenders. You can cruise at low throttle settings most
                            > > of the time, but have extra oomph when you need to carry a load. There's a
                            > > lot to be said for running a motor at a quieter, less taxing throttle
                            > > setting most of the time.
                            > >
                            > > Tohatsus are good motors. I've had three of their 4-strokes so far and
                            > > haven't had any trouble with them, except that the 3.5 must have had the
                            > > idle mixture set on a Friday or Monday at the factory. <g> I had to drill
                            > > out the plug that's supposed to keep you from fooling with the idle
                            > > mixture and set it myself. Tohatsu makes Nissan outboards, and the
                            > > 4-stroke Mercuries. I've got a 3.5 hp. with the cheap Tohatsu decals; a 5
                            > > hp. with the more expensive Nissan decals; and a 9.9 Merc with the most
                            > > expensive decals of all. ;o) (though some Mercury models, including my
                            > > Bigfoot, have features the Tohatsu and Nissan branded motors don't...)
                            > >
                            > > On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 18:41:48 -0700, JJ wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > ...
                            > > > I have a Ninigret built in 2000 by Tony Bries (Freedom Boats); pictures
                            > > > of our and his boat are on the Atkin website. Both are powered by a
                            > > > 25hp 4-stroke Merc "Bigfoot" short-shaft (15"). That set-up allows
                            > > > transom mounting and low-profile covered enclosure like the original
                            > > > plans illustrate. That motor has worked very well in terms of fuel
                            > > > consumption, power and being very quiet.
                            > > > ...
                            > > > In flat water it tops out at 18 mph (confirmed by GPS) and has torque
                            > > > for river current and steep chop.
                            > > >
                            > > > I have done some research for a potential replacement. One that I've
                            > > > considered is a 30 hp 4-stoke 15" short shaft from Tohatsu (model
                            > > > #MFS30BEPTS). It weights 178lbs with electric start/tilt with remote
                            > > > steering.
                            > > > You also may be interested to know that there are 40hp 15" short-shafts
                            > > > still being made but in 2-stoke. Both Tohatsu (# MD40B2EPTOS) and
                            > > > Nissan (# NSD40B2EPTO1) have such motors; both weigh about 210lbs.
                            > > > ...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --
                            > > John (jkohnen@)
                            > > There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music
                            > > and cats. (Albert Schweitzer)
                            > >
                            >
                          • jj_warde
                            The Ninigret does very well with the Bigfoot 25 and 4-6 aboard. I ve found that the key element, with its semi-displacement hull design, is balancing the load
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 21, 2011
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                              The Ninigret does very well with the Bigfoot 25 and 4-6 aboard. I've found that the key element, with its semi-displacement hull design, is balancing the load and keeping weight out of the stern. That's why a reasonably light motor works so well. I tried a Merc 50 in a Ninigret and that was overkill, stern-heavy, and the motor's "dog house" unsightly.
                              I put most gear and 2 folks (or more) in the cuddy; becasue it's open to the cockpit they don't feel isolated. I also carry two fold-up chairs to use benind the stearing/co-pilot fixed seats.
                              A point to note is that the Merc Bigfoot is beefier than the standard 25hp; it was intented to push pontoon boats with its biggger prop. The crankshaft is a brute.
                              Good luck with your new motor. I think that ninigret's hull weight and design accomodates a relatively wide range of power units.

                              JJ


                              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Good info. Thanks, JJ. How does your Ninigret perform with a load? That's
                              > more important, in many cases, than top speed with a light load. Bill
                              > Childs, of Bartender Boats, had a 19' Bartender with a cuddy powered by a
                              > 25 hp. Honda. It performed quite well, and economically with just he and
                              > his wife aboard, but bogged down when he took a couple more people along
                              > (I recall one trip across Port Townsend with five or six people aboard
                              > when we could only manage displacement speeds). Now Bill recommends a
                              > 35-40 hp. for 19' bartenders. You can cruise at low throttle settings most
                              > of the time, but have extra oomph when you need to carry a load. There's a
                              > lot to be said for running a motor at a quieter, less taxing throttle
                              > setting most of the time.
                              >
                              > Tohatsus are good motors. I've had three of their 4-strokes so far and
                              > haven't had any trouble with them, except that the 3.5 must have had the
                              > idle mixture set on a Friday or Monday at the factory. <g> I had to drill
                              > out the plug that's supposed to keep you from fooling with the idle
                              > mixture and set it myself. Tohatsu makes Nissan outboards, and the
                              > 4-stroke Mercuries. I've got a 3.5 hp. with the cheap Tohatsu decals; a 5
                              > hp. with the more expensive Nissan decals; and a 9.9 Merc with the most
                              > expensive decals of all. ;o) (though some Mercury models, including my
                              > Bigfoot, have features the Tohatsu and Nissan branded motors don't...)
                              >
                              > On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 18:41:48 -0700, JJ wrote:
                              >
                              > > ...
                              > > I have a Ninigret built in 2000 by Tony Bries (Freedom Boats); pictures
                              > > of our and his boat are on the Atkin website. Both are powered by a
                              > > 25hp 4-stroke Merc "Bigfoot" short-shaft (15"). That set-up allows
                              > > transom mounting and low-profile covered enclosure like the original
                              > > plans illustrate. That motor has worked very well in terms of fuel
                              > > consumption, power and being very quiet.
                              > > ...
                              > > In flat water it tops out at 18 mph (confirmed by GPS) and has torque
                              > > for river current and steep chop.
                              > >
                              > > I have done some research for a potential replacement. One that I've
                              > > considered is a 30 hp 4-stoke 15" short shaft from Tohatsu (model
                              > > #MFS30BEPTS). It weights 178lbs with electric start/tilt with remote
                              > > steering.
                              > > You also may be interested to know that there are 40hp 15" short-shafts
                              > > still being made but in 2-stoke. Both Tohatsu (# MD40B2EPTOS) and
                              > > Nissan (# NSD40B2EPTO1) have such motors; both weigh about 210lbs.
                              > > ...
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > John (jkohnen@...)
                              > There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music
                              > and cats. (Albert Schweitzer)
                              >
                            • Edgar Boyd
                              Thanks, JJ, Very useful. Do you happen to know/have you ever heard how Ninigret does with a 30hp Honda?? (55 pounds lighter than the Honda 40) Bill
                              Message 14 of 18 , Oct 22, 2011
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                                Thanks, JJ,

                                Very useful. Do you happen to know/have you ever heard how Ninigret does with a 30hp Honda?? (55 pounds lighter than the Honda 40)

                                Bill


                                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "jj_warde" <jj_warde@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > The Ninigret does very well with the Bigfoot 25 and 4-6 aboard. I've found that the key element, with its semi-displacement hull design, is balancing the load and keeping weight out of the stern. That's why a reasonably light motor works so well. I tried a Merc 50 in a Ninigret and that was overkill, stern-heavy, and the motor's "dog house" unsightly.
                                > I put most gear and 2 folks (or more) in the cuddy; becasue it's open to the cockpit they don't feel isolated. I also carry two fold-up chairs to use benind the stearing/co-pilot fixed seats.
                                > A point to note is that the Merc Bigfoot is beefier than the standard 25hp; it was intented to push pontoon boats with its biggger prop. The crankshaft is a brute.
                                > Good luck with your new motor. I think that ninigret's hull weight and design accomodates a relatively wide range of power units.
                                >
                                > JJ
                                >
                                >
                              • John Kohnen
                                Thanks a lot, JJ! That s really good info, based on actual experience. I m pleased that Ninigret goes along fine with the 25 hp. Merc. I don t recall, is that
                                Message 15 of 18 , Nov 5, 2011
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                                  Thanks a lot, JJ! That's really good info, based on actual experience. I'm
                                  pleased that Ninigret goes along fine with the 25 hp. Merc. I don't
                                  recall, is that a 4-stroke Merc? There are advantages to having extra
                                  power for a load, but it always comes with extra weight -- extra weight
                                  just where you don't want it, even when the engine is in a well. That's
                                  especially a concern with today's heavy, bulky motors. I'll again
                                  recommend the Bartender group for it's discussions about putting modern
                                  outboards into a boat designed when motors were smaller and lighter:

                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bartenderboat/

                                  On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:13:28 -0700, JJ wrote:

                                  >
                                  > The Ninigret does very well with the Bigfoot 25 and 4-6 aboard. I've
                                  > found that the key element, with its semi-displacement hull design, is
                                  > balancing the load and keeping weight out of the stern. That's why a
                                  > reasonably light motor works so well. I tried a Merc 50 in a Ninigret
                                  > and that was overkill, stern-heavy, and the motor's "dog house"
                                  > unsightly.
                                  > I put most gear and 2 folks (or more) in the cuddy; becasue it's open to
                                  > the cockpit they don't feel isolated. I also carry two fold-up chairs to
                                  > use benind the stearing/co-pilot fixed seats.
                                  > A point to note is that the Merc Bigfoot is beefier than the standard
                                  > 25hp; it was intented to push pontoon boats with its biggger prop. The
                                  > crankshaft is a brute.
                                  > Good luck with your new motor. I think that ninigret's hull weight and
                                  > design accomodates a relatively wide range of power units.

                                  --
                                  John (jkohnen@...)
                                  The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene
                                  of older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the
                                  blood. (Logan Pearsall Smith)
                                • jj_warde
                                  Hi John: I use a 25 hp Merc Bigfoot which is a 4-stroke. It is a 2000 so it s got a carb. Merc still makes a 15 short-shaft fuel-injected 4-stokes in 30 &
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Nov 11, 2011
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                                    Hi John:

                                    I use a 25 hp Merc Bigfoot which is a 4-stroke. It is a 2000 so it's got a carb. Merc still makes a 15" short-shaft fuel-injected 4-stokes in 30 & 40hp with remote steering. However the Bigfoot 40 hp is a 20 shaft.
                                    JJ



                                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thanks a lot, JJ! That's really good info, based on actual experience. I'm
                                    > pleased that Ninigret goes along fine with the 25 hp. Merc. I don't
                                    > recall, is that a 4-stroke Merc? There are advantages to having extra
                                    > power for a load, but it always comes with extra weight -- extra weight
                                    > just where you don't want it, even when the engine is in a well. That's
                                    > especially a concern with today's heavy, bulky motors. I'll again
                                    > recommend the Bartender group for it's discussions about putting modern
                                    > outboards into a boat designed when motors were smaller and lighter:
                                    >
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bartenderboat/
                                    >
                                    > On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:13:28 -0700, JJ wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > > The Ninigret does very well with the Bigfoot 25 and 4-6 aboard. I've
                                    > > found that the key element, with its semi-displacement hull design, is
                                    > > balancing the load and keeping weight out of the stern. That's why a
                                    > > reasonably light motor works so well. I tried a Merc 50 in a Ninigret
                                    > > and that was overkill, stern-heavy, and the motor's "dog house"
                                    > > unsightly.
                                    > > I put most gear and 2 folks (or more) in the cuddy; becasue it's open to
                                    > > the cockpit they don't feel isolated. I also carry two fold-up chairs to
                                    > > use benind the stearing/co-pilot fixed seats.
                                    > > A point to note is that the Merc Bigfoot is beefier than the standard
                                    > > 25hp; it was intented to push pontoon boats with its biggger prop. The
                                    > > crankshaft is a brute.
                                    > > Good luck with your new motor. I think that ninigret's hull weight and
                                    > > design accomodates a relatively wide range of power units.
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > John (jkohnen@...)
                                    > The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene
                                    > of older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the
                                    > blood. (Logan Pearsall Smith)
                                    >
                                  • Edgar Boyd
                                    Thanks again for all the comments relating to powering Ninigret. Largely because of this input I ve changed my mind and decided to go with a 30hp short shaft
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Nov 13, 2011
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                                      Thanks again for all the comments relating to powering Ninigret. Largely because of this input I've changed my mind and decided to go with a 30hp short shaft Honda 4 stroke. The Honda 30 weighs the same as the 25.

                                      Bill B


                                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "jj_warde" <jj_warde@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi John:
                                      >
                                      > I use a 25 hp Merc Bigfoot which is a 4-stroke. It is a 2000 so it's got a carb. Merc still makes a 15" short-shaft fuel-injected 4-stokes in 30 & 40hp with remote steering. However the Bigfoot 40 hp is a 20 shaft.
                                      > JJ
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks a lot, JJ! That's really good info, based on actual experience. I'm
                                      > > pleased that Ninigret goes along fine with the 25 hp. Merc. I don't
                                      > > recall, is that a 4-stroke Merc? There are advantages to having extra
                                      > > power for a load, but it always comes with extra weight -- extra weight
                                      > > just where you don't want it, even when the engine is in a well. That's
                                      > > especially a concern with today's heavy, bulky motors. I'll again
                                      > > recommend the Bartender group for it's discussions about putting modern
                                      > > outboards into a boat designed when motors were smaller and lighter:
                                      > >
                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bartenderboat/
                                      > >
                                      > > On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:13:28 -0700, JJ wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The Ninigret does very well with the Bigfoot 25 and 4-6 aboard. I've
                                      > > > found that the key element, with its semi-displacement hull design, is
                                      > > > balancing the load and keeping weight out of the stern. That's why a
                                      > > > reasonably light motor works so well. I tried a Merc 50 in a Ninigret
                                      > > > and that was overkill, stern-heavy, and the motor's "dog house"
                                      > > > unsightly.
                                      > > > I put most gear and 2 folks (or more) in the cuddy; becasue it's open to
                                      > > > the cockpit they don't feel isolated. I also carry two fold-up chairs to
                                      > > > use benind the stearing/co-pilot fixed seats.
                                      > > > A point to note is that the Merc Bigfoot is beefier than the standard
                                      > > > 25hp; it was intented to push pontoon boats with its biggger prop. The
                                      > > > crankshaft is a brute.
                                      > > > Good luck with your new motor. I think that ninigret's hull weight and
                                      > > > design accomodates a relatively wide range of power units.
                                      > >
                                      > > --
                                      > > John (jkohnen@)
                                      > > The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene
                                      > > of older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the
                                      > > blood. (Logan Pearsall Smith)
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • manyboat
                                      I m not usually a fan of Honda s but for Ninigret I d say it s ideal in that ity s 30hp. Also it s a 3 cylinder engine instead of a twin. Twin cyl 2 strokes
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Nov 24, 2011
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                                        I'm not usually a fan of Honda's but for Ninigret I'd say it's ideal in that ity's 30hp. Also it's a 3 cylinder engine instead of a twin. Twin cyl 2 strokes are quite smooth but 4 stroke twins are'nt as smooth. Think of a oldTriumph motorcycle. But a bigger advantage of the honda 30 is that it's the biggest OB engine available with carbs. I have a 40 and a 60hp OB with fuel injection and it scares me a bit.....they are so heavy and complicated. So if I had a Ninigret I'd be looking at the Honda 30.

                                        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Edgar Boyd" <boydmaine@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Thanks again for all the comments relating to powering Ninigret. Largely because of this input I've changed my mind and decided to go with a 30hp short shaft Honda 4 stroke. The Honda 30 weighs the same as the 25.
                                        >
                                        > Bill B
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "jj_warde" <jj_warde@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Hi John:
                                        > >
                                        > > I use a 25 hp Merc Bigfoot which is a 4-stroke. It is a 2000 so it's got a carb. Merc still makes a 15" short-shaft fuel-injected 4-stokes in 30 & 40hp with remote steering. However the Bigfoot 40 hp is a 20 shaft.
                                        > > JJ
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Thanks a lot, JJ! That's really good info, based on actual experience. I'm
                                        > > > pleased that Ninigret goes along fine with the 25 hp. Merc. I don't
                                        > > > recall, is that a 4-stroke Merc? There are advantages to having extra
                                        > > > power for a load, but it always comes with extra weight -- extra weight
                                        > > > just where you don't want it, even when the engine is in a well. That's
                                        > > > especially a concern with today's heavy, bulky motors. I'll again
                                        > > > recommend the Bartender group for it's discussions about putting modern
                                        > > > outboards into a boat designed when motors were smaller and lighter:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bartenderboat/
                                        > > >
                                        > > > On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:13:28 -0700, JJ wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > The Ninigret does very well with the Bigfoot 25 and 4-6 aboard. I've
                                        > > > > found that the key element, with its semi-displacement hull design, is
                                        > > > > balancing the load and keeping weight out of the stern. That's why a
                                        > > > > reasonably light motor works so well. I tried a Merc 50 in a Ninigret
                                        > > > > and that was overkill, stern-heavy, and the motor's "dog house"
                                        > > > > unsightly.
                                        > > > > I put most gear and 2 folks (or more) in the cuddy; becasue it's open to
                                        > > > > the cockpit they don't feel isolated. I also carry two fold-up chairs to
                                        > > > > use benind the stearing/co-pilot fixed seats.
                                        > > > > A point to note is that the Merc Bigfoot is beefier than the standard
                                        > > > > 25hp; it was intented to push pontoon boats with its biggger prop. The
                                        > > > > crankshaft is a brute.
                                        > > > > Good luck with your new motor. I think that ninigret's hull weight and
                                        > > > > design accomodates a relatively wide range of power units.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --
                                        > > > John (jkohnen@)
                                        > > > The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene
                                        > > > of older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the
                                        > > > blood. (Logan Pearsall Smith)
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
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