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  • chriskottaridis
    Hey, thanks for the Atkin boat plan site as well as this forum. I hope it works out as you plan. Since finding the atkinboatplans site I ve been spending a lot
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 24, 2004
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      Hey, thanks for the Atkin boat plan site as well as this forum. I hope
      it works out as you plan. Since finding the atkinboatplans site I've
      been spending a lot of time dreaming about the possibilities. I am
      looking at starting a project for 2005, I'm full up for 2004, to see
      if I could build something larger than a canoe!

      My requirements are:

      A. The thing is going to LIVE on a trailer. Which means it'll be
      parked on a lot somewhere and towed to a reservoir and sailed for a
      day or a weekend and then towed back to a lot for the weekdays.
      the winters are a bit long here in Colorado and it'll not see the
      water when it gets cold, so it'll be sitting on a trailer then as
      well.

      B. My garage is 24' long and the doorway is 7' 10" wide. So anything
      I'd build needs to probably be less than 22' length and I'd like to
      keep it under 7'6" beam as well, just to be sure I can get it out of
      the garage once it's built. If I really have to, I can remove some
      molding and get 3 more inches in the garage doorway, but that's
      pushing it.

      So, my dreams have been going to three of the Atkin boats:

      1. Teach - 15' V-bottom day sailor. I like double-enders and this
      seems like a nice daysailor that wouldn't require me to have to face
      the challenge of fitting out a cabin. I could get it built quicker. My
      question about Teach is wether I could cold-mold it so that it might
      live on the trailer better? Also, I think it might look nicer with a
      canoe-yawl rig rather then the marconi sloop. But, I don't really know
      enough about boat design to go messing with the sail plan myself.

      2. Economy Jane - 21' V-bottom cruiser. Like I said I like
      double-enders. When I think I might be up to the challenge of fitting
      out a cabin I ponder Economy Jane. Again the issue is if it could live
      on a trailer. So, do you think this could be cold-molded and be able
      to live on a trailer? Here again, I'd like to see a canoe-yawl rig on
      her, but the gaff sloop looks pretty nice as well.

      3. Maid of Endor - 20' 4" cruiser. I found this one years ago in 40
      Wooden Boats. I am assuming the John Atkin listed there is the same
      one here. It's listed in 40 Wooden Boats as "trailerable" and
      cold-molded as a possible option. However, it's unclear to me wether
      that listing of "trailerable" means it can be put on a trailer if need
      be, versus spending most of it's time on a trailer, as any boat I own
      would have to do. Here again, I'd like to cold-mold it in hopes that
      it would hold up to life on a trailer better. I wouldn't change it's
      sail plan though. I really like cutter rigs. It's not a double-ender,
      but the wineglass transom looks very pretty and seems to go better
      with the cutter rig to my eye. However, with a displacement of 5200
      pounds it seems pretty heavy to be lugging around on a trailer,
      especially with all the mountains here in Colorado. So, maybe I
      shouldn't be considering it. At 7' 8" beam it'd push the limits of my
      garage, but I could probably make it work if I really decided too. The
      lines sure look pretty! I'd love to see a picture of this boat if you
      happen to have a pointer.

      I sent away for the Atkin catalog, if nothing else I can always dream!

      Again thanks for all the work putting the web site and the forum
      together. It is appreciated. I hope it works out for you!

      Thanks
      Chris Kottaridis (chrisk@...)
    • jkohnen@boat-links.com
      I think any keel boat much bigger than Teach would be a real PITA to trailer, and that d deter you from using it often. A friend of mine was thinking about
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 25, 2004
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        I think any keel boat much bigger than Teach would be a real PITA to
        trailer, and that'd deter you from using it often. A friend of mine was
        thinking about Teach, but got scared off by the keel. "Two wet feet" of
        draft, is what he called it (hey Pat, look at Active III, only 22" draft!).
        I don't think Teach would be too bad, the deepest draft is right aft, and
        the keel is straight and slopes up from there.

        Take a look at Gretchen, she's an easy shape to build cold-molded, strip-
        planked or glued plywood lapstrake (my choice), has lots of room, looks
        salty enough for anybody, and doesn't have a deep keel (but also isn't
        double-ended):

        http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Gretchen.html

        The hollow sections in the run of Teach and Economy Jane would be difficult
        to plank using cold-molding. Strip planking would be a better choice, and is
        probably somewhat less tedious than cold-molding. A boatbuilder friend of
        mine who's something of an expert at getting plywood to do what he wants it
        to do says that he thinks plywood would go around the sides of Teach with no
        problem -- and the bottom, except for that hollow. A person could just
        <shudder> ignore the hollow and run the bottom straight into the deadwood.
        One of the Atkins shows just this alternative in the article about a big V-
        bottom cruiser. A strip-planked bottom and plywood topsides would be a good
        choice for a boat that lives on a trailer.

        I'm not familiar with Maid of Endor, and it's not in the current Atkin
        catalog (though I'm sure Pat would sell you the plans if you asked nicely).

        On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 07:03:45 -0000, Chris K wrote:
        > ...
        > My requirements are:
        >
        > A. The thing is going to LIVE on a trailer. Which means it'll be
        > parked on a lot somewhere and towed to a reservoir and sailed for a
        > day or a weekend and then towed back to a lot for the weekdays.
        > the winters are a bit long here in Colorado and it'll not see the
        > water when it gets cold, so it'll be sitting on a trailer then as
        > well.
        > ...
        > So, my dreams have been going to three of the Atkin boats:
        >
        > 1. Teach - 15' V-bottom day sailor. I like double-enders and this
        > seems like a nice daysailor that wouldn't require me to have to face
        > the challenge of fitting out a cabin. I could get it built quicker. My
        > question about Teach is wether I could cold-mold it so that it might
        > live on the trailer better? Also, I think it might look nicer with a
        > canoe-yawl rig rather then the marconi sloop. But, I don't really know
        > enough about boat design to go messing with the sail plan myself.
        >
        > 2. Economy Jane - 21' V-bottom cruiser. Like I said I like
        > double-enders. When I think I might be up to the challenge of fitting
        > out a cabin I ponder Economy Jane. Again the issue is if it could live
        > on a trailer. So, do you think this could be cold-molded and be able
        > to live on a trailer? Here again, I'd like to see a canoe-yawl rig on
        > her, but the gaff sloop looks pretty nice as well.
        >
        > 3. Maid of Endor - 20' 4" cruiser. I found this one years ago in 40
        > Wooden Boats. I am assuming the John Atkin listed there is the same
        > one here. It's listed in 40 Wooden Boats as "trailerable" and
        > cold-molded as a possible option. However, it's unclear to me wether
        > that listing of "trailerable" means it can be put on a trailer if need
        > be, versus spending most of it's time on a trailer, as any boat I own
        > would have to do. Here again, I'd like to cold-mold it in hopes that
        > it would hold up to life on a trailer better. I wouldn't change it's
        > sail plan though. I really like cutter rigs. It's not a double-ender,
        > but the wineglass transom looks very pretty and seems to go better
        > with the cutter rig to my eye. However, with a displacement of 5200
        > pounds it seems pretty heavy to be lugging around on a trailer,
        > especially with all the mountains here in Colorado. So, maybe I
        > shouldn't be considering it. At 7' 8" beam it'd push the limits of my
        > garage, but I could probably make it work if I really decided too. The
        > lines sure look pretty! I'd love to see a picture of this boat if you
        > happen to have a pointer.
        >
        > I sent away for the Atkin catalog, if nothing else I can always dream!
        >
        > Again thanks for all the work putting the web site and the forum
        > together. It is appreciated. I hope it works out for you!

        --
        John <jkohnen@...>
        http://www.boat-links.com/
        The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene of
        older people, and greatly assists the circulation of the blood.
        <Logan Pearsall Smith>
      • Wayne
        ... strip- ... looks ... isn t ... John Kohnen, I was searching the archives for the Onions and Gretchen and ran across the above. Do you have any more
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 12, 2005
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          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:

          > Take a look at Gretchen, she's an easy shape to build cold-molded,
          strip-
          > planked or glued plywood lapstrake (my choice), has lots of room,
          looks
          > salty enough for anybody, and doesn't have a deep keel (but also
          isn't
          > double-ended):
          >
          > http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Gretchen.html

          John Kohnen,

          I was searching the archives for the Onions and Gretchen and ran
          across the above. Do you have any more information beyond what is
          mentioned on the Atkin web site? Specifially, how much internal
          ballast? Helga uses 750 pounds. Any idea how much ballast Gretchen
          carries? I am intrigued by your assesment that Gretchen could be
          planked plywood lapstrake fashion. That's good news.

          I am considering Wild Onion's hull with Red Onion's gaff sloop rig,
          Gretchen, both boats being 18' LOA and will fit my building/storage
          space. I could squeeze Helga in my garage, maybe. I'm wondering what
          I get with the extra 2'? Any thoughts on this collection of wee boats?

          Thanks!

          Wayne
          In the Swamp.
        • mikegt4
          Wayne Gretchen is in Ideal series Vol.33. She has 600# of internal ballast placed under the bunks and floorboards. Gretchen certainly has a beautiful set of
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 13, 2005
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            Wayne
            Gretchen is in Ideal series Vol.33. She has 600# of internal ballast
            placed under the bunks and floorboards. Gretchen certainly has a
            beautiful set of lines especialy for an 18 ft. cabin boat.
            In addition to Helga and the Onion/Oats series, check out the Nanny
            Gay and the slightly larger Sharpeshooter, Dolly Varden, Economy Jane
            all of which are in Vol 33.
          • Wayne
            ... ballast ... Jane ... Thank you, Mike. My guesstimate of ballast wasn t far off based on Helga s 750 pounds. I will attempt to get the book through inter-
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 13, 2005
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              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "mikegt4" <dawson-md@m...> wrote:
              >
              > Wayne
              > Gretchen is in Ideal series Vol.33. She has 600# of internal
              ballast
              > placed under the bunks and floorboards. Gretchen certainly has a
              > beautiful set of lines especialy for an 18 ft. cabin boat.
              > In addition to Helga and the Onion/Oats series, check out the Nanny
              > Gay and the slightly larger Sharpeshooter, Dolly Varden, Economy
              Jane
              > all of which are in Vol 33.

              Thank you, Mike. My guesstimate of ballast wasn't far off based on
              Helga's 750 pounds. I will attempt to get the book through inter-
              library loan.

              I do find it interesting that the narrow round bottomed Gretchen
              carries twice as much ballast as the wider skipjack hull. Oh, extra
              beam. I guess I answered my own question.

              I will look at the others one more time. However, 18' LOA is really
              at the limit of my available space. I must keep my onefootitis in
              check, don't you know.

              Wayne
              In the Swamp.
            • jkohnen@boat-links.com
              Gretchen was stretched two feet to give room for an inboard auxiliary. There s extra storage on each side of the engine too, which is always nice in a small
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 17, 2005
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                Gretchen was stretched two feet to give room for an inboard auxiliary.
                There's extra storage on each side of the engine too, which is always nice
                in a small boat. Notice that Helga and Gretchen share the same 6' beam.
                Helga and Gretchen are designed for lapstrake construction, so it would be
                little trouble to use plywood planks and glue those laps and make the boats
                more fit for trailering. If you wanted to eliminate some of the framing, as
                in modern glued lapstrake designs, I'd recommend getting some advice from a
                designer familiar with that construction.

                Red Onion's gaff rig could go on Wild Onion with little trouble.

                On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 04:36:39 -0000, Wayne wrote:
                >
                > I was searching the archives for the Onions and Gretchen and ran
                > across the above. Do you have any more information beyond what is
                > mentioned on the Atkin web site? Specifially, how much internal
                > ballast? Helga uses 750 pounds. Any idea how much ballast Gretchen
                > carries? I am intrigued by your assesment that Gretchen could be
                > planked plywood lapstrake fashion. That's good news.
                >
                > I am considering Wild Onion's hull with Red Onion's gaff sloop rig,
                > Gretchen, both boats being 18' LOA and will fit my building/storage
                > space. I could squeeze Helga in my garage, maybe. I'm wondering what
                > I get with the extra 2'? Any thoughts on this collection of wee boats?

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                http://www.boat-links.com/
                The way to fight a woman is with your hat. Grab it and run.
                <John Barrymore>
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