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Re: [AtkinBoats] Displacement tunnel-stern seabright skiff

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  • jkohnen@boat-links.com
    I don t know if either Atkin designed a tunnel-stern Seabright skiff for lower speeds. Mrs. Atkin lurks here, and she may know if there is one, and if there
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 1, 2004
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      I don't know if either Atkin designed a tunnel-stern Seabright skiff for
      lower speeds. Mrs. Atkin lurks here, and she may know if there is one, and
      if there are any speed/power curves in existence.

      The tunnel-stern Seabright skiffs are easily driven hulls. Even though the
      ones in the catalog won't be as efficient running at low speeds as a similar
      design optimized for that use I don't think the difference will be enough to
      worry about, unless maybe you're comtemplating electric power and need to
      squeeze the most out of every electron. What sort of power are you
      contemplating?

      On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:14:39 -0000, Ron wrote:
      > Is there an example of an Atkin powerboat of the Rescue Minor style
      > but designed for displacement speeds? I am interested in a slightly
      > smaller version of River Belle that can be executed in plywood but
      > that is designed for efficiency at a speed/length ratio of about
      > 1.34. Robb White has convinced me that the Rescue Minor is
      > surprisingly efficient, so that's a good starting point. The smallest
      > S/L of 1.75 that I can find is Sallie Hyde, but that design doesn't
      > have the tunnel stern. Rescue Minor has S/L of 3.49, and even the
      > larger River Belle is at S/L of 2.23.
      >
      > Are there any available curves of power required as a function of
      > speed for a tunnel-stern seabright skiff? That might help understand
      > the question of an efficient S/L for this type of hull.

      --
      John <jkohnen@...>
      http://www.boat-links.com/
      One boat just leads to another.
      <John Kohnen>
    • ronschwiesow
      ... This may sound crazy, but I plan a single-cylinder Diesel of 6.6 to perhaps 8 hp cruising at about 3/4 max power. The background is that we have done 3
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 2, 2004
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        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
        > squeeze the most out of every electron. What sort of power are you
        > contemplating?

        This may sound crazy, but I plan a single-cylinder Diesel of 6.6 to
        perhaps 8 hp cruising at about 3/4 max power. The background is that
        we have done 3 month-long cruises (plus some shorter trips) in our
        Balboa 8.2 sailboat and had a wonderful time in the Pacific
        Northwest, the upper 2/3 of the Chesapeake, and Pamlico and Albemarle
        Sounds on 6.6 hp. The boat is about 26' LOD, 8'0" beam, 30" draft
        board up, and 5000# or so displacement loaded. Based on these
        experiences, I'd like something about the same speed, economy,
        seaworthiness, and accommodations, but with significantly better
        weather protection and lower clearance to poke up interesting
        gunkholes above bridges. We need shallower draft (tunnel stern) to
        explore shallower, less visited sounds and creeks. I'd like to ditch
        much of the 2300# ballast and rigging and regain seaworthiness by
        adding length and perhaps narrowing the beam. The boat has to be
        trailerable because we're based in Colorado. "River Belle" is close,
        but somewhat bigger and much faster and more powerful than I have in
        mind. I'd prefer plywood construction and a more traditional
        sheerline. I'm open to suggestions for boats or modification of my
        wishes.

        Ron
      • jkohnen@boat-links.com
        How shallow a draft do you need? I know, the shallower the better, but would 2 do? Take a look at Little Silver:
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 2, 2004
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          How shallow a draft do you need? I know, the shallower the better, but would
          2' do? Take a look at Little Silver:

          http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/LittleSilver.html

          Don't let the flat bottom put you off, Wader should be quite capable in the
          type of water you like to cruise in, and her draft is only 1' 5":

          http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/Wader.html

          For really low power a sailboat hullworks pretty good. Take a look at some
          of the shallow-hulled centerboard sailboats in the catalog, with an eye
          towards ditching the rig and adding a motorboat style cabin and cockpit
          (sorry Pat <g>). You might look at Twilight and Great Bear:

          http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Twilight.html

          http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/GreatBear.html

          You're not crazy, going slow and easy is nice. Try to make your engine as
          unobtrusive as possible with vibration damping, sound insulation and good
          muffling of the exhaust. Quiet is a Good Thing in a boat. It's possible to
          put up with a noisy, vibratory engine in a fast boat because you get where
          you're going quick and can shut it off soon, but noise and vibration are a
          pain in the neck in a slow boat where you're trying to enjoy the journey...

          On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:00:21 -0000, Ron wrote:
          > This may sound crazy, but I plan a single-cylinder Diesel of 6.6 to
          > perhaps 8 hp cruising at about 3/4 max power. The background is that
          > we have done 3 month-long cruises (plus some shorter trips) in our
          > Balboa 8.2 sailboat and had a wonderful time
          > ...
          > I'd like something about the same speed, economy,
          > seaworthiness, and accommodations, but with significantly better
          > weather protection and lower clearance to poke up interesting
          > gunkholes above bridges. We need shallower draft (tunnel stern) to
          > explore shallower, less visited sounds and creeks. I'd like to ditch
          > much of the 2300# ballast and rigging and regain seaworthiness by
          > adding length and perhaps narrowing the beam. The boat has to be
          > trailerable because we're based in Colorado. "River Belle" is close,
          > but somewhat bigger and much faster and more powerful than I have in
          > mind. I'd prefer plywood construction and a more traditional
          > sheerline. I'm open to suggestions for boats or modification of my
          > wishes.

          --
          John <jkohnen@...>
          http://www.boat-links.com/
          What is more pleasant than a friendly little yacht, a long stretch of
          smooth water, a gentle breeze, the stars? <Billy Atkin>
        • Lewis E. Gordon
          Ron, Doesn?t sound crazy at all. With the price of petroleum products setting records, going slow may be the way of the future. Dave Gerr, NA in NY, has
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 2, 2004
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            Ron,

            Doesn?t sound crazy at all. With the price of petroleum products
            setting records, going slow may be the way of the future. Dave Gerr,
            NA in NY, has written several articles in Boat Builder magazine about
            displacement speed tunnel drive. He has designed several in the larger
            sizes (45 feet or so) and he seems to think tunnel drives are
            efficient at lower S/L ratios.

            Pick the design you like for seaworthiness and the displacement you
            need for your extended cruising. Power with 1 HP per 500 pounds
            displacement (seems to be the ROT for displacement speed hulls), and
            go for it! Some single cylinder diesels can vibrate too much for a
            very light boat. Another ROT is too make the engine bed logs weigh at
            least 20% of the engine weight (with gear).

            Good Luck,
            Lewis in Granada, Nicaragua


            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "ronschwiesow" <nanron62@m...> wrote:
            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
            > > squeeze the most out of every electron. What sort of power are you
            > > contemplating?
            >
            > This may sound crazy, but I plan a single-cylinder Diesel of 6.6 to
            > perhaps 8 hp cruising at about 3/4 max power. The background is that
            > we have done 3 month-long cruises (plus some shorter trips) in our
            > Balboa 8.2 sailboat and had a wonderful time in the Pacific
            > Northwest, the upper 2/3 of the Chesapeake, and Pamlico and Albemarle
            > Sounds on 6.6 hp. The boat is about 26' LOD, 8'0" beam, 30" draft
            > board up, and 5000# or so displacement loaded. Based on these
            > experiences, I'd like something about the same speed, economy,
            > seaworthiness, and accommodations, but with significantly better
            > weather protection and lower clearance to poke up interesting
            > gunkholes above bridges. We need shallower draft (tunnel stern) to
            > explore shallower, less visited sounds and creeks. I'd like to ditch
            > much of the 2300# ballast and rigging and regain seaworthiness by
            > adding length and perhaps narrowing the beam. The boat has to be
            > trailerable because we're based in Colorado. "River Belle" is close,
            > but somewhat bigger and much faster and more powerful than I have in
            > mind. I'd prefer plywood construction and a more traditional
            > sheerline. I'm open to suggestions for boats or modification of my
            > wishes.
            >
            > Ron
          • DirtSailor
            Ron, While you were cruising around Ablemarle, and Pamlico, did you make it up to Coinjock for Dinner? I took a boat from Rockport Mass. down to Fort
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 3, 2004
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              Ron,

              While you were cruising around Ablemarle, and Pamlico, did you make it up to Coinjock for Dinner? I took a boat from Rockport Mass. down to Fort Lauderdale. Would really like to go back and spend some more time in the ditch.

              Case


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            • ronschwiesow
              ... Thank you very much for your good suggestions, John and Lewis. This is a helpful board. You have given me much to think about. Wader is appealing with the
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 3, 2004
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                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
                > ...You're not crazy, going slow and easy is nice.

                Thank you very much for your good suggestions, John and Lewis. This
                is a helpful board. You have given me much to think about. Wader is
                appealing with the shallow draft and good protection for the helm.
                I'll be doing comparisons and will need to order plans in a while.

                Ron
              • jkohnen@boat-links.com
                I looked at the MoToR BoatinG article about Wader last night. Nice boat! The design and Billy s prose made me want one for myself! I think Wader would be
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 5, 2004
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                  I looked at the MoToR BoatinG article about Wader last night. Nice boat! The
                  design and Billy's prose made me want one for myself! <g> I think Wader
                  would be just the ticket for Ron. Look at the lines, the forefoot is sharp
                  and extends well below the waterline -- it'd take a lot of chop to make it
                  pound; the bottom curves up gently to the waterline aft, making the boat
                  easy to drive with low power (and making it a waste of money to put a big
                  engine in it). The construction uses full frames and batten seams. The boat
                  could be built with planks and still live on a trailer, but she could also
                  easily be converted to plywood without changing the framing at all. The
                  curved tumblehome at the stern would be a challenge, but it would be a shame
                  to do away with it. Using batten seam plywood planks in that area, two
                  layers of thin plywood planks, odd shaped chunks of plywood, or "cold
                  molding" the sides aft out of two or three layers of thin diagonal plywood
                  planks are a few ways the challenge could be met. As John Atkin says, "...
                  in some cases the lines of a flat bottom or V-bottom hull are relatively
                  simple so that the builder might adapt the construction to use plywood in
                  sheet form. Occasionally, this will require some ingenuity."

                  With a little care in the construction and finish Wader would be a nice
                  looking boat, she'd turn heads wherever she went and most people would never
                  realize that underneath she's just a flat-bottom skiff. <g> Don't you dare
                  think about raising the cabin Ron! Five feet of headroom is plenty for
                  standing and pulling your pants up in the morning and the rest of the time
                  you'll be sitting or lying when below.

                  On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 15:23:29 -0000, Ron wrote:
                  > Thank you very much for your good suggestions, John and Lewis. This
                  > is a helpful board. You have given me much to think about. Wader is
                  > appealing with the shallow draft and good protection for the helm.
                  > I'll be doing comparisons and will need to order plans in a while.

                  --
                  John <jkohnen@...>
                  http://www.boat-links.com/
                  After all, all he did was string together a lot of old,
                  well-known quotations. <H. L. Mencken on Shakespeare>
                • sdholt
                  Greeting to all from Okinawa, Japan. A true island paradise. Can t believe after all the time (years) and money I ve spent looking for just the right boat and
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 14, 2004
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                    Greeting to all from Okinawa, Japan. A true island paradise.

                    Can't believe after all the time (years) and money I've spent
                    looking for just the right boat and I stumble on to
                    Atkinboatplans.com. I've always equated the Atkins with double-
                    enders. What a surprise.. I've been looking for a traditional style
                    boat be it schooner, cutter, or sloop. I found the boat, or should I
                    say boats, because I don't know which one I like the best. My
                    selections are ""America Junior", "Little Maid of Kent", and of
                    course "Island Princess". Schooners ever last one of them. The boat
                    that stirs the heart and sole of everyone, sailor or not. The
                    dicision is difficult because the gaff mainsail of "America Junior" I
                    think would look great on the other two boats. If that was the case,
                    the decision would be easy. "Island Princess" would win. I know the
                    Atkins say don't change anything in the design, but if you have a
                    gaff sail of equal size (to include reef points) as the current
                    marconi design would it work? I don't see why not. Anyone's
                    thoughts or comments...

                    Arrrg....
                  • sdholt
                    By the way the name is Scott.
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 14, 2004
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                      By the way the name is Scott.
                    • jkohnen@boat-links.com
                      Welcome aboard Scott! Schooners have been switched back and forth between Marconi and gaff mainsails before. You ve got to be careful not to move the center of
                      Message 10 of 20 , Oct 17, 2004
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                        Welcome aboard Scott! Schooners have been switched back and forth between
                        Marconi and gaff mainsails before. You've got to be careful not to move the
                        center of effort of the sail plan very much, or you'll spoil the sailing
                        balance of the boat. Jim Michalak (rhymes with "metallic") has a good
                        introduction to figuring out sail areas and centers of effort here:

                        http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/15jun04.htm

                        Of course it's more complicated with all the sails a schooner carries! <g>
                        Just use the working sails for the math, not the light weather stuff.

                        On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:53:16 -0000, Scott wrote:
                        > ...
                        > I've been looking for a traditional style
                        > boat be it schooner, cutter, or sloop. I found the boat, or should I
                        > say boats, because I don't know which one I like the best. My
                        > selections are ""America Junior", "Little Maid of Kent", and of
                        > course "Island Princess". Schooners ever last one of them. The boat
                        > that stirs the heart and sole of everyone, sailor or not. The
                        > dicision is difficult because the gaff mainsail of "America Junior" I
                        > think would look great on the other two boats. If that was the case,
                        > the decision would be easy. "Island Princess" would win. I know the
                        > Atkins say don't change anything in the design, but if you have a
                        > gaff sail of equal size (to include reef points) as the current
                        > marconi design would it work? I don't see why not. Anyone's
                        > thoughts or comments...

                        --
                        John <jkohnen@...>
                        http://www.boat-links.com/
                        One boat just leads to another.
                        <John Kohnen>
                      • Scott Holt
                        John, Thanks for the link to Jim s homepage. Very informative. I would never take it upon my self to change any design for fear of botching the job. A
                        Message 11 of 20 , Oct 17, 2004
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                          John,
                          Thanks for the link to Jim's homepage. Very
                          informative. I would never take it upon my self to
                          change any design for fear of botching the job. A
                          designer I am not. Many boats out there for the
                          backyard builder are not proven designs. Atkins
                          designs are proven. That being the case I would not
                          change the sailplan. I am a schooner man .....

                          By the way I did not realize you are the same John
                          from "The Mother of All Maritime Links." Great site
                          and lots of fun and information. I use it often..

                          Thanks.
                          Scott




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                        • Bruce Elfstrom
                          Hello Scott. I know it s not an Atkin s, but I have a free Murray Peterson 44 Schooner here. Its in need of restoration, but she has very nice traditional
                          Message 12 of 20 , Oct 17, 2004
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                            Hello Scott. I know it's not an Atkin's, but I have a free Murray
                            Peterson 44 Schooner here. Its in need of restoration, but she has
                            very nice traditional coaster lines.

                            Let me know---I will have some pix, etc on www.classicworkboat.com
                            ASAP---some info already there.

                            Cheers, Bruce
                          • jkohnen@boat-links.com
                            Even if you re just changing the mainsail of a schooner check the center of effort. Of course if you change the mainsail to a gaff sail you re on your own and
                            Message 13 of 20 , Oct 17, 2004
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                              Even if you're just changing the mainsail of a schooner check the center of
                              effort. Of course if you change the mainsail to a gaff sail you're on your
                              own and Mrs. Atkin won't have anything to do with you any more! ;o) Getting
                              professional help shouldn't cost much, especially when you compare it to the
                              cost of building the schooner. Jay Benford used to work for the Atkins, and
                              is familiar with traditonal rigs. He'd be a good designer to ask for help:

                              http://www.benford.us/

                              If you had a professional draw a gaff mainsail for you Mrs. Atkin might even
                              forgive you! ;o)

                              On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 08:11:28 -0700 (PDT), Scott wrote:
                              >
                              > John,
                              > Thanks for the link to Jim's homepage. Very
                              > informative. I would never take it upon my self to
                              > change any design for fear of botching the job. A
                              > designer I am not. Many boats out there for the
                              > backyard builder are not proven designs. Atkins
                              > designs are proven. That being the case I would not
                              > change the sailplan. I am a schooner man .....
                              > ...

                              --
                              John <jkohnen@...>
                              http://www.boat-links.com/
                              There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is
                              the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness.
                              <H. L. Mencken>
                            • Scott Holt
                              Thanks for the info Bruce. 43 is far to much boat for me. That s why I was so excited about finding Atkin s 30 / 36 schooners. By the way I m also in
                              Message 14 of 20 , Oct 17, 2004
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                                Thanks for the info Bruce. 43' is far to much boat
                                for me. That's why I was so excited about finding
                                Atkin's 30'/ 36' schooners.

                                By the way I'm also in Okinawa, Japan. Another
                                typhoon is heading our way..




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                              • wmeparker@cinci.rr.com
                                Welcome to the list, Scott. As long as the topic is current, let me add that I have put together a personal site for Atkin schooner enthusiasts called A
                                Message 15 of 20 , Oct 18, 2004
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                                  Welcome to the list, Scott. As long as the topic is current, let me add that I have put together a personal site for Atkin schooner enthusiasts called "A Celebration of Atkin Schooners". It is meant to be a place where those who are interested can get information and see other people's Atkin schooners. Frankly, it's just a shameless ploy on my part to find other Atkin schooner owners to talk to.

                                  Here is the URL:
                                  http://www.geocities.com/wmeparker

                                  I welcome all feedback that makes sense. The best way to leave that is via the guest book.

                                  Best,
                                  Bill


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Scott Holt
                                  Thanks for the link. I like it and can t wait for other Atkins schooner owners to send in their pictures. I added your site to my favorite site list and will
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Oct 18, 2004
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                                    Thanks for the link. I like it and can't wait for
                                    other Atkins schooner owners to send in their
                                    pictures. I added your site to my favorite site list
                                    and will check often for updates. Thanks..

                                    How can you not love the sight of a schooner..




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                                  • Scott Holt
                                    Thanks for the link. I like it and can t wait for other Atkins schooner owners to send in their pictures. I added your site to my favorite site list and will
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Oct 18, 2004
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                                      Thanks for the link. I like it and can't wait for
                                      other Atkins schooner owners to send in their
                                      pictures. I added your site to my favorite site list
                                      and will check often for updates. Thanks..

                                      How can you not love the sight of a schooner..




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                                    • Scott Holt
                                      Thanks for the link. I like it and can t wait for other Atkins schooner owners to send in their pictures. I added your site to my favorite site list and will
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Oct 18, 2004
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                                        Thanks for the link. I like it and can't wait for
                                        other Atkins schooner owners to send in their
                                        pictures. I added your site to my favorite site list
                                        and will check often for updates. Thanks..

                                        How can you not love the sight of a schooner..




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                                      • Scott Holt
                                        Thanks for the link. I like it and can t wait for other Atkins schooner owners to send in their pictures. I added your site to my favorite site list and will
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Oct 18, 2004
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                                          Thanks for the link. I like it and can't wait for
                                          other Atkins schooner owners to send in their
                                          pictures. I added your site to my favorite site list
                                          and will check often for updates. Thanks..

                                          How can you not love the sight of a schooner..




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