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Raising Sails

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  • jim.lanahan@verizon.net
    I have a friend who is building a 10 ft Nymph. It will be finished in the spring. I will have the pleasure of providing some sailing lessons. I am the owner
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 5, 2011
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      I have a friend who is building a 10 ft Nymph. It will be finished in the spring.

      I will have the pleasure of providing some sailing lessons. I am the owner of an O'Day Mariner (Blue Moon #1440). Is there anything unique about raising the sail on the Nymph. From picture it appears that they are laced on. Do they raise and llower easily? Is there a traditional halyard? Would their plans have rigging information?

      Any assistance would be appreciated.

      Jim
    • JohnA
      ... If laced properly, the sail should go up and down easily. Sometimes you need to give it a bit of encouragement coming down, just by pulling it down the
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 5, 2011
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        > I will have the pleasure of providing some sailing lessons. I am the owner of an O'Day Mariner (Blue Moon #1440). Is there anything unique about raising the sail on the Nymph. From picture it appears that they are laced on. Do they raise and llower easily?

        If laced properly, the sail should go up and down easily. Sometimes you need to give it a bit of encouragement coming down, just by pulling it down the mast.

        > Is there a traditional halyard?

        Yes

        > Would their plans have rigging information?

        Probably some. The Atkin plans date from an era where how to lace a sail, etc., was common knowledge, so the plan could be kept simple.

        Looks like an easy boat to sail. The one thing to watch out for is, like all flat bottom boats, she's going to have a lot of initial stability, but when pushed too hard, she'll go over. Hopefully the sail will have a set of reef points? I believe that's what's indicated by that horizontal line about 1/4 of the way up the sail.

        A good book for sailing traditional boats is "Hand, Reef, and Steer"

        http://www.amazon.com/Hand-Reef-Steer-Tom-Cunliffe/dp/1574092030/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_2

        Should be a lot of fun!

        -- John
      • Mike
        I d set the sail on the dock and plant the mast after I was in the boat. Looks to me like the halyard is the forestay .
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 5, 2011
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          I'd "set" the sail on the dock and plant the mast after I was in the boat. Looks to me like the halyard is the "forestay".

          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "jim.lanahan@..." <jim.lanahan@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have a friend who is building a 10 ft Nymph. It will be finished in the spring.
          >
          > I will have the pleasure of providing some sailing lessons. I am the owner of an O'Day Mariner (Blue Moon #1440). Is there anything unique about raising the sail on the Nymph. From picture it appears that they are laced on. Do they raise and llower easily? Is there a traditional halyard? Would their plans have rigging information?
          >
          > Any assistance would be appreciated.
          >
          > Jim
          >
        • JohnA
          ... But presumably the halyard/forestay is run through a sheave at the top of the mast, or at least a suitably sized hole. You should be able to run the sail
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 5, 2011
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            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <johndolph@...> wrote:
            >
            >Looks to me like the halyard is the "forestay".

            But presumably the halyard/forestay is run through a sheave at the top of the mast, or at least a suitably sized hole.

            You should be able to run the sail up and down the mast from within the boat, otherwise it's dang inconvenient, not to mention dangerous in a sudden blow.
          • Mike
            Yes, I would definitely think of it as only a safety and take care to secure the mast without it or just lower the whole rig when away from the boat. I
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 6, 2011
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              Yes, I would definitely think of it as only a "safety" and take care to secure the mast without it or just lower the whole rig when away from the boat. I don't doubt it would be possible to lower the sail as shown I just wonder if it would be the easier thing to do.

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "JohnA" <jalmberg@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <johndolph@> wrote:
              > >
              > >Looks to me like the halyard is the "forestay".
              >
              > But presumably the halyard/forestay is run through a sheave at the top of the mast, or at least a suitably sized hole.
              >
              > You should be able to run the sail up and down the mast from within the boat, otherwise it's dang inconvenient, not to mention dangerous in a sudden blow.
              >
            • John Kohnen
              There s a kind of lacing called forth and back that will silde up and down easily and won t jam. It s hard to explain, but not difficult to do. I ll draw a
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 6, 2011
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                There's a kind of lacing called "forth and back" that will silde up and
                down easily and won't jam. It's hard to explain, but not difficult to do.
                I'll draw a sketch or take a photo if anyone's interested... There's no
                reason not to use individual luff ties or mast hoops on Nymph if you want,
                but of course you'd have to make your own mast hoops. One of our Coots
                made mast hoops out of wooden needlepoint hoops, but I doubt you'd be able
                to find any small enough for Nymph.

                The halyard appears to do double duty as a forestay. Run it through a
                block fastened to the back of the stem and aft to a cleat where it's easy
                to get to.

                The plans may not have more details than the drawings in The Small Boat
                Book I just looked at, just bigger drawings. Nymph's rig is quite simple
                and easy to figure out anyway.


                On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 06:09:40 -0800, Jim L wrote:

                > I have a friend who is building a 10 ft Nymph. It will be finished in
                > the spring.
                >
                > I will have the pleasure of providing some sailing lessons. I am the
                > owner of an O'Day Mariner (Blue Moon #1440). Is there anything unique
                > about raising the sail on the Nymph. From picture it appears that they
                > are laced on. Do they raise and llower easily? Is there a traditional
                > halyard? Would their plans have rigging information?

                --
                John (jkohnen@...)
                No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of
                society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we
                shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for
                stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power. (P.J. O'Rourke)
              • Elaina McCartney
                I ve always used forth and back on Tresarus, with no problems. There is picture in Leather s Gaff Rig Handbook, and a poor reproduction of the picture here,
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 6, 2011
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                  I've always used forth and back on Tresarus, with no problems. There is
                  picture in Leather's Gaff Rig Handbook, and a poor reproduction of the
                  picture here, if you scroll down:
                  http://www.gaffrigpage.com/detail-pages/the-main-sail/

                  What doesn't show well in the picture is that every other line that
                  crosses the mast is drawn dashed, to signify that it's behind the mast
                  from this view. You go around the mast, through the grommet "forth" then
                  through the next grommet "back", then around the mast in the same
                  direction as previous. A bight with a figure eight at the reef grommet
                  makes it easy to handle when reefing.

                  Elaina

                  On 3/6/11 5:56 PM, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:

                  >There's a kind of lacing called "forth and back" that will silde up and
                  >down easily and won't jam. It's hard to explain, but not difficult to do.
                  >
                  >I'll draw a sketch or take a photo if anyone's interested... There's no
                  >reason not to use individual luff ties or mast hoops on Nymph if you
                  >want,
                  >but of course you'd have to make your own mast hoops. One of our Coots
                  >made mast hoops out of wooden needlepoint hoops, but I doubt you'd be
                  >able
                  >to find any small enough for Nymph.
                  >
                  >The halyard appears to do double duty as a forestay. Run it through a
                  >block fastened to the back of the stem and aft to a cleat where it's easy
                  >
                  >to get to.
                  >
                  >The plans may not have more details than the drawings in The Small Boat
                  >Book I just looked at, just bigger drawings. Nymph's rig is quite simple
                  >and easy to figure out anyway.
                  >
                  >
                  >On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 06:09:40 -0800, Jim L wrote:
                  >
                  >> I have a friend who is building a 10 ft Nymph. It will be finished in
                  >> the spring.
                  >>
                  >> I will have the pleasure of providing some sailing lessons. I am the
                  >> owner of an O'Day Mariner (Blue Moon #1440). Is there anything unique
                  >> about raising the sail on the Nymph. From picture it appears that they
                  >> are laced on. Do they raise and llower easily? Is there a traditional
                  >>
                  >> halyard? Would their plans have rigging information?
                  >
                  >--
                  >John (jkohnen@...)
                  >No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of
                  >society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we
                  >shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for
                  >stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power. (P.J. O'Rourke)
                  >
                  >
                  >------------------------------------
                  >
                  >No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be
                  >polite.
                  >
                  >If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
                  >you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
                  >take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.
                  >
                  >The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                  ><http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • William E. Parker
                  My Florence Oakland is laced on both the main and fore and I really don t have a problem hoisting or dousing, except if the lace gets caught on something in
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 6, 2011
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                    My Florence Oakland is laced on both the main and fore and I really don’t have a problem hoisting or dousing, except if the lace gets caught on something in the process of raising.  I use the forth and back method.  I don’t use a lace for the gaffs and booms, I use individual ties.  In my experience, letting the gaff get angled to the mast when raising or lowering is far more of a problem, solved by handing both the throat and peak halyards together after getting the gaff perpendicular to the mast.

                     

                    Best,

                    Bill

                     

                    From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elaina McCartney
                    Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 6:10 PM
                    To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Raising Sails

                     

                     

                    I've always used forth and back on Tresarus, with no problems. There is
                    picture in Leather's Gaff Rig Handbook, and a poor reproduction of the
                    picture here, if you scroll down:
                    http://www.gaffrigpage.com/detail-pages/the-main-sail/

                    What doesn't show well in the picture is that every other line that
                    crosses the mast is drawn dashed, to signify that it's behind the mast
                    from this view. You go around the mast, through the grommet "forth" then
                    through the next grommet "back", then around the mast in the same
                    direction as previous. A bight with a figure eight at the reef grommet
                    makes it easy to handle when reefing.

                    Elaina

                    On 3/6/11 5:56 PM, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:

                    >There's a kind of lacing called "forth and back" that will silde up and
                    >down easily and won't jam. It's hard to explain, but not difficult to do.
                    >
                    >I'll draw a sketch or take a photo if anyone's interested... There's no
                    >reason not to use individual luff ties or mast hoops on Nymph if you
                    >want,
                    >but of course you'd have to make your own mast hoops. One of our Coots
                    >made mast hoops out of wooden needlepoint hoops, but I doubt you'd be
                    >able
                    >to find any small enough for Nymph.
                    >
                    >The halyard appears to do double duty as a forestay. Run it through a
                    >block fastened to the back of the stem and aft to a cleat where it's easy
                    >
                    >to get to.
                    >
                    >The plans may not have more details than the drawings in The Small Boat
                    >Book I just looked at, just bigger drawings. Nymph's rig is quite simple
                    >and easy to figure out anyway.
                    >
                    >
                    >On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 06:09:40 -0800, Jim L wrote:
                    >
                    >> I have a friend who is building a 10 ft Nymph. It will be finished in
                    >> the spring.
                    >>
                    >> I will have the pleasure of providing some sailing lessons. I am the
                    >> owner of an O'Day Mariner (Blue Moon #1440). Is there anything unique
                    >> about raising the sail on the Nymph. From picture it appears that they
                    >> are laced on. Do they raise and llower easily? Is there a traditional
                    >>
                    >> halyard? Would their plans have rigging information?
                    >
                    >--
                    >John (jkohnen@...)
                    >No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of
                    >society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we
                    >shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for
                    >stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power. (P.J. O'Rourke)
                    >
                    >
                    >------------------------------------
                    >
                    >No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be
                    >polite.
                    >
                    >If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If
                    >you stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will
                    >take no responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.
                    >
                    >The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                    ><http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >

                  • John Almberg
                    ... raising or lowering is far more of a problem, solved by handing both the throat and peak halyards together after getting the gaff perpendicular to the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 6, 2011
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                      >  In my
                      experience, letting the gaff get angled to the mast when raising or lowering is far more of a problem, solved by handing both the throat and peak halyards together after getting the gaff perpendicular to the mast.

                      I find it helps to keep the gaff peaked up a just bit while raising and lowering. I guess it probably depends on the gaff throat, though.
                    • John Almberg
                      ... Sorry... I meant gaff jaws, of course. Is spring coming soon? I m starting to forget this stuff, it s been so long :-)
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 6, 2011
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                        John Almberg wrote:
                         

                        >  In my experience, letting the gaff get angled to the mast when raising or lowering is far more of a problem, solved by handing both the throat and peak halyards together after getting the gaff perpendicular to the mast.

                        I find it helps to keep the gaff peaked up a just bit while raising and lowering. I guess it probably depends on the gaff throat, though.

                        Sorry... I meant gaff jaws, of course. Is spring coming soon? I'm starting to forget this stuff, it's been so long :-)



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