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Re: Sailing Skiffs

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  • Dennis
    Thanks, John. I learned to build and sail on a Bolger design so I am a fan of simple unstayed rigs. If I built either Jasper or Aunty Helen, I would change to
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 23, 2004
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      Thanks, John. I learned to build and sail on a Bolger design so I am
      a fan of simple unstayed rigs. If I built either Jasper or Aunty
      Helen, I would change to a single sail -- either sprit or lug. I like
      the aesthetics of the square rigs. Do you know of any Atkin designed
      flat bottomed skiffs in the 15-16ft range that carry more beam than
      either Erika or Dickey? I've not seen one that I recall. Maybe you
      know of one?

      Dennis

      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
      > Don't ignore Jasper, another nice little sailing skiff. There used
      to be one
      > at Criteser's near Toledo. It looked like a very nice little boat,
      and the
      > owner said it sailed real good. Jasper _is_ a little boat, but that
      can be
      > an asset, depending on your needs. If I built an Aunty Helen I'd be
      awfully
      > tempted to use sprit booms like Jasper's. One thing I don't like
      about some
      > of the Atkin boats is too much wire and fancy fittings in the
      rigging. After
      > living with a sprit rigged skiff with an unstayed mast, I can't
      understand
      > why anybody'd want stays and goosenecks and sail tracks and whatnot
      on a
      > small, simple boat...
      >
      > If you want to support the Atkin Website, when you order plans use
      the
      > printout order form there, or the one in the PDF price list, or
      otherwise
      > tell Mrs. Atkin that you use the site, so I can get my modest cut
      from the
      > sale.
      >
      > On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:24:11 -0000, Dennis wrote:
      > > John, I want to thank you for taking the time and trouble of
      making
      > > these designs available on the web. I have the catalog and have
      > > always been frustrated by the minimal information contained in it.
      > > The write-ups on the website are quite helpful and, of course,
      engage
      > > the drool factor. Presently, I have plans for both "Lark"
      and "Willy
      > > Winship." Having read about "Alone," "Erika," and "Aunty Helen" it
      > > looks as if I am going to have to scrape together some $ for
      these. I
      > > am going to build a sailing skiff in the near future and I know
      it is
      > > going to be an Atkin design. I am looking forward to seeing the
      pics
      > > as you get them up.
      >
      > --
      > John <jkohnen@b...>
      > http://www.boat-links.com/
      > Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
      > Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. <Groucho Marx>
    • jkohnen@boat-links.com
      I think I ve pretty well got all the flat-bottom sailing skiffs online now, except Dickey and Lark, and they ll be there soon. Here are some wider skiffs,
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 23, 2004
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        I think I've pretty well got all the flat-bottom sailing skiffs online now,
        except Dickey and Lark, and they'll be there soon. Here are some wider
        skiffs, three of them hiding behind the name "catboat". <g>

        Katelyn - 14'3" x 4'10"
        Cat Bird - 16' x 5'5"
        Krazy Kat - 17' x 6'1/2"
        James Samuel, Jr. - 17'1" x 7'1"

        If you like fat skiffs, you might want to take a look at Warren Jordan's
        Footloose. I've had one for several years and love it dearly. 15'2" x 5'6":

        http://www.jordanwoodboats.com/

        On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:46:20 -0000, Dennis wrote:
        > Thanks, John. I learned to build and sail on a Bolger design so I am
        > a fan of simple unstayed rigs. If I built either Jasper or Aunty
        > Helen, I would change to a single sail -- either sprit or lug. I like
        > the aesthetics of the square rigs. Do you know of any Atkin designed
        > flat bottomed skiffs in the 15-16ft range that carry more beam than
        > either Erika or Dickey? I've not seen one that I recall. Maybe you
        > know of one?

        --
        John <jkohnen@...>
        http://www.boat-links.com/
        People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading.
        <Logan Pearsall Smith>
      • Dennis
        John, ever since reading Stambaugh s good skiffs, I ve wondered about Jordan s Footloose. Care to give a testimonial? I d be interested in hearing what you
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 24, 2004
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          John, ever since reading Stambaugh's good skiffs, I've wondered about
          Jordan's Footloose. Care to give a testimonial? I'd be interested in
          hearing what you have to say about her.

          Dennis

          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
          > I think I've pretty well got all the flat-bottom sailing skiffs
          online now,
          > except Dickey and Lark, and they'll be there soon. Here are some
          wider
          > skiffs, three of them hiding behind the name "catboat". <g>
          >
          > Katelyn - 14'3" x 4'10"
          > Cat Bird - 16' x 5'5"
          > Krazy Kat - 17' x 6'1/2"
          > James Samuel, Jr. - 17'1" x 7'1"
          >
          > If you like fat skiffs, you might want to take a look at Warren
          Jordan's
          > Footloose. I've had one for several years and love it dearly. 15'2"
          x 5'6":
          >
          > http://www.jordanwoodboats.com/
          >
          > On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:46:20 -0000, Dennis wrote:
          > > Thanks, John. I learned to build and sail on a Bolger design so I
          am
          > > a fan of simple unstayed rigs. If I built either Jasper or Aunty
          > > Helen, I would change to a single sail -- either sprit or lug. I
          like
          > > the aesthetics of the square rigs. Do you know of any Atkin
          designed
          > > flat bottomed skiffs in the 15-16ft range that carry more beam
          than
          > > either Erika or Dickey? I've not seen one that I recall. Maybe you
          > > know of one?
          >
          > --
          > John <jkohnen@b...>
          > http://www.boat-links.com/
          > People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading.
          > <Logan Pearsall Smith>
        • craig o'donnell
          ... Stay tuned for a Chapelle skiff from 1956 - should appear in both MAIB and in Duckworks. 14 by 5. -- Craig O Donnell Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 25, 2004
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            >John, ever since reading Stambaugh's good skiffs, I've wondered about
            >Jordan's Footloose. Care to give a testimonial? I'd be interested in
            >hearing what you have to say about her.
            >
            >Dennis

            Stay tuned for a Chapelle skiff from 1956 - should appear in both MAIB and
            in Duckworks. 14' by 5.
            --
            Craig O'Donnell
            Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
            <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
            The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
            The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
            Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
            American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
            Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
            _________________________________

            -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
            -- Macintosh kinda guy
            Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
            _________________________________
          • Dennis
            Craig, is it the sailing skiff that is sloop rigged with 130sqft of canvas? Oh, man! Be still my thudding heart! Dennis ... about ... in ... MAIB and ...
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 25, 2004
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              Craig, is it the sailing skiff that is sloop rigged with 130sqft of
              canvas? Oh, man! Be still my thudding heart!

              Dennis

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, craig o'donnell <dadadata@f...>
              wrote:
              > >John, ever since reading Stambaugh's good skiffs, I've wondered
              about
              > >Jordan's Footloose. Care to give a testimonial? I'd be interested
              in
              > >hearing what you have to say about her.
              > >
              > >Dennis
              >
              > Stay tuned for a Chapelle skiff from 1956 - should appear in both
              MAIB and
              > in Duckworks. 14' by 5.
              > --
              > Craig O'Donnell
              > Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
              > <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
              > The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
              > The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
              > Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese
              Junks,
              > American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
              > Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
              > _________________________________
              >
              > -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
              > -- Macintosh kinda guy
              > Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
              > _________________________________
            • craig o'donnell
              ... No ... from my intro to the piece: The skiff is Chapelle s own design, based on a craft he measured at Coan, Virginia. You can order large-scale plans from
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 25, 2004
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                >Craig, is it the sailing skiff that is sloop rigged with 130sqft of
                >canvas? Oh, man! Be still my thudding heart!

                No ... from my intro to the piece:

                The skiff is Chapelle's own design, based on a craft he measured at Coan,
                Virginia. You can order large-scale plans from the Smithsonian -- #
                HIC-105. The skiff's dimensions are: 14' by 5' with draft: 1' (cb down
                2'6"). Sail area is 78 sq. ft.
                --
                Craig O'Donnell
                Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
                <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
                The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
                The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
                Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
                American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
                Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
                _________________________________

                -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
                -- Macintosh kinda guy
                Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
                _________________________________

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • jkohnen@boat-links.com
                Several years ago, the first boat I saw when I arrived at the Depoe Bay Wooden Boat Festival was a fancy sprit-rigged sailing skiff. I looked it over and
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 25, 2004
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                  Several years ago, the first boat I saw when I arrived at the Depoe Bay
                  Wooden Boat Festival was a fancy sprit-rigged sailing skiff. I looked it
                  over and thought, "I could see myself in a boat like this, only not so
                  fancy." It was a Footloose built by boatbuilder Louie Brochetti from
                  Redmond.

                  http://www.boat-links.com/DepoeBay/99/BoatFest-1.html

                  I'd previously been of the mind that skiffs should be slender, but the
                  Footloose looked just fine, it's got a fair amount of flare in the sides, so
                  while the beam a the gunwales is a lot, it's not too bad on the bottom. At
                  any rate, I ended up buying Louie's skiff several months later.

                  The sprit rig took some getting used to, and I'm still figuring it out. I
                  really like not having a boom to hit me in the head, and the rig is so
                  simple it only takes me a few minutes to get rigged. All the spars store
                  inside the boat, under the cover. Pickle (named after the RN schooner that
                  brought news of the battle of Trafalgar to England) sails well, going to
                  windward well enough to get me where I'm going, but not like the go-fast
                  boats. The loose-footed sail's weak point is running downwind, but I've
                  never experienced the "death roll" I've heard about people getting into with
                  other loose-footed sailed boats. Pickle is a poor drifter. Warren Jordan
                  designed Footloose for the lakes and bays on the Oregon coast, where it's
                  usually windy, so the sail area is small. Louie specified quite heavy
                  sailcloth, and the sail is cut fairly flat, both of which don't help in a
                  light breeze. When it comes time for a new sail, I'll go with lighter
                  sailcloth. Reefing a spritsail is difficult, and in Pickle involves standing
                  up near the bow and reaching way up the mast to slip the snotter down to the
                  reefed position.

                  Pickle is very stable, and sails quite flat. The argument that a flat-
                  bottomed sailboat won't pound badly because it's usually heeled over,
                  presenting a V to the water, applies less to fat flat-bottomed boats. It's
                  best to take a passenger along to catch the spray when out on a choppy day
                  (I know you're here, Joe <g>). What's worst though are motorboat wakes when
                  the breeze is light, they'll stop Pickle dead. :o( I weigh over 16 stone,
                  but can stand up and stomp all around in Pickle without fear, which is a
                  very nice thing about fat flat-bottom boats.

                  I sail Pickle sitting on the floorboards between the sternsheets and the aft
                  thwart, leaning against the side, very comfortable for my crotchety middle-
                  aged bones. The interior of Pickle is all cluttered up with thwarts and a
                  centerboard trunk, but that's normal for that kind of boat. Makes me
                  appreciate leeboards, or keels. But take a look at Alone for a skiff that
                  tries to address the problem:

                  http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Alone.html

                  Pickle is a sailboat first and foremost, she rows OK, and powers OK (a 2-
                  horse is plenty), but likes sailing best.

                  All in all, Pickle suits me very well at this stage in my life. Warren
                  Jordan is a former commercial fisherman who's decided that the only kind of
                  boating he'll be doing from now on will be peaceful, comfortable, safe and
                  fun. This shows in the design of Footloose. It's a Good Boat.

                  On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 02:18:51 -0000, Dennis wrote:
                  > John, ever since reading Stambaugh's good skiffs, I've wondered about
                  > Jordan's Footloose. Care to give a testimonial? I'd be interested in
                  > hearing what you have to say about her.
                  > > http://www.jordanwoodboats.com/

                  --
                  John <jkohnen@...>
                  http://www.boat-links.com/
                  Show me a man who has enjoyed his school days and I'll show you a
                  bully and a bore. <Robert Morley>
                • jkohnen@boat-links.com
                  I suppose I should ban Craig for mentioning a Chapelle boat on an Atkin list, but since I just raved about my Jordan skiff, I guess I ll let him off this time.
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 25, 2004
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                    I suppose I should ban Craig for mentioning a Chapelle boat on an Atkin
                    list, but since I just raved about my Jordan skiff, I guess I'll let him off
                    this time. ;o) Thanks for the heads-up. Can you let us know when the skiff
                    appears in Duckworks?

                    On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 07:42:54 -0500, COD wrote:
                    > Stay tuned for a Chapelle skiff from 1956 - should appear in both MAIB and
                    > in Duckworks. 14' by 5.

                    --
                    John <jkohnen@...>
                    http://www.boat-links.com/
                    A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought.
                    <Lord Peter Wimsey>
                  • John Ewing
                    My Bolger Surf has a loose-footed sprit sail. What s this about death rolls ? Doesn t sound at all good to a chicken-sh*t sailor like me. What happens there?
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 25, 2004
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                      My Bolger Surf has a loose-footed sprit sail. What's this about 'death rolls'? Doesn't sound at all good to a chicken-sh*t sailor like me. What happens there?

                      John
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: jkohnen@...
                      To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 8:22 PM
                      Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Sailing Skiffs


                      <snip> The loose-footed sail's weak point is running downwind, but I've
                      never experienced the "death roll" I've heard about people getting into with
                      other loose-footed sailed boats...


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Hugo Tyson
                      It can t be loose footed(as such) if its got a sprit boom, I think loose footed really means without any boom/sprit on the sail. The simple sprit as Bolger
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 26, 2004
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                        It can't be loose footed(as such) if its got a sprit boom, I think loose footed really means without any boom/sprit on the sail. The simple sprit as Bolger uses on may of his sailing designs is very efficient and economic and won't cause "Death Rolls". Loose footed sails (un boomed) belly out when running down wind and can cause a boat to get up a rhythmic roll that can get out of control resulting in capsize.

                        Hugo Tyson. Tasmania, Australia. Ex "Teal" Dinghy owner/sailor.

                        John Ewing <john.ewing@...> wrote:
                        My Bolger Surf has a loose-footed sprit sail. What's this about 'death rolls'? Doesn't sound at all good to a chicken-sh*t sailor like me. What happens there?

                        John
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: jkohnen@...
                        To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 8:22 PM
                        Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Sailing Skiffs


                        <snip> The loose-footed sail's weak point is running downwind, but I've
                        never experienced the "death roll" I've heard about people getting into with
                        other loose-footed sailed boats...


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                      • craig o'donnell
                        ... Well, Loose Footed means only attached to the boom at the tack and the clew. Boomless means no boom of any sort. -- Craig O Donnell Sinepuxent Ancestors
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 26, 2004
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                          >I think loose footed really means without any boom/sprit on the sail.

                          Well, Loose Footed means only attached to the boom at the tack and the
                          clew. "Boomless" means no boom of any sort.
                          --
                          Craig O'Donnell
                          Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
                          <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
                          The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
                          The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
                          Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
                          American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
                          Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
                          _________________________________

                          -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
                          -- Macintosh kinda guy
                          Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
                          _________________________________
                        • craig o'donnell
                          ... Will do. Aww, mon, I admitted that Atkin Pere and Fils write rings around HIC. Don t know when it will show up in MAIB. Like I said, if Robb White gets
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 26, 2004
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                            >I suppose I should ban Craig for mentioning a Chapelle boat on an Atkin
                            >list, but since I just raved about my Jordan skiff, I guess I'll let him off
                            >this time. ;o) Thanks for the heads-up. Can you let us know when the skiff
                            >appears in Duckworks?


                            Will do. Aww, 'mon, I admitted that Atkin Pere and Fils write rings around HIC.

                            Don't know when it will show up in MAIB. Like I said, if Robb White gets
                            tendinitis and we get a break from 1/3 of the magazine authored by the
                            Gremlin of the Gulf.....
                            --
                            Craig O'Donnell
                            Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
                            <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
                            The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
                            The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
                            Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
                            American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
                            Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
                            _________________________________

                            -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
                            -- Macintosh kinda guy
                            Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
                            _________________________________
                          • jkohnen@boat-links.com
                            Of course I was just joshing Craig. Discussions of boats designed by someone other than an Atkin are perfectly appropriate here. The only people I ve ever
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 26, 2004
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                              Of course I was just joshing Craig. Discussions of boats designed by someone
                              other than an Atkin are perfectly appropriate here. The only people I've
                              ever banned in my career managing Yahoo mailing lists (this is my second)
                              were spammers.

                              On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 07:24:04 -0500, COD wrote:
                              > >I suppose I should ban Craig...

                              --
                              John <jkohnen@...>
                              http://www.boat-links.com/
                              All the troubles of man come from his not knowing how to sit still.
                              <Blaise Pascal>
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