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Time to build a bigger boat like Fore and Aft?

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  • JohnA
    Hi there... I m in the middle of building Cabin Boy , my first wooden boat. The next will probably be something sensible, like Little Bear , but I can t help
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 26, 2009
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      Hi there... I'm in the middle of building "Cabin Boy", my first wooden boat. The next will probably be something sensible, like "Little Bear", but I can't help wondering about the cost/time to build something like "Fore and Aft". I was talking to an experienced builder today, and he was saying that wood hasn't been this cheap for years, and if I ever wanted to build a 'real' boat, it's going to be hard to find a better time...

      Has anyone on this list actually built a boat like Fore and Aft? Care to venture an estimate on the cost of materials, to within a few thousand? Assuming a simple, 'traditional' cabin? Not a gold-plater, in other words.

      For time, I'm guessing 2000 hours or so. Am I even close?

      Such a lovely boat...

      -- John
    • bakerssails
      ... it has taken me 3days a week for 1year to where i am see pics of Gallifery i think around 5000 hours in total will be about right i m doing 4 days a week
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 27, 2009
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        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "JohnA" <jalmberg@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi there... I'm in the middle of building "Cabin Boy", my first wooden boat. The next will probably be something sensible, like "Little Bear", but I can't help wondering about the cost/time to build something like "Fore and Aft". I was talking to an experienced builder today, and he was saying that wood hasn't been this cheap for years, and if I ever wanted to build a 'real' boat, it's going to be hard to find a better time...
        >
        > Has anyone on this list actually built a boat like Fore and Aft? Care to venture an estimate on the cost of materials, to within a few thousand? Assuming a simple, 'traditional' cabin? Not a gold-plater, in other words.
        >
        > For time, I'm guessing 2000 hours or so. Am I even close?
        >
        > Such a lovely boat...
        >
        > -- John
        >hi i,m building tally ho major at the moment the hull has cost me about$8000 -$9000 here in australia paying around $1.50 per super foot
        it has taken me 3days a week for 1year to where i am see pics of Gallifery i think around 5000 hours in total will be about right i'm doing 4 days a week on it know make no mistake these type of boats are masses of work cheers Adrian
      • second_floor_loft
        John: It would seem to me that Fore An Aft would be a giant step from your current project as a second boat. Size, cost, methods, all at once. That s the deep
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 28, 2009
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          John:
          It would seem to me that Fore An' Aft would be a giant step from your current project as a second boat. Size, cost, methods, all at once. That's the deep end of the pool for sure. Not knowing your criteria for a larger boat, I wonder if you might consider something like, for instance "Red Onion (flat bottom centerboard type) of it's sister Wild Oats (V-bottom centerboard type) as an intermediate step. There are many others in the Atkin catalog... I guess I always wonder, when considering a project; "Where am I going to build it?". Fore An' Aft is a very large boat. Perhaps as a sort of benchmark, look at the thread on the WBF, Building Peterson's "Susan" by RobB. He's up to post #10 now I think. Goes back several years and is very informative.

          Hope this helps.
          Sincerely:
          Paul T

          --- On Sat, 11/28/09, bakerssails <bakerssails@...> wrote:

          From: bakerssails <bakerssails@...>
          Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Time to build a bigger boat like Fore and Aft?
          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, November 28, 2009, 1:47 AM







           



           


             
               
               
               



          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, "JohnA" <jalmberg@.. .> wrote:

          >

          > Hi there... I'm in the middle of building "Cabin Boy", my first wooden boat. The next will probably be something sensible, like "Little Bear", but I can't help wondering about the cost/time to build something like "Fore and Aft". I was talking to an experienced builder today, and he was saying that wood hasn't been this cheap for years, and if I ever wanted to build a 'real' boat, it's going to be hard to find a better time...

          >

          > Has anyone on this list actually built a boat like Fore and Aft? Care to venture an estimate on the cost of materials, to within a few thousand? Assuming a simple, 'traditional' cabin? Not a gold-plater, in other words.

          >

          > For time, I'm guessing 2000 hours or so. Am I even close?

          >

          > Such a lovely boat...

          >

          > -- John

          >hi i,m building tally ho major at the moment the hull has cost me about$8000 -$9000 here in australia paying around $1.50 per super foot

          it has taken me 3days a week for 1year to where i am see pics of Gallifery i think around 5000 hours in total will be about right i'm doing 4 days a week on it know make no mistake these type of boats are masses of work cheers Adrian





             
               

             
             






           
        • second_floor_loft
          Oops!...Correction.. RodB, not RobB. Senior moment. ... From: second_floor_loft Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Time to build a
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 28, 2009
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            Oops!...Correction.. RodB, not RobB. Senior moment.

            --- On Sat, 11/28/09, second_floor_loft <second_floor_loft@...> wrote:

            From: second_floor_loft <second_floor_loft@...>
            Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Time to build a bigger boat like Fore and Aft?
            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, November 28, 2009, 8:06 AM

             

            John:
            It would seem to me that Fore An' Aft would be a giant step from your current project as a second boat. Size, cost, methods, all at once. That's the deep end of the pool for sure. Not knowing your criteria for a larger boat, I wonder if you might consider something like, for instance "Red Onion (flat bottom centerboard type) of it's sister Wild Oats (V-bottom centerboard type) as an intermediate step. There are many others in the Atkin catalog... I guess I always wonder, when considering a project; "Where am I going to build it?". Fore An' Aft is a very large boat. Perhaps as a sort of benchmark, look at the thread on the WBF, Building Peterson's "Susan" by RobB. He's up to post #10 now I think. Goes back several years and is very informative.

            Hope this helps.
            Sincerely:
            Paul T

            --- On Sat, 11/28/09, bakerssails <bakerssails@ yahoo.com. au> wrote:

            From: bakerssails <bakerssails@ yahoo.com. au>
            Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Time to build a bigger boat like Fore and Aft?
            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
            Date: Saturday, November 28, 2009, 1:47 AM

             

             

               
                 
                 
                 

            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, "JohnA" <jalmberg@.. .> wrote:

            >

            > Hi there... I'm in the middle of building "Cabin Boy", my first wooden boat. The next will probably be something sensible, like "Little Bear", but I can't help wondering about the cost/time to build something like "Fore and Aft". I was talking to an experienced builder today, and he was saying that wood hasn't been this cheap for years, and if I ever wanted to build a 'real' boat, it's going to be hard to find a better time...

            >

            > Has anyone on this list actually built a boat like Fore and Aft? Care to venture an estimate on the cost of materials, to within a few thousand? Assuming a simple, 'traditional' cabin? Not a gold-plater, in other words.

            >

            > For time, I'm guessing 2000 hours or so. Am I even close?

            >

            > Such a lovely boat...

            >

            > -- John

            >hi i,m building tally ho major at the moment the hull has cost me about$8000 -$9000 here in australia paying around $1.50 per super foot

            it has taken me 3days a week for 1year to where i am see pics of Gallifery i think around 5000 hours in total will be about right i'm doing 4 days a week on it know make no mistake these type of boats are masses of work cheers Adrian

               
                 

               
               

             


          • JohnA
            ... Hi Adrian, Wow... I guess you have answered the question, how much space do you need to build a big boat in. Not much, according to your pictures. 5000
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 28, 2009
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              > >hi i,m building tally ho major at the moment the hull has cost me about$8000 -$9000 here in australia paying around $1.50 per super foot
              > it has taken me 3days a week for 1year to where i am see pics of Gallifery i think around 5000 hours in total will be about right i'm doing 4 days a week on it know make no mistake these type of boats are masses of work cheers Adrian

              Hi Adrian,

              Wow... I guess you have answered the question, how much space do you need to build a big boat in. Not much, according to your pictures.

              5000 hours is a lot of hours. I was just re-reading the old LF Herreshoff story about the building of the H28 over the course of a winter. The 'Man' in the story seemed to work on it full time, and had an experienced full time helper. So maybe between the two of them they put 3000 hours into it.

              That sounds about right, since Tally Ho Major must be nearly twice as big, displacement wise.

              Makes you wonder how anyone ever built these boats, but I guess you've answered that question as well: one stick at a time.

              My hat is off to you Adrian. She looks great. What kind of experience did you have when you started?

              -- John
            • JohnA
              ... Paul, Building Cabin Boy has taught me three things, so far: 1. building even a simple boat is very time consuming, 2. but it s not as hard as it looks,
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 28, 2009
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                > It would seem to me that Fore An' Aft would be a giant step from your current project as a second boat. Size, cost, methods, all at once. That's the deep end of the pool for sure. Not knowing your criteria for a larger boat, I wonder if you might consider something like, for instance "Red Onion (flat bottom centerboard type) of it's sister Wild Oats (V-bottom centerboard type) as an intermediate step. There are many others in the Atkin catalog... I guess I always wonder, when considering a project; "Where am I going to build it?". Fore An' Aft is a very large boat. Perhaps as a sort of benchmark, look at the thread on the WBF, Building Peterson's "Susan" by RobB. He's up to post #10 now I think. Goes back several years and is very informative.

                Paul,

                Building "Cabin Boy" has taught me three things, so far:

                1. building even a simple boat is very time consuming,
                2. but it's not as hard as it looks, at first,
                3. and it is extremely interesting and a lot of fun

                I'm looking for something I can build in a year or so, with help from my very handy, athletic, and energetic wife. I had been thinking "Little Bear", but having recently read LF Herreshoff's story of building H28 in a winter, I started wondering if my absolute dream boat, "Fore And Aft", was doable in 2 winters?

                I'm guessing it probably is... just.

                Anyway, this is all dreaming, obviously. Still need to finish my first love, "Cabin Boy" :-)

                Will check out the thread you mentioned on WBF.

                Thanks: John
              • john.frodigh
                Hello, I am restoring the 2nd Fore an Aft, Scarlet Queen, then Pilgrim, pictures are on the Atkin site, I can tell you in a nutshell that the timbers are all
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 28, 2009
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                  Hello, I am restoring the 2nd Fore an Aft, Scarlet Queen, then Pilgrim, pictures are on the Atkin site, I can tell you in a nutshell that the timbers are all mega sized, when designed she had scantlings like the Norwegian rescue saliboats. I totally recomend building one, however if you want to save some time, Bruce Elfstrom has the masts and rigging for Ben Bow, sister to F&A, and the keel may still be available as well in CT, the mast alone is like a telephone pole, Bruce started Wooden boat rescue foundation

                  John Frodigh

                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "bakerssails" <bakerssails@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "JohnA" <jalmberg@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi there... I'm in the middle of building "Cabin Boy", my first wooden boat. The next will probably be something sensible, like "Little Bear", but I can't help wondering about the cost/time to build something like "Fore and Aft". I was talking to an experienced builder today, and he was saying that wood hasn't been this cheap for years, and if I ever wanted to build a 'real' boat, it's going to be hard to find a better time...
                  > >
                  > > Has anyone on this list actually built a boat like Fore and Aft? Care to venture an estimate on the cost of materials, to within a few thousand? Assuming a simple, 'traditional' cabin? Not a gold-plater, in other words.
                  > >
                  > > For time, I'm guessing 2000 hours or so. Am I even close?
                  > >
                  > > Such a lovely boat...
                  > >
                  > > -- John
                  > >hi i,m building tally ho major at the moment the hull has cost me about$8000 -$9000 here in australia paying around $1.50 per super foot
                  > it has taken me 3days a week for 1year to where i am see pics of Gallifery i think around 5000 hours in total will be about right i'm doing 4 days a week on it know make no mistake these type of boats are masses of work cheers Adrian
                  >
                • JohnA
                  ... Hi John, I m familiar with the photos, of course. Beautiful boat in her day. Don t encourage me, please! The more sensible members of this list have been
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 30, 2009
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                    > Hello, I am restoring the 2nd Fore an Aft, Scarlet Queen, then Pilgrim, pictures are on the Atkin site, I can tell you in a nutshell that the timbers are all mega sized, when designed she had scantlings like the Norwegian rescue saliboats. I totally recomend building one, however if you want to save some time, Bruce Elfstrom has the masts and rigging for Ben Bow, sister to F&A, and the keel may still be available as well in CT, the mast alone is like a telephone pole, Bruce started Wooden boat rescue foundation
                    >
                    > John Frodigh

                    Hi John,

                    I'm familiar with the photos, of course. Beautiful boat in her day.

                    Don't encourage me, please! The more sensible members of this list have been trying to talk me down from Fore and Aft, to something simpler. And they are probably correct... Maybe "Little Maid of Kent" :-)

                    Seriously, I'm focused on finishing Cabin Boy and this week in Florida (away from the shop) has allowed me to re-read "Building Small Boats". It's amazing how much I missed the first time through!

                    -- John
                  • JohnA
                    ... Hi John, I m familiar with the photos, of course. Beautiful boat in her day. Don t encourage me, please! The more sensible members of this list have been
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 30, 2009
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                      > Hello, I am restoring the 2nd Fore an Aft, Scarlet Queen, then Pilgrim, pictures are on the Atkin site, I can tell you in a nutshell that the timbers are all mega sized, when designed she had scantlings like the Norwegian rescue saliboats. I totally recomend building one, however if you want to save some time, Bruce Elfstrom has the masts and rigging for Ben Bow, sister to F&A, and the keel may still be available as well in CT, the mast alone is like a telephone pole, Bruce started Wooden boat rescue foundation
                      >
                      > John Frodigh

                      Hi John,

                      I'm familiar with the photos, of course. Beautiful boat in her day.

                      Don't encourage me, please! The more sensible members of this list have been trying to talk me down from Fore and Aft, to something simpler. And they are probably correct... Maybe "Little Maid of Kent" :-)

                      Seriously, I'm focused on finishing Cabin Boy and this week in Florida (away from the shop) has allowed me to re-read "Building Small Boats". It's amazing how much I missed the first time through!

                      -- John
                    • JohnA
                      ... Oh... just realized I have a Photoshopped picture of Scarlet Queen as my desktop picture. Shows you what a fan I am :-) -- John
                      Message 10 of 10 , Nov 30, 2009
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                        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "john.frodigh" <John.Frodigh@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello, I am restoring the 2nd Fore an Aft, Scarlet Queen, then Pilgrim, pictures are on the Atkin site,

                        Oh... just realized I have a Photoshopped picture of Scarlet Queen as my desktop picture. Shows you what a fan I am :-)

                        -- John
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