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Epoxy

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  • cupofjoeonthefirstdog
    I m curious what Epoxy people are using other than West Systems & System 3? Anything inexpensive and good? Where is a good place to buy it near Vancouver or
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 17, 2009
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      I'm curious what Epoxy people are using other than West Systems & System 3? Anything inexpensive and good? Where is a good place to buy it near Vancouver or Seattle??

      Thanks JD
    • Michael MacDonald
      I use East Epoxy as well as West Epoxy. I just got a gallon of East Epoxy s resin from Noah s in Ontario for C$84 vs C$100 at Noahs for a gallon of West Epoxy
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 22, 2009
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        I use East Epoxy as well as West Epoxy. I just got a gallon of East Epoxy's resin from Noah's in Ontario for C$84 vs C$100 at Noahs for a gallon of West Epoxy resin. It also seems to be squirt compatible with West's products.

        I was working with a couple other guys building dinghies a couple winters ago and when a friend ran out of West hardener he just moved his pump to the can of East hardener and kept working using West Resin. A different time we ran out of West Resin and used East Resin with West hardener. I've been using the dinghy for a couple years and it is standing up very well so the mixed manufacturer epoxy seems to be fine.

        I later talked to a rep of a company offering East products and he agreed they were squirt compatible.

        I can get East Epoxy out of Noah's in Ontario delivered to New Brunswick cheaper than I can buy West locally (and East isn't available locally) or from the Binnacle offering free shipping from Halifax. This is including freight charges.

        Sorry if this sounds too much like a commercial endorsement but give'em credit where credit is due.

        mike

        --
        Please do not use this EMail address. Please use Mike@... as your address to us. It will always get to our current email account. Just don't be surprised if you get email back from one of three or four different (outbound) addresses.


        >
        >From: cupofjoeonthefirstdog <cupofjoeonthefirstdog@...>
        >To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
        >Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 2:58:38 AM
        >Subject: [AtkinBoats] Epoxy
        >
        >
        >I'm curious what Epoxy people are using other than West Systems & System 3? Anything inexpensive and good? Where is a good place to buy it near Vancouver or Seattle??
        >
        >>Thanks JD
        >
        >
        > > >


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      • Tom
        ... MAS epoxy in a kit 219.50 for 3 gal gloves stirrers pumps and cups. What more could you want.
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 22, 2009
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          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cupofjoeonthefirstdog" <cupofjoeonthefirstdog@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'm curious what Epoxy people are using other than West Systems & System 3? Anything inexpensive and good? Where is a good place to buy it near Vancouver or Seattle??
          >
          > Thanks JD
          >


          MAS epoxy in a kit 219.50 for 3 gal gloves stirrers pumps and cups. What more could you want.

          http://stores.infinityfrp.com/-strse-MAS-EPOXY-RESINS-cln-KITS/Categories.bok

          ............................Tom C
        • Moose
          Mixing Epoxy hardener and resin is not a good idea. I have pumps melt after only a few minutes doing the same. This was with hardens from different epoxy
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 23, 2009
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            Mixing Epoxy hardener and resin is not a good idea. I have pumps melt after only a few minutes doing the same. This was with hardens from different epoxy systems but the same manufacturer. I have been a shipwright for thirty-six years building composite wooden boats and now I'm teaching and this is the last thing I would ever recommend. It could lead to major problems with the structure for its life.
            This is coming from a person who has pushed the limits many times with composites but I would never mix epoxy resin systems.
            Speak to the manufacturer not the sales man.

            moose

            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Michael MacDonald <millenniumodyssey@...> wrote:
            >
            > I use East Epoxy as well as West Epoxy. I just got a gallon of East Epoxy's resin from Noah's in Ontario for C$84 vs C$100 at Noahs for a gallon of West Epoxy resin. It also seems to be squirt compatible with West's products.
            >
            > I was working with a couple other guys building dinghies a couple winters ago and when a friend ran out of West hardener he just moved his pump to the can of East hardener and kept working using West Resin. A different time we ran out of West Resin and used East Resin with West hardener. I've been using the dinghy for a couple years and it is standing up very well so the mixed manufacturer epoxy seems to be fine.
            >
            > I later talked to a rep of a company offering East products and he agreed they were squirt compatible.
            >
            > I can get East Epoxy out of Noah's in Ontario delivered to New Brunswick cheaper than I can buy West locally (and East isn't available locally) or from the Binnacle offering free shipping from Halifax. This is including freight charges.
            >
            > Sorry if this sounds too much like a commercial endorsement but give'em credit where credit is due.
            >
            > mike
            >
            > --
            > Please do not use this EMail address. Please use Mike@... as your address to us. It will always get to our current email account. Just don't be surprised if you get email back from one of three or four different (outbound) addresses.
            >
            >
            > >
            > >From: cupofjoeonthefirstdog <cupofjoeonthefirstdog@...>
            > >To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            > >Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 2:58:38 AM
            > >Subject: [AtkinBoats] Epoxy
            > >
            > >
            > >I'm curious what Epoxy people are using other than West Systems & System 3? Anything inexpensive and good? Where is a good place to buy it near Vancouver or Seattle??
            > >
            > >>Thanks JD
            > >
            > >
            > > > >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________________________
            > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
            >
            > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
            >
          • Brandon F
            AeroMarine out of San Diego. $74 for a 1 and 1/2 gallon kit. No blush. Good stuff. http://www.jgreer.com/ Brandon
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 23, 2009
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              AeroMarine out of San Diego. $74 for a 1 and 1/2 gallon kit. No blush. Good stuff.
              http://www.jgreer.com/

              Brandon

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <calfee20@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cupofjoeonthefirstdog" <cupofjoeonthefirstdog@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I'm curious what Epoxy people are using other than West Systems & System 3? Anything inexpensive and good? Where is a good place to buy it near Vancouver or Seattle??
              > >
              > > Thanks JD
              > >
              >
              >
              > MAS epoxy in a kit 219.50 for 3 gal gloves stirrers pumps and cups. What more could you want.
              >
              > http://stores.infinityfrp.com/-strse-MAS-EPOXY-RESINS-cln-KITS/Categories.bok
              >
              > ............................Tom C
              >
            • thomasp118
              I have used AeroMarine (am using it right now). Very good stuff. I also use West System and have also used products from Epoxyusa.com Dont bother with West
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 23, 2009
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                I have used AeroMarine (am using it right now). Very good stuff. I also use West System and have also used products from Epoxyusa.com

                Dont bother with West System. It is highly viscous and does not seem to penetrate as deeply into wood as the AeroMarine. Once you thin West System, significant strength has been lost. West System also produces amine blush, which must be removed before painting, recoating with epoxy, etc...

                AeroMarine (jgreer.com) is great. AeroMarine epoxy dries crystal clear, and NO AMINE BLUSH! You wont need to clean the amine blush off after the surface has cured. As with any epoxy, you will need to protect cured epoxy from U.V. rays, using paint, varnish, etc...


                epoxyusa.com has highly specialized products that are great for particular applications (I tried their corro-coat with ceramic plates and kevlar reinforcement - it would not scratch using a screwdriver and hand-pressure). I also used their ground walnut shells to product non-skid for decks... worked very well also. Their epoxies are very good too!



                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon F" <brandonfordus@...> wrote:
                >
                > AeroMarine out of San Diego. $74 for a 1 and 1/2 gallon kit. No blush. Good stuff.
                > http://www.jgreer.com/
                >
                > Brandon
                >
                > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <calfee20@> wrote:
                > >
                > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cupofjoeonthefirstdog" <cupofjoeonthefirstdog@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I'm curious what Epoxy people are using other than West Systems & System 3? Anything inexpensive and good? Where is a good place to buy it near Vancouver or Seattle??
                > > >
                > > > Thanks JD
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > MAS epoxy in a kit 219.50 for 3 gal gloves stirrers pumps and cups. What more could you want.
                > >
                > > http://stores.infinityfrp.com/-strse-MAS-EPOXY-RESINS-cln-KITS/Categories.bok
                > >
                > > ............................Tom C
                > >
                >
              • scottdc555
                I have had good luck with Raka. http://www.raka.com/
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 24, 2009
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                  I have had good luck with Raka.
                  http://www.raka.com/

                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cupofjoeonthefirstdog" <cupofjoeonthefirstdog@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm curious what Epoxy people are using other than West Systems & System 3? Anything inexpensive and good? Where is a good place to buy it near Vancouver or Seattle??
                  >
                  > Thanks JD
                  >
                • Jon n Wanda
                  JD Being in Vancouver Wa. and having used many brands I would recomend Aromarine out of SanDiago. It is always fresh stock and great quality at one of the best
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 24, 2009
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                    JD Being in Vancouver Wa. and having used many brands I would recomend Aromarine out of SanDiago. It is always fresh stock and great quality at one of the best prices you can find anywhere.
                    http://www.jgreer.com/
                    This place has the best price for addatives.
                    http://www.mertons.com/

                    Jon

                    > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cupofjoeonthefirstdog" <cupofjoeonthefirstdog@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I'm curious what Epoxy people are using other than West Systems & System 3? Anything inexpensive and good? Where is a good place to buy it near Vancouver or Seattle??
                    > >
                    > > Thanks JD
                    > >
                    >
                  • cupofjoeonthefirstdog
                    I appreciate all the input, Thank you all:)
                    Message 9 of 17 , Sep 25, 2009
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                      I appreciate all the input, Thank you all:)

                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon n Wanda" <windyjon@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > JD Being in Vancouver Wa. and having used many brands I would recomend Aromarine out of SanDiago. It is always fresh stock and great quality at one of the best prices you can find anywhere.
                      > http://www.jgreer.com/
                      > This place has the best price for addatives.
                      > http://www.mertons.com/
                      >
                      > Jon
                      >
                      > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cupofjoeonthefirstdog" <cupofjoeonthefirstdog@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I'm curious what Epoxy people are using other than West Systems & System 3? Anything inexpensive and good? Where is a good place to buy it near Vancouver or Seattle??
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks JD
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • titanicslim
                      ... I, too! Dave
                      Message 10 of 17 , Sep 25, 2009
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                        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cupofjoeonthefirstdog" <cupofjoeonthefirstdog@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I appreciate all the input, Thank you all:)

                        I, too!

                        Dave

                        >
                        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon n Wanda" <windyjon@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > JD Being in Vancouver Wa. and having used many brands I would recomend Aromarine out of SanDiago. It is always fresh stock and great quality at one of the best prices you can find anywhere.
                        > > http://www.jgreer.com/
                        > > This place has the best price for addatives.
                        > > http://www.mertons.com/
                        > >
                        > > Jon
                        > >
                        > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cupofjoeonthefirstdog" <cupofjoeonthefirstdog@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I'm curious what Epoxy people are using other than West Systems & System 3? Anything inexpensive and good? Where is a good place to buy it near Vancouver or Seattle??
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Thanks JD
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Jon n Wanda
                        If you have not used a epoxy system that is not with Slow-Meddum and fast hardners the best way to controle the set time is controle the temp they are stored
                        Message 11 of 17 , Sep 25, 2009
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                          If you have not used a epoxy system that is not with Slow-Meddum and fast hardners the best way to controle the set time is controle the temp they are stored at. After mixing larger batches pour into a paint tray with through away linner (they can be used more then once). Having it in a shallow larger area slows the set time as aposed to leaving it in a deep pot. Paper pots work well for mixing useing a cordless drill and a tile grout mixing blade with a ring around the bottom. Clean mixing blade in solvent bucket with lid to cover after. Mix slow pot only half full. Just a few useful hints.

                          Jon

                          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "titanicslim" <titanicslim@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "cupofjoeonthefirstdog" <cupofjoeonthefirstdog@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I appreciate all the input, Thank you all:)
                          >
                          > I, too!
                          >
                          > Dave
                          >
                          > >
                          > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon n Wanda" <windyjon@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > JD Being in Vancouver Wa. and having used many brands I would recomend Aromarine out of SanDiago. It is always fresh stock and great quality at one of the best prices you can find anywhere.
                          > > > http://www.jgreer.com/
                          > > > This place has the best price for addatives.
                          > > > http://www.mertons.com/
                          > > >
                          > > > Jon
                        • Jerry
                          I am just getting started building the Florence Oakland.This is my first boat project and I need some recomendations for an Epoxy to use to bond the
                          Message 12 of 17 , Mar 4, 2011
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                            I am just getting started building the Florence Oakland.This is my first boat project and I need some recomendations for an Epoxy to use to bond the deadwood.So anybody know what sticks whiteoak really good?
                          • JohnA
                            ... You might want to check out Resorcinol. http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?108488-Laminating-white-oak-w-Resorcinol
                            Message 13 of 17 , Mar 4, 2011
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                              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry" <gonzochfeng@...> wrote:
                              > I am just getting started building the Florence Oakland.This is my first boat project and I need some recomendations for an Epoxy to use to bond the deadwood.So anybody know what sticks whiteoak really good?

                              You might want to check out Resorcinol.

                              http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?108488-Laminating-white-oak-w-Resorcinol
                            • William E. Parker
                              When I got my Florence Oakland I replaced the deadwood. To glue the deadwood I used WEST System with a small amount of colodial silica to thicken it. Opinions
                              Message 14 of 17 , Mar 5, 2011
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                                When I got my Florence Oakland I replaced the deadwood.  To glue the deadwood I used WEST System with a small amount of colodial silica to thicken it. Opinions differ on how to set the lead into the deadwood.  Some think the lead should be bonded with epoxy and the entire assembly coated with epoxy then fiberglassed using epoxy.  That is what I did.  Others think the joint between the lead and the deadwood should be an elastomeric substance, anything from silicone (very expensive in the quantity needed) to roofing tar.  If you talk to the WEST people about deadwood, they admit that even WEST system epoxy can only keep so much moisture out of a fin that is in the water all the time.  That is why I used epoxy for the joints as well as the fiberglass, and to bond the lead to the deadwood.  One thing that should be done as part of the project is to coat the keelbolt holes in the deadwood, red lead if going traditional, epoxy of not.  Remember, water gets in the bilge as rainwater or condensation, and finds its way to the lowest point.

                                 

                                I have great respect for resorcinol, and it certainly does a great job on big structures.  I used it on my mast.  The problem isn’t simply the structure, but controlling moisture in the wood.  For now, I can see nothing better for that than epoxy.  One thing I didn’t know until after I made my keel structure is that stainless steel does not remain stainless if it isn’t exposed to the air.  Keelbolts should be bronze for this reason. 

                                 

                                Best,

                                Bill

                                 

                                From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
                                Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 9:07 PM
                                To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [AtkinBoats] Epoxy

                                 

                                 

                                I am just getting started building the Florence Oakland.This is my first boat project and I need some recomendations for an Epoxy to use to bond the deadwood.So anybody know what sticks whiteoak really good?

                              • JohnA
                                ... I thought that resorcinol was more waterproof than epoxy? Also, I ve never heard of any issues with oak. Seems like the perfect solution for an oak
                                Message 15 of 17 , Mar 5, 2011
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                                  > I have great respect for resorcinol, and it certainly does a great job on
                                  > big structures. I used it on my mast. The problem isn't simply the
                                  > structure, but controlling moisture in the wood. For now, I can see nothing
                                  > better for that than epoxy.

                                  I thought that resorcinol was more waterproof than epoxy? Also, I've never heard of any issues with oak. Seems like the perfect solution for an oak backbone.
                                • William E. Parker
                                  Resorcinol is waterproof, no doubt about it. I was not worrying about the joint, just the question of rot. Oak probably will not rot; it will swell up and
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Mar 5, 2011
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                                    Resorcinol is waterproof, no doubt about it.  I was not worrying about the joint, just the question of rot.  Oak probably will not rot; it will swell up and dry out with the cycle of launching and pulling most of us in the North have to deal with.  If the boat is to be in the water continuously, and you have a good bottom paint, it probably isn’t a question.  I remember vividly looking at a folkboat that had been on its cradle over the winter in Michigan.  You could see through parts of the deadwood.  The owner saw me looking and said “Don’t worry, it’ll soak up.”  I have always worried.

                                     

                                     

                                    From: Jerry Miller [mailto:gonzochfeng@...]
                                    Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 9:23 AM
                                    To: wmeparker@...
                                    Subject: RE: [AtkinBoats] Epoxy

                                     

                                    Thanks for the advice.Seems like once you get started with a with this thing all kinds of conciderations pop up you didn't really think about before.I do plan on glassing the entire outside of the hull.

                                     For putting the lead to the deadwood I had thought about 3-M's marine sealant 5200.I don't know if you have ever used this product but it is some pretty nasty stuff.I worked for Gulfstar yachts in St. Petersburg Florida back in the early 80's.I was 0ne of two mechanics that installed the engines and propulsion systems in all thier motor yachts.We used the 5200 as a sealant more than a bonding agent between the stainless steel strut and the fiberglass hull.We misaligned a strut once and didn't catch it untill after the 5200 had set up.We tried everything to get that stuff loose.Finally we inserted a 10 ft. section of shaft material into the cutless bearing and twisted that thing off.It tore the fiberglass out of the hull but the bond between the strut and hull never broke.Man did we get in trouble for that.

                                     

                                  • Brandon F
                                    ... Hear, hear! Same applies to chain plates and everything else that goes through the deck. Galvanized steel works too and is a little easier to come by.
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Mar 5, 2011
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                                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "William E. Parker" <wmeparker@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >stainless steel does not remain stainless if it isn't
                                      > exposed to the air. Keelbolts should be bronze for this reason.
                                      >
                                      Hear, hear! Same applies to chain plates and everything else that goes through the deck.

                                      Galvanized steel works too and is a little easier to come by.

                                      Brandon
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