Re: Thistle and raised deck
- Thanks for the info. I noticed differences in the various Archer type designs. I'll be careful about what gets called what, too. The higher priced boats give me ideas about what to do with interiors and non-structural items. I would like to be a build per plans person. The thousands of hours and tuning that go into something should be respected. I have plans to a very neat prewar cabin cruiser that I would build if I wanted to deal with a motor. I've also lived without refrigerators and water heaters (rigged up a solar water heater with coiled hose and it worked great) before in a small space. It just would be nice to have some headroom, at least, between the beams. I can live with that. I have more information on the way about Thistle and Fram. Fram may be too big, but I'll just have to see what both look like. I can't wait for my Colin Archer book to get here. There are supposed to be drawings in this book, but from what I read, Colin Archer didn't make a set of plans as a boatyard would see them. I'm not going to be a designer so I'll have to just choose the best design I can find. Designers and others have talked at length about the Colin Archer design and how a change somewhere can affect his idea. So far, I feel pretty comfortable with the Atkin version. I'm still going to be reading alot and I thank any that can share their experience. This boat is very interesting and I just like the looks of it and the safe Atkin version is compelling. Also, this boat will travel and I won't be in a hurry. I'm particular about what I travel in.
--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
> Be careful when you hear a boat being called a "Colin Archer," that one
> for sale wasn't designed or built by Colin Archer, who died in 1921. The
> boat in the ad was built in 1991 and designed by somw guy named Janssen!
> <sigh> Unfortunately, many double-ended boats built long after Colin
> Archer's demise get described as "Colin Archers." Some of them are
> Scandinavian fishing and work boats designed after Archer's death, but
> incorporating some of his ideas for reforming and improving the types,
> some are pleasure boats that may just _look_ kinda like a Colin Archer
> double-ender, a few might be newer boats built to the old designs. Not
> all double-enders are the same...
> William and John Atkin acknowledge the basis for their seagoing
> double-enders, but intelligently "Atkinized" their boats for better
> performance. Although the Atkin double-enders aren't Colin Archer designs
> (even Eric was tweaked a bit), they retain most of the seaworthiness of
> the type and are more suitable for pleasure sailing than their fishing and
> rescue boat ancestors.
> Using hatches and/or skylights to provide a few places where you can stand
> up tall and stretch is a much better idea than raising the whole deck of a
> seagoing boat. One of the great writing yacht designers (Francis
> Herreshoff?) wrote that all the things worth doing in the cabin of a
> sailboat, you do either sitting or lying down. I can think of one thing he
> missed -- pulling up your pants -- but that can be done under a hatch or
> skylight. <g>
> A few weeks ago I was wandering around the Charleston (Oregon) shipyard
> when I was shocked to see that a beautiful old sailboat was being cut up.
> I'd long admired the boat, but had hated to see it dying from neglect at
> the dock (it hadn't been hauled in 20 years!). It had been sold a while
> back, and I had hopes the new owner would give the girl a new life. But
> there he was sawing her up! He said that while the boat was sound below
> the waterline, fresh water had done so much damage to the topsides he
> couldn't afford to fix her, and his conscience wouldn't let him pass her
> on to another starry eyed dreamer. <sigh> We talked about the old hippy
> who'd owned her, and lived aboard her for many, many years. The new owner
> said, "the trouble was that Lee tried to solve a housing problem with a
> sailboat." Does it make sense to build a seagoing sailboat, one that could
> easily sail 'round the World, to solve a housing problem? Motorboats make
> better live-aboards anyway, and used ones can be found for good prices.
> On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 22:05:33 -0700, air_2_fly wrote:
> > ...
> > After seeing the pictures of this Colin Archer for sale:
> > http://www.rightboat.com/Colin-Archer-Double-Ender/boat-12027989/
> > I think I could have a skylight or two in the center of a flush deck of
> > a smaller boat. This link will not last if the boat sells, so I made
> > copies of the pictures. Very nice boat. I'm getting some good ideas.
> > ...
> John <jkohnen@...>
> Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you get
> a lot of scum on the top. <Edward Abbey>
--- On Sun, 8/9/09, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
"We talked about the old hippy who'd owned her, and lived aboard her for many, many years. The new owner said, "the trouble was that Lee tried to solve a housing problem with a sailboat." Does it make sense to build a seagoing sailboat, one that could easily sail 'round the World, to solve a housing problem?"
Yes it does. So much of our lives are about dreams and emotion. While we might drudge away our lives at some job for a living having that live board sail boat gives us the dream of freedom. Very few sailboats, sail around the world or make large passages. Most live a life at the dock going on day sails, weekend getaways and yearly vacations. The few that leave on a world passage usually go broke somewhere and don't make it. We all need to live somewhere so if we live where we can have the dream of freedom it adds to our value of life.
"That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a
keel and hull and a deck and sails. That's what a ship
needs. But what a ship is... what the Black Pearl
really is... is freedom" - Capt. Jack Sparrow
- Well put Ion, thanks.
While reading about an informal survey of circumnavigators, a survey of boat
size in the bay of remote islands that are on more than 1
circumnavigation...average 32.5 feet (not all double enders though). What
this means to me is 32.5 feet works for circumnavigation. Probably the sweet
spot for practicality, safety and budget. Add to that the double ender bonus
w/ Eric and Thistle and Dragon. I don't think anyone can formulate it, it's
goes beyond the science of 'what size boat is right'- it's got to be a
talley of sucess. It's also the same size of the Eric., which of course
makes me giddy.
On 8/10/09, lon wells <lononriver@...> wrote:
> --- On Sun, 8/9/09, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...<jkohnen%40boat-links.com>>
> "We talked about the old hippy who'd owned her, and lived aboard her for
> many, many years. The new owner said, "the trouble was that Lee tried to
> solve a housing problem with a sailboat." Does it make sense to build a
> seagoing sailboat, one that could easily sail 'round the World, to solve a
> housing problem?"
> Yes it does. So much of our lives are about dreams and emotion. While we
> might drudge away our lives at some job for a living having that live board
> sail boat gives us the dream of freedom. Very few sailboats, sail around the
> world or make large passages. Most live a life at the dock going on day
> sails, weekend getaways and yearly vacations. The few that leave on a world
> passage usually go broke somewhere and don't make it. We all need to live
> somewhere so if we live where we can have the dream of freedom it adds to
> our value of life.
> "That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a
> keel and hull and a deck and sails. That's what a ship
> needs. But what a ship is... what the Black Pearl
> really is... is freedom" - Capt. Jack Sparrow
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