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RE: [AtkinBoats] Plans

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  • Alan Boman
    HI Tom, Rescue Minor and Shoals Runner are very similar as you suggest. Mr William used the same hull shape, in a number of different lengths, over many
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 29, 2009
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      HI Tom,



      Rescue Minor and Shoals Runner are very similar as you suggest. Mr William
      used the same hull shape, in a number of different lengths, over many
      years. I am building a River Belle, which is the same shape again, but 36'
      long. I had no trouble lofting the Offsets Table into a set of workable
      plans, and the Plan/Profile drawings I received from Pat Atkin supplied the
      remainder of the details.



      I notice that the Shoals Runner has a slightly more complex shape in the
      after part of the chine, but otherwise seems very much the same as Rescue
      Minor. Given that Mr William continuously refined his Tunnel Stern designs
      over the years, the only significant difference may be that Shoals Runner is
      from 1958 and Rescue Minor from 1944 and were any improvements made, then
      the later design would be the better choice.



      Just a thought.



      Alan









      1944 - 1958





      From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of calfee20
      Sent: Monday, 29 June 2009 6:13 AM
      To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [AtkinBoats] Plans








      I was just at the Wooden boat show in Mystic and went to the Atkin's booth
      where I met Pat. She is a very nice lady.

      I thought I would be able to buy some plans there or at least look at a
      sample of what you are getting. Since I haven't done anything more than
      canoes I am kind of concerned about how much explanation is included.

      Pat said that you get four sheets. Now I went out and bought two of
      Motorboating's Ideal series books a couple of years ago. Is there more
      detail in the plans, more drawn stations or more detail for the stem and
      frame or is it basically a large version of the book article?

      I am trying to decide between Rescue Minor and Shoals Runner without buying
      two sets of plans. I am going to have to loft the plans whether I buy the
      plans or use the books. Right now I think my best option is to make two
      models to help me decide. Probably 2" to the foot.

      I will welcome any comments or input anyone may have thanks in advance.

      ....................................Tom C





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • calfee20
      ... Too bad you couldn t put models in a tank to measure efficiency. It seems these active hulls need to be driven. I forget his name Mr Gnome? from Bagley
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 3 10:35 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Boman" <alan@...> wrote:
        >
        > HI Tom,
        >
        >
        >
        > Rescue Minor and Shoals Runner are very similar as you suggest. Mr William
        > used the same hull shape, in a number of different lengths, over many
        > years. I am building a River Belle, which is the same shape again, but 36'
        > long. I had no trouble lofting the Offsets Table into a set of workable
        > plans, and the Plan/Profile drawings I received from Pat Atkin supplied the
        > remainder of the details.
        >
        >
        >
        > I notice that the Shoals Runner has a slightly more complex shape in the
        > after part of the chine, but otherwise seems very much the same as Rescue
        > Minor. Given that Mr William continuously refined his Tunnel Stern designs
        > over the years, the only significant difference may be that Shoals Runner is
        > from 1958 and Rescue Minor from 1944 and were any improvements made, then
        > the later design would be the better choice.
        >
        >
        >
        > Just a thought.
        >
        >
        >
        > Alan
        >


        Too bad you couldn't put models in a tank to measure efficiency. It seems these "active" hulls need to be driven.

        I forget his name Mr Gnome? from Bagley boatworks wanted to do a test on these hulls but I recently went to his site and found they had fallen prey to our world wide recession. I'm afraid to say the D word.

        Anyway the only way I can think of to make tests would be to make ACCURATE RC models and switch the same power drive from model to model and measure speed and current draw.

        Just a thought.....................Tom C
      • Alan Boman
        One of the available outputs of the freeware hull modelling software FreeShip (now called DelftShip) is a graph of speed versus drag for a given hull. (Drag
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 3 5:51 PM
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          One of the available outputs of the freeware hull modelling software
          "FreeShip" (now called DelftShip) is a graph of speed versus drag for a
          given hull. (Drag can be converted to Kw or HP).



          There is no way of knowing how accurate the algorithms in the program are in
          absolute terms, but if you simply wanted to compare two relatively similar
          hull designs, it probably wouldn't matter much.



          The hull resistance graph for Atkin's "River Belle" hull is attached for
          interest.





          Alan





          From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of calfee20
          Sent: Saturday, 4 July 2009 3:06 AM
          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Plans








          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ,
          "Alan Boman" <alan@...> wrote:
          >
          > HI Tom,
          >
          >
          >
          > Rescue Minor and Shoals Runner are very similar as you suggest. Mr William
          > used the same hull shape, in a number of different lengths, over many
          > years. I am building a River Belle, which is the same shape again, but 36'
          > long. I had no trouble lofting the Offsets Table into a set of workable
          > plans, and the Plan/Profile drawings I received from Pat Atkin supplied
          the
          > remainder of the details.
          >
          >
          >
          > I notice that the Shoals Runner has a slightly more complex shape in the
          > after part of the chine, but otherwise seems very much the same as Rescue
          > Minor. Given that Mr William continuously refined his Tunnel Stern designs
          > over the years, the only significant difference may be that Shoals Runner
          is
          > from 1958 and Rescue Minor from 1944 and were any improvements made, then
          > the later design would be the better choice.
          >
          >
          >
          > Just a thought.
          >
          >
          >
          > Alan
          >

          Too bad you couldn't put models in a tank to measure efficiency. It seems
          these "active" hulls need to be driven.

          I forget his name Mr Gnome? from Bagley boatworks wanted to do a test on
          these hulls but I recently went to his site and found they had fallen prey
          to our world wide recession. I'm afraid to say the D word.

          Anyway the only way I can think of to make tests would be to make ACCURATE
          RC models and switch the same power drive from model to model and measure
          speed and current draw.

          Just a thought.....................Tom C





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Alan Boman
          Sorry folks -looks like Yahoo Groups strips attachments. If anyone s wants a copy of the hull resistance graph let me know. A From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 3 6:02 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Sorry folks -looks like Yahoo Groups strips attachments.



            If anyone's wants a copy of the hull resistance graph let me know.



            A



            From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Alan Boman
            Sent: Saturday, 4 July 2009 10:21 AM
            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [AtkinBoats] Re: Plans








            One of the available outputs of the freeware hull modelling software
            "FreeShip" (now called DelftShip) is a graph of speed versus drag for a
            given hull. (Drag can be converted to Kw or HP).

            There is no way of knowing how accurate the algorithms in the program are in
            absolute terms, but if you simply wanted to compare two relatively similar
            hull designs, it probably wouldn't matter much.

            The hull resistance graph for Atkin's "River Belle" hull is attached for
            interest.

            Alan

            From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
            [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ]
            On
            Behalf Of calfee20
            Sent: Saturday, 4 July 2009 3:06 AM
            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Plans

            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
            <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ,
            "Alan Boman" <alan@...> wrote:
            >
            > HI Tom,
            >
            >
            >
            > Rescue Minor and Shoals Runner are very similar as you suggest. Mr William
            > used the same hull shape, in a number of different lengths, over many
            > years. I am building a River Belle, which is the same shape again, but 36'
            > long. I had no trouble lofting the Offsets Table into a set of workable
            > plans, and the Plan/Profile drawings I received from Pat Atkin supplied
            the
            > remainder of the details.
            >
            >
            >
            > I notice that the Shoals Runner has a slightly more complex shape in the
            > after part of the chine, but otherwise seems very much the same as Rescue
            > Minor. Given that Mr William continuously refined his Tunnel Stern designs
            > over the years, the only significant difference may be that Shoals Runner
            is
            > from 1958 and Rescue Minor from 1944 and were any improvements made, then
            > the later design would be the better choice.
            >
            >
            >
            > Just a thought.
            >
            >
            >
            > Alan
            >

            Too bad you couldn't put models in a tank to measure efficiency. It seems
            these "active" hulls need to be driven.

            I forget his name Mr Gnome? from Bagley boatworks wanted to do a test on
            these hulls but I recently went to his site and found they had fallen prey
            to our world wide recession. I'm afraid to say the D word.

            Anyway the only way I can think of to make tests would be to make ACCURATE
            RC models and switch the same power drive from model to model and measure
            speed and current draw.

            Just a thought.....................Tom C

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael MacDonald
            I d love to have your graph! I m interested on how bad a job it was to get the hull into freeship I was thinking of doing Shoals runner? mike -- Please do not
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 4 4:53 AM
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              I'd love to have your graph! I'm interested on how bad a job it was to get the hull into freeship I was thinking of doing Shoals runner?
              mike

              --
              Please do not use this EMail address. Please use Mike@... as your address to us. It will always get to our current email account. Just don't be surprised if you get email back from one of three or four different (outbound) addresses.


              >
              >From: Alan Boman <alan@...>
              >To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Friday, July 3, 2009 10:02:42 PM
              >Subject: RE: [AtkinBoats] Re: Plans
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Sorry folks -looks like Yahoo Groups strips attachments.
              >
              >>If anyone's wants a copy of the hull resistance graph let me know.
              >
              >>A
              >
              >>From: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com] On
              >>Behalf Of Alan Boman
              >>Sent: Saturday, 4 July 2009 10:21 AM
              >>To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
              >>Subject: RE: [AtkinBoats] Re: Plans
              >
              >>One of the available outputs of the freeware hull modelling software
              >>"FreeShip" (now called DelftShip) is a graph of speed versus drag for a
              >>given hull. (Drag can be converted to Kw or HP).
              >
              >>There is no way of knowing how accurate the algorithms in the program are in
              >>absolute terms, but if you simply wanted to compare two relatively similar
              >>hull designs, it probably wouldn't matter much.
              >
              >>The hull resistance graph for Atkin's "River Belle" hull is attached for
              >>interest.
              >
              >>Alan
              >
              >>From: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com <mailto:AtkinBoats% 40yahoogroups. com>
              >>[mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com <mailto:AtkinBoats% 40yahoogroups. com> ]
              >>On
              >>Behalf Of calfee20
              >>Sent: Saturday, 4 July 2009 3:06 AM
              >>To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com <mailto:AtkinBoats% 40yahoogroups. com>
              >>Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Plans
              >
              >>--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com <mailto:AtkinBoats% 40yahoogroups. com>
              >><mailto:AtkinBoats% 40yahoogroups. com> ,
              >>"Alan Boman" <alan@...> wrote:
              >>>
              >>> HI Tom,
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> Rescue Minor and Shoals Runner are very similar as you suggest. Mr William
              >>> used the same hull shape, in a number of different lengths, over many
              >>> years. I am building a River Belle, which is the same shape again, but 36'
              >>> long. I had no trouble lofting the Offsets Table into a set of workable
              >>> plans, and the Plan/Profile drawings I received from Pat Atkin supplied
              >>the
              >>> remainder of the details.
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> I notice that the Shoals Runner has a slightly more complex shape in the
              >>> after part of the chine, but otherwise seems very much the same as Rescue
              >>> Minor. Given that Mr William continuously refined his Tunnel Stern designs
              >>> over the years, the only significant difference may be that Shoals Runner
              >>is
              >>> from 1958 and Rescue Minor from 1944 and were any improvements made, then
              >>> the later design would be the better choice.
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> Just a thought.
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> Alan
              >>>
              >
              >>Too bad you couldn't put models in a tank to measure efficiency. It seems
              >>these "active" hulls need to be driven.
              >
              >>I forget his name Mr Gnome? from Bagley boatworks wanted to do a test on
              >>these hulls but I recently went to his site and found they had fallen prey
              >>to our world wide recession. I'm afraid to say the D word.
              >
              >>Anyway the only way I can think of to make tests would be to make ACCURATE
              >>RC models and switch the same power drive from model to model and measure
              >>speed and current draw.
              >
              >>Just a thought..... ......... .......Tom C
              >
              >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • JJ Johnson
              ... Yep, Yahoo is good at striping things. But you could put it in files then everyone that wanted a copy could download it from the files folder of this site.
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 4 6:49 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Boman" <alan@...> wrote:
                >
                > Sorry folks -looks like Yahoo Groups strips attachments.
                >
                >
                >
                > If anyone's wants a copy of the hull resistance graph let me know.
                >
                >
                Yep, Yahoo is good at striping things. But you could put it in files then everyone that wanted a copy could download it from the files folder of this site.
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