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Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat

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  • gordocutter_1
    That s exactly what I ve read about it. Sure I don t have the same experience of a life working with boats like Joaquim has, so I can only say what read or
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 27, 2008
      That's exactly what I've read about it. Sure I don't have the same
      experience of a life working with boats like Joaquim has, so I can
      only say what read or hear about it.
      Adaucto

      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > If the boat is carvel planking, to epoxy the planks is not a good
      idea, the planking is supposed to expand when in the water and seal
      the gaps. Epoxy will slow down the swelling process.
      > Furthermore, the epoxy will not stick and will crack on the
      caulking. This will allow moisture to penetrate the planking at the
      cracked seems and the rot will start because the epoxy will try to
      maintain the moisture inside.
      >  
      > Cold moulded, strip planked and plywood are ok with epoxy.
      >  
      > Giuliano
      >
      > --- On Wed, 8/27/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@...>
      > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
      > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 1:36 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I have worked on boats all my life, and never had a problem with
      epoxy-saturation techniques. on a boat built more than 60 years ago,
      there would be no problem. I always refere to West System Manuals.
      >
      > --- On Tue, 8/26/08, gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@.... br>
      wrote:
      > From: gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@.... br>
      > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
      > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
      > Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 11:09 AM
      >
      > I dind't know that traditional plank on edge hulls could be coat
      >
      > with epoxi. I've heard that due to the shrink of the planks the
      >
      > epoxi would not seal the hull the same way that a strip planking,
      >
      > cold molded or ply construction can be with epoxi.
      >
      > Adaucto
      >
      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, JOAQUIN OMAHONY
      <jqnomahony@ ...>
      >
      > wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Hi Archie...if possible, take the old caulking out. I used  5200
      >
      > Fast Cure in the seams, because the boat is on a trailer now, and
      >
      > not in the water all the time. the builder put a keel on her,
      which
      >
      > was not part of the original design, so i removed it and put in a
      >
      > centerboard case and centerboard. a good idea is to get the west
      >
      > system book on Wooden Boat Restoration and Repair. I have also
      >
      > sealed the hull with several coats of epoxy, and used
      epoxy,Valspar
      >
      > enamel on the Interior/Exterior, and all new wood is coated with
      >
      > epoxy before painting, and clear urethane on any varnish.
      >
      > > Joaquin
      >
      > >
      >
      > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Archie <archevanbelle@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > > From: Archie <archevanbelle@ ...>
      >
      > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
      >
      > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
      >
      > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:16 PM
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked 
      >
      > with a cement mixture. The boat has been stored all this time
      under
      >
      > a tarp, protected from the weather, but some of the seams have
      >
      > opened up do to continued shrinking of the planks. To repair this
      do
      >
      > we have to take out the existing caulking or can we just fill up
      the
      >
      > new cracks with some other type of caulking?
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Archie
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Arch E. Van Belle
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>
      wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
      >
      > >
      >
      > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:01 PM
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built in
      >
      > 1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Joaquin
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
      >
      > wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > From: archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
      >
      > >
      >
      > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:16 AM
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Hi All,
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Does anyone out there have experience restoring a vintage wooden
      >
      > boat?
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > We have a 38' Atkins designed wooden sailboat built in 1935 and
      we
      >
      > have
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > several question on the restoration, especially the hull.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Archie
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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    • gordocutter_1
      I ve been thinking, what if you put a layer of veneer over a carvel hull with epoxi, would this solve the problem of the shrinking and swelling? For example
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 27, 2008
        I've been thinking, what if you put a layer of veneer over a carvel
        hull with epoxi, would this solve the problem of the shrinking and
        swelling? For example putting a layer of veneer say at 45° or 90°
        over the carvel hull maybe this would work like form to stabilize
        the planks (like a cold molded would) and if you encapsulate the
        hull isolating it from the air this could stop the work of the wood.
        Adaucto



        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gordocutter_1"
        <gordocutter_1@...> wrote:
        >
        > That's exactly what I've read about it. Sure I don't have the same
        > experience of a life working with boats like Joaquim has, so I can
        > only say what read or hear about it.
        > Adaucto
        >
        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > If the boat is carvel planking, to epoxy the planks is not a
        good
        > idea, the planking is supposed to expand when in the water and
        seal
        > the gaps. Epoxy will slow down the swelling process.
        > > Furthermore, the epoxy will not stick and will crack on the
        > caulking. This will allow moisture to penetrate the planking at
        the
        > cracked seems and the rot will start because the epoxy will try to
        > maintain the moisture inside.
        > >  
        > > Cold moulded, strip planked and plywood are ok with epoxy.
        > >  
        > > Giuliano
        > >
        > > --- On Wed, 8/27/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@> wrote:
        > >
        > > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@>
        > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
        > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 1:36 PM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I have worked on boats all my life, and never had a problem with
        > epoxy-saturation techniques. on a boat built more than 60 years
        ago,
        > there would be no problem. I always refere to West System Manuals.
        > >
        > > --- On Tue, 8/26/08, gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@....
        br>
        > wrote:
        > > From: gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@.... br>
        > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
        > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
        > > Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 11:09 AM
        > >
        > > I dind't know that traditional plank on edge hulls could be coat
        > >
        > > with epoxi. I've heard that due to the shrink of the planks the
        > >
        > > epoxi would not seal the hull the same way that a strip
        planking,
        > >
        > > cold molded or ply construction can be with epoxi.
        > >
        > > Adaucto
        > >
        > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, JOAQUIN OMAHONY
        > <jqnomahony@ ...>
        > >
        > > wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Hi Archie...if possible, take the old caulking out. I used 
        5200
        > >
        > > Fast Cure in the seams, because the boat is on a trailer now,
        and
        > >
        > > not in the water all the time. the builder put a keel on her,
        > which
        > >
        > > was not part of the original design, so i removed it and put in
        a
        > >
        > > centerboard case and centerboard. a good idea is to get the west
        > >
        > > system book on Wooden Boat Restoration and Repair. I have also
        > >
        > > sealed the hull with several coats of epoxy, and used
        > epoxy,Valspar
        > >
        > > enamel on the Interior/Exterior, and all new wood is coated with
        > >
        > > epoxy before painting, and clear urethane on any varnish.
        > >
        > > > Joaquin
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Archie <archevanbelle@ ...> wrote:
        > >
        > > > From: Archie <archevanbelle@ ...>
        > >
        > > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
        > >
        > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
        > >
        > > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:16 PM
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked 
        > >
        > > with a cement mixture. The boat has been stored all this time
        > under
        > >
        > > a tarp, protected from the weather, but some of the seams have
        > >
        > > opened up do to continued shrinking of the planks. To repair
        this
        > do
        > >
        > > we have to take out the existing caulking or can we just fill up
        > the
        > >
        > > new cracks with some other type of caulking?
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Archie
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Arch E. Van Belle
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:01 PM
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built
        in
        > >
        > > 1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly.
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Joaquin
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
        > >
        > > wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > From: archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:16 AM
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Hi All,
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Does anyone out there have experience restoring a vintage
        wooden
        > >
        > > boat?
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > We have a 38' Atkins designed wooden sailboat built in 1935
        and
        > we
        > >
        > > have
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > several question on the restoration, especially the hull.
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Archie
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
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        > > >
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        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
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      • Giuliano Girometta
        I don t think will be a good idea. I am now talking about my professional experience with furniture manufacturing and restoring. The application of veneer to a
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 27, 2008
          I don't think will be a good idea.
          I am now talking about my professional experience with furniture manufacturing and restoring.
          The application of veneer to a solid core need the veneer to be applied to both sides in order to stabilize the wood and avoid the warping of the core..
          The core must be of a very stable wood, otherwise the veneer is going to blister.
          My personal opinion and also experience is that each time you are trying to take a shortcut, you end up to spend more money and labor than doing the work right the first time.
          Furthermore, caulking is just a simple operation that can be repeated over and over each time is needed, and require just two basic hand tools. While other approaches such veneering will require a complete stripping of the old coatings and bring the hull down to bare wood, otherwise there is no good adhesion, you will have to use a vacum pressing system and the cost for the veneer will be outrageous. Then you have to re-prime and re-paint the hull completly. (Whrew is the saving?).
          Caulking only need a caulking iron and a mallet and some cotton or oakum.
          Bevare of the specialty products that dno't need the cotton, I heared bad thinks about such great convenience and fast applications, and then will take you ten time more than the time of caulking just to go all over with a razor blade and remove that junk from the seams.
           
          There i a great book on the market called " Buehler's Backyard Boatbuilding" a lot of good topics and instructions.
           
          Giuliano

          --- On Thu, 8/28/08, gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...> wrote:

          From: gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...>
          Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 12:01 AM






          I've been thinking, what if you put a layer of veneer over a carvel
          hull with epoxi, would this solve the problem of the shrinking and
          swelling? For example putting a layer of veneer say at 45° or 90°
          over the carvel hull maybe this would work like form to stabilize
          the planks (like a cold molded would) and if you encapsulate the
          hull isolating it from the air this could stop the work of the wood.
          Adaucto

          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, "gordocutter_ 1"
          <gordocutter_ 1@...> wrote:
          >
          > That's exactly what I've read about it. Sure I don't have the same
          > experience of a life working with boats like Joaquim has, so I can
          > only say what read or hear about it.
          > Adaucto
          >
          > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > If the boat is carvel planking, to epoxy the planks is not a
          good
          > idea, the planking is supposed to expand when in the water and
          seal
          > the gaps. Epoxy will slow down the swelling process.
          > > Furthermore, the epoxy will not stick and will crack on the
          > caulking. This will allow moisture to penetrate the planking at
          the
          > cracked seems and the rot will start because the epoxy will try to
          > maintain the moisture inside.
          > >  
          > > Cold moulded, strip planked and plywood are ok with epoxy.
          > >  
          > > Giuliano
          > >
          > > --- On Wed, 8/27/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ > wrote:
          > >
          > > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ >
          > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
          > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
          > > Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 1:36 PM
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > I have worked on boats all my life, and never had a problem with
          > epoxy-saturation techniques. on a boat built more than 60 years
          ago,
          > there would be no problem. I always refere to West System Manuals.
          > >
          > > --- On Tue, 8/26/08, gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@....
          br>
          > wrote:
          > > From: gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@.... br>
          > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
          > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
          > > Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 11:09 AM
          > >
          > > I dind't know that traditional plank on edge hulls could be coat
          > >
          > > with epoxi. I've heard that due to the shrink of the planks the
          > >
          > > epoxi would not seal the hull the same way that a strip
          planking,
          > >
          > > cold molded or ply construction can be with epoxi.
          > >
          > > Adaucto
          > >
          > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, JOAQUIN OMAHONY
          > <jqnomahony@ ...>
          > >
          > > wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Hi Archie...if possible, take the old caulking out. I used 
          5200
          > >
          > > Fast Cure in the seams, because the boat is on a trailer now,
          and
          > >
          > > not in the water all the time. the builder put a keel on her,
          > which
          > >
          > > was not part of the original design, so i removed it and put in
          a
          > >
          > > centerboard case and centerboard. a good idea is to get the west
          > >
          > > system book on Wooden Boat Restoration and Repair. I have also
          > >
          > > sealed the hull with several coats of epoxy, and used
          > epoxy,Valspar
          > >
          > > enamel on the Interior/Exterior, and all new wood is coated with
          > >
          > > epoxy before painting, and clear urethane on any varnish.
          > >
          > > > Joaquin
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Archie <archevanbelle@ ...> wrote:
          > >
          > > > From: Archie <archevanbelle@ ...>
          > >
          > > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
          > >
          > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
          > >
          > > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:16 PM
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked 
          > >
          > > with a cement mixture. The boat has been stored all this time
          > under
          > >
          > > a tarp, protected from the weather, but some of the seams have
          > >
          > > opened up do to continued shrinking of the planks. To repair
          this
          > do
          > >
          > > we have to take out the existing caulking or can we just fill up
          > the
          > >
          > > new cracks with some other type of caulking?
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Archie
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Arch E. Van Belle
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:01 PM
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built
          in
          > >
          > > 1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly.
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Joaquin
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
          > >
          > > wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > From: archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:16 AM
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Hi All,
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Does anyone out there have experience restoring a vintage
          wooden
          > >
          > > boat?
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > We have a 38' Atkins designed wooden sailboat built in 1935
          and
          > we
          > >
          > > have
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > several question on the restoration, especially the hull.
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Archie
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >


















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John Kohnen
          Good advice, Giuliano! The old ways work, as Pete Culler used to tell us. A properly cared for traditionally built boat is just about immortal, cause you
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 27, 2008
            Good advice, Giuliano! "The old ways work," as Pete Culler used to tell
            us. A properly cared for traditionally built boat is just about immortal,
            'cause you can just keep fixing it and replacing parts as needed. Trying
            to combine modern boatbuilding techniques with old may work in the short
            run, but will be a disaster down the line.

            Several years ago an interesting couple who live on their boat in South
            Georgia (the island) had their worn out, carvel planked cutter rejuvenated
            by having several layers of veneers "cold-molded " over the outside of the
            hull. The operation was apparently a success, 'cause last I heard they
            were still living on the boat down in those cold climes. Rot doesn't like
            cold. <g> Their fix was kind of like what Allan Vaitses used to promote
            for getting a few more seasons out of an old fishing boat by fiberglassing
            it. It'll work for a while, maybe a long while someplace like the
            Antarctic, but when it goes bad the only thing the boat will be good for
            is firewood. But the couple from South Georgia's boat was written up in
            Wooden Boat, so people all over the place started thinking that a
            cold-molded shell was a good way to "save" an old boat. <sigh>

            A few years ago a fellow I know slightly bought an old British
            double-ended sailboat that had been treated to the cold-molding fix. She
            looked fine outside, and a quick glance inside didn't look too bad. One
            day he had to cut through the cold-molded shell for some reason. What he
            found was a layer of compost between the shell and a thin layer of halfway
            decent wood that was what you'd seen in your quick glance inside. He
            stripped off all the cold-molded shell and found there was scarcely a
            single plank worth saving. He gave up and the boatyard broke up the
            derelict hulk a few months ago. :o( Don't do it!

            The cotton or oakum is the caulking, any goop is just "seam compound" to
            fair the seam. The cotton or oakum doesn't just keep water out, it
            stiffens the hull. Trying to replace real caulking with goop is a criminal
            delusion.

            On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:29:58 -0700, Giuliano G wrote:

            > ...
            > My personal opinion and also experience is that each time you are trying
            > to take a shortcut, you end up to spend more money and labor than doing
            > the work right the first time.
            > ...
            > Bevare of the specialty products that dno't need the cotton, I heared
            > bad thinks about such great convenience and fast applications, and then
            > will take you ten time more than the time of caulking just to go all
            > over with a razor blade and remove that junk from the seams.
            >  ...

            --
            John <jkohnen@...>
            No man is justified in doing evil on the ground of expediency.
            <Franklin D. Roosevelt>
          • John Kohnen
            That cement stuff is just seam compound. The real caulking is the cotton or oakum stuffed into the seams beneath the seam compound. Clean all the old seam
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 27, 2008
              That cement stuff is just seam compound. The real caulking is the cotton
              or oakum stuffed into the seams beneath the seam compound. Clean all the
              old seam compound out of the seams and then check the caulking to make
              sure it's tight. Caulking is kind of an art, though anyone can pick it up
              well enough, so I'm told. Around the boatyards where I hang out the
              fishermen teach each other how to caulk, and other tricks of boat repair.
              Ask around your boatyard and you'll probably find someone to show you the
              rudiments of caulking. I sure hope there are some wooden boats other than
              yours there though! Out here we're still blessed with a lot of wooden
              fishing boats.

              I shudder whenever I see that cement seam compound. <shudder> It doesn't
              have any give, so it can damage the plank edges if they swell overmuch,
              and it doesn't do any good if the planks shrink. But the fishermen seem to
              love it, and some of their boats have lasted a long, long time. <shrug> A
              common recipe involves Portland cement and roofing tar. It stays soft
              until the boat hits the water and it's planks swell up, but then hardens.
              Many of the fishermen only use the cement compound on the topsides, using
              straight roofing tar below the waterline. I think it's worth the extra
              cost to use a real, non-hardening seam compound.

              Good luck with you project!

              On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:16:58 -0700, Archie wrote:

              > The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked  with a cement
              > mixture. The boat has been stored all this time under a tarp, protected
              > from the weather, but some of the seams have opened up do to continued
              > shrinking of the planks. To repair this do we have to take out the
              > existing caulking or can we just fill up the new cracks with some other
              > type of caulking?

              --
              John <jkohnen@...>
              It s a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a
              word! <Attributed to Andrew Jackson>
            • gordocutter_1
              Thanks for the tips friends. I thought that this could work because I saw in the Gartside s website a double planked hull that use epoxi so I figured that this
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 28, 2008
                Thanks for the tips friends. I thought that this could work because
                I saw in the Gartside's website a double planked hull that use epoxi
                so I figured that this could work with traditional plank on edge
                with veneer.

                Adaucto


                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                >
                > Good advice, Giuliano! "The old ways work," as Pete Culler used to
                tell
                > us. A properly cared for traditionally built boat is just about
                immortal,
                > 'cause you can just keep fixing it and replacing parts as needed.
                Trying
                > to combine modern boatbuilding techniques with old may work in the
                short
                > run, but will be a disaster down the line.
                >
                > Several years ago an interesting couple who live on their boat in
                South
                > Georgia (the island) had their worn out, carvel planked cutter
                rejuvenated
                > by having several layers of veneers "cold-molded " over the
                outside of the
                > hull. The operation was apparently a success, 'cause last I heard
                they
                > were still living on the boat down in those cold climes. Rot
                doesn't like
                > cold. <g> Their fix was kind of like what Allan Vaitses used to
                promote
                > for getting a few more seasons out of an old fishing boat by
                fiberglassing
                > it. It'll work for a while, maybe a long while someplace like the
                > Antarctic, but when it goes bad the only thing the boat will be
                good for
                > is firewood. But the couple from South Georgia's boat was written
                up in
                > Wooden Boat, so people all over the place started thinking that a
                > cold-molded shell was a good way to "save" an old boat. <sigh>
                >
                > A few years ago a fellow I know slightly bought an old British
                > double-ended sailboat that had been treated to the cold-molding
                fix. She
                > looked fine outside, and a quick glance inside didn't look too
                bad. One
                > day he had to cut through the cold-molded shell for some reason.
                What he
                > found was a layer of compost between the shell and a thin layer of
                halfway
                > decent wood that was what you'd seen in your quick glance inside.
                He
                > stripped off all the cold-molded shell and found there was
                scarcely a
                > single plank worth saving. He gave up and the boatyard broke up
                the
                > derelict hulk a few months ago. :o( Don't do it!
                >
                > The cotton or oakum is the caulking, any goop is just "seam
                compound" to
                > fair the seam. The cotton or oakum doesn't just keep water out,
                it
                > stiffens the hull. Trying to replace real caulking with goop is a
                criminal
                > delusion.
                >
                > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:29:58 -0700, Giuliano G wrote:
                >
                > > ...
                > > My personal opinion and also experience is that each time you
                are trying
                > > to take a shortcut, you end up to spend more money and labor
                than doing
                > > the work right the first time.
                > > ...
                > > Bevare of the specialty products that dno't need the cotton, I
                heared
                > > bad thinks about such great convenience and fast applications,
                and then
                > > will take you ten time more than the time of caulking just to go
                all
                > > over with a razor blade and remove that junk from the seams.
                > >  ...
                >
                > --
                > John <jkohnen@...>
                > No man is justified in doing evil on the ground of expediency.
                > <Franklin D. Roosevelt>
                >
              • Archie
                Thanks for the information. We are located near Port Townsend Washington and are looking for someone that can help. Arch E. Van Belle ... From: John Kohnen
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 29, 2008
                  Thanks for the information. We are located near Port Townsend Washington and are looking for someone that can help.

                  Arch E. Van Belle

                  --- On Wed, 8/27/08, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

                  From: John Kohnen <jkohnen@...>
                  Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                  To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 11:12 PM

                  That cement stuff is just seam compound. The real caulking is the cotton
                  or oakum stuffed into the seams beneath the seam compound. Clean all the
                  old seam compound out of the seams and then check the caulking to make
                  sure it's tight. Caulking is kind of an art, though anyone can pick it up
                  well enough, so I'm told. Around the boatyards where I hang out the
                  fishermen teach each other how to caulk, and other tricks of boat repair.
                  Ask around your boatyard and you'll probably find someone to show you the
                  rudiments of caulking. I sure hope there are some wooden boats other than
                  yours there though! Out here we're still blessed with a lot of wooden
                  fishing boats.

                  I shudder whenever I see that cement seam compound. <shudder> It
                  doesn't
                  have any give, so it can damage the plank edges if they swell overmuch,
                  and it doesn't do any good if the planks shrink. But the fishermen seem to

                  love it, and some of their boats have lasted a long, long time. <shrug> A

                  common recipe involves Portland cement and roofing tar. It stays soft
                  until the boat hits the water and it's planks swell up, but then hardens.
                  Many of the fishermen only use the cement compound on the topsides, using
                  straight roofing tar below the waterline. I think it's worth the extra
                  cost to use a real, non-hardening seam compound.

                  Good luck with you project!

                  On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:16:58 -0700, Archie wrote:

                  > The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked  with a cement
                  > mixture. The boat has been stored all this time under a tarp, protected
                  > from the weather, but some of the seams have opened up do to continued
                  > shrinking of the planks. To repair this do we have to take out the
                  > existing caulking or can we just fill up the new cracks with some other
                  > type of caulking?

                  --
                  John <jkohnen@...>
                  It s a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a
                  word! <Attributed to Andrew Jackson>

                  ------------------------------------

                  No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

                  If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If you
                  stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will take no
                  responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

                  The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                  <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>

                  Yahoo! Groups Links





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John Kohnen
                  You re in luck! There are lots of people around Port Townsend who know about wooden boats. Where is your boat? Maybe I can stop and look at it when I m up that
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 30, 2008
                    You're in luck! There are lots of people around Port Townsend who know
                    about wooden boats. Where is your boat? Maybe I can stop and look at it
                    when I'm up that way next week for the Festival.

                    On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:39:08 -0700, Archie wrote:

                    > Thanks for the information. We are located near Port Townsend Washington
                    > and are looking for someone that can help.

                    --
                    John <jkohnen@...>
                    What is more pleasant than a friendly little yacht, a long
                    stretch of smooth water, a gentle breeze, the stars? <Billy Atkin>
                  • Archie
                    That would be great. We plan to go to the festival our self. We are located at 1488 Shine Road, Port Ludlow. If you come by way of the Hood Canal floating
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 30, 2008
                      That would be great. We plan to go to the festival our self.
                      We are located at 1488 Shine Road, Port Ludlow. If you come by way of the Hood Canal floating bridge, you would take the first left turn after crossing the bridge. We are about 1.5 miles down that road on the south side of the road. My cell phone number is 425-218-4111

                      Arch E. Van Belle

                      --- On Sat, 8/30/08, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

                      From: John Kohnen <jkohnen@...>
                      Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                      To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 12:14 AM

                      You're in luck! There are lots of people around Port Townsend who know
                      about wooden boats. Where is your boat? Maybe I can stop and look at it
                      when I'm up that way next week for the Festival.

                      On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:39:08 -0700, Archie wrote:

                      > Thanks for the information. We are located near Port Townsend Washington
                      > and are looking for someone that can help.

                      --
                      John <jkohnen@...>
                      What is more pleasant than a friendly little yacht, a long
                      stretch of smooth water, a gentle breeze, the stars? <Billy Atkin>

                      ------------------------------------

                      No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

                      If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If you
                      stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will take no
                      responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

                      The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                      <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>

                      Yahoo! Groups Links





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • John Kohnen
                      I won t be going near no floating bridge if I can help it! The drive down the west side of Hood Canal is much nicer, and more relaxing after all the
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 2, 2008
                        I won't be going near no floating bridge if I can help it! <g> The drive
                        down the west side of Hood Canal is much nicer, and more relaxing after
                        all the freeway from Oregon to Shelton. But I'll plan to stop by your
                        place either on the way to PT tomorrow, or on the way home Monday.

                        I'm going to have my odd little camp cruiser on display. All Atkin boat
                        nuts are invited to stop by and BS about boats.

                        http://tinyurl.com/67z4cj

                        A bunch of unconventional boat nuts meet at the Otter Crossing for brunch
                        Saturday at 10:00. If you're of a Coot-like disposition you're invited to
                        join us.

                        Should be a good show this year. The weather sounds like it's gonna be
                        perfect -- sunny but not too warm. :o)

                        On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:59:52 -0700, Archie wrote:

                        > That would be great. We plan to go to the festival our self.
                        > We are located at 1488 Shine Road, Port Ludlow. If you come by way of
                        > the Hood Canal floating bridge, you would take the first left turn after
                        > crossing the bridge. We are about 1.5 miles down that road on the south
                        > side of the road. My cell phone number is 425-218-4111
                        >
                        --
                        John <jkohnen@...>
                        Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet
                        two conditions: 1. He is a Greek; 2. He is a Fisherman <Roy
                        Blount Jr.>
                      • Archie
                        I will be here tomorrow and will be working on the boat. I will be out of town on Monday so I hope you can make it tomorrow. If not, I will look for you at the
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 2, 2008
                          I will be here tomorrow and will be working on the boat. I will be out of town on Monday so I hope you can make it tomorrow. If not, I will look for you at the Festival on Friday.

                          Arch E. Van Belle

                          --- On Tue, 9/2/08, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

                          From: John Kohnen <jkohnen@...>
                          Subject: [AtkinBoats] Port Townsend Festival
                          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 6:32 PM

                          I won't be going near no floating bridge if I can help it! <g> The
                          drive
                          down the west side of Hood Canal is much nicer, and more relaxing after
                          all the freeway from Oregon to Shelton. But I'll plan to stop by your
                          place either on the way to PT tomorrow, or on the way home Monday.

                          I'm going to have my odd little camp cruiser on display. All Atkin boat
                          nuts are invited to stop by and BS about boats.

                          http://tinyurl.com/67z4cj

                          A bunch of unconventional boat nuts meet at the Otter Crossing for brunch
                          Saturday at 10:00. If you're of a Coot-like disposition you're invited
                          to
                          join us.

                          Should be a good show this year. The weather sounds like it's gonna be
                          perfect -- sunny but not too warm. :o)

                          On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:59:52 -0700, Archie wrote:

                          > That would be great. We plan to go to the festival our self.
                          > We are located at 1488 Shine Road, Port Ludlow. If you come by way of
                          > the Hood Canal floating bridge, you would take the first left turn after
                          > crossing the bridge. We are about 1.5 miles down that road on the south
                          > side of the road. My cell phone number is 425-218-4111
                          >
                          --
                          John <jkohnen@...>
                          Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet
                          two conditions: 1. He is a Greek; 2. He is a Fisherman <Roy
                          Blount Jr.>

                          ------------------------------------

                          No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

                          If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If you
                          stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will take no
                          responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

                          The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                          <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>

                          Yahoo! Groups Links





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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