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Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat

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  • JOAQUIN OMAHONY
    Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built in 1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly. Joaquin ... From: archevanbelle
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 25, 2008
      Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built in 1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly.
      Joaquin

      --- On Mon, 8/25/08, archevanbelle <archevanbelle@...> wrote:
      From: archevanbelle <archevanbelle@...>
      Subject: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
      To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:16 AM











      Hi All,

      Does anyone out there have experience restoring a vintage wooden boat?

      We have a 38' Atkins designed wooden sailboat built in 1935 and we have

      several question on the restoration, especially the hull.

      Archie





























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Archie
      The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked  with a cement mixture. The boat has been stored all this time under a tarp, protected from the weather,
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 25, 2008
        The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked  with a cement mixture. The boat has been stored all this time under a tarp, protected from the weather, but some of the seams have opened up do to continued shrinking of the planks. To repair this do we have to take out the existing caulking or can we just fill up the new cracks with some other type of caulking?
        Archie

        Arch E. Van Belle

        --- On Mon, 8/25/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@...> wrote:

        From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@...>
        Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
        To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:01 PM






        Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built in 1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly.
        Joaquin

        --- On Mon, 8/25/08, archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com> wrote:
        From: archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
        Subject: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
        To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
        Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:16 AM

        Hi All,

        Does anyone out there have experience restoring a vintage wooden boat?

        We have a 38' Atkins designed wooden sailboat built in 1935 and we have

        several question on the restoration, especially the hull.

        Archie











        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • JOAQUIN OMAHONY
        Hi Archie...if possible, take the old caulking out. I used  5200 Fast Cure in the seams, because the boat is on a trailer now, and not in the water all the
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 26, 2008
          Hi Archie...if possible, take the old caulking out. I used  5200 Fast Cure in the seams, because the boat is on a trailer now, and not in the water all the time. the builder put a keel on her, which was not part of the original design, so i removed it and put in a centerboard case and centerboard. a good idea is to get the west system book on Wooden Boat Restoration and Repair. I have also sealed the hull with several coats of epoxy, and used epoxy,Valspar enamel on the Interior/Exterior, and all new wood is coated with epoxy before painting, and clear urethane on any varnish.
          Joaquin

          --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Archie <archevanbelle@...> wrote:
          From: Archie <archevanbelle@...>
          Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:16 PM











          The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked  with a cement mixture. The boat has been stored all this time under a tarp, protected from the weather, but some of the seams have opened up do to continued shrinking of the planks. To repair this do we have to take out the existing caulking or can we just fill up the new cracks with some other type of caulking?

          Archie



          Arch E. Van Belle



          --- On Mon, 8/25/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@yahoo. com> wrote:



          From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@yahoo. com>

          Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat

          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com

          Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:01 PM



          Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built in 1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly.

          Joaquin



          --- On Mon, 8/25/08, archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com> wrote:

          From: archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>

          Subject: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat

          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com

          Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:16 AM



          Hi All,



          Does anyone out there have experience restoring a vintage wooden boat?



          We have a 38' Atkins designed wooden sailboat built in 1935 and we have



          several question on the restoration, especially the hull.



          Archie



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Archie
          Thanks for this information. I will find the book  and get a copy. Arch E. Van Belle ... From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY Subject: Re:
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 26, 2008
            Thanks for this information. I will find the book  and get a copy.

            Arch E. Van Belle

            --- On Tue, 8/26/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@...> wrote:

            From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@...>
            Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 8:23 AM






            Hi Archie...if possible, take the old caulking out. I used  5200 Fast Cure in the seams, because the boat is on a trailer now, and not in the water all the time. the builder put a keel on her, which was not part of the original design, so i removed it and put in a centerboard case and centerboard. a good idea is to get the west system book on Wooden Boat Restoration and Repair. I have also sealed the hull with several coats of epoxy, and used epoxy,Valspar enamel on the Interior/Exterior, and all new wood is coated with epoxy before painting, and clear urethane on any varnish.
            Joaquin

            --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Archie <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com> wrote:
            From: Archie <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
            Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
            Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:16 PM

            The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked  with a cement mixture. The boat has been stored all this time under a tarp, protected from the weather, but some of the seams have opened up do to continued shrinking of the planks. To repair this do we have to take out the existing caulking or can we just fill up the new cracks with some other type of caulking?

            Archie

            Arch E. Van Belle

            --- On Mon, 8/25/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com> wrote:

            From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>

            Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat

            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com

            Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:01 PM

            Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built in 1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly.

            Joaquin

            --- On Mon, 8/25/08, archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com> wrote:

            From: archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>

            Subject: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat

            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com

            Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:16 AM

            Hi All,

            Does anyone out there have experience restoring a vintage wooden boat?

            We have a 38' Atkins designed wooden sailboat built in 1935 and we have

            several question on the restoration, especially the hull.

            Archie

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • gordocutter_1
            I dind t know that traditional plank on edge hulls could be coat with epoxi. I ve heard that due to the shrink of the planks the epoxi would not seal the hull
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 26, 2008
              I dind't know that traditional plank on edge hulls could be coat
              with epoxi. I've heard that due to the shrink of the planks the
              epoxi would not seal the hull the same way that a strip planking,
              cold molded or ply construction can be with epoxi.
              Adaucto

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hi Archie...if possible, take the old caulking out. I used  5200
              Fast Cure in the seams, because the boat is on a trailer now, and
              not in the water all the time. the builder put a keel on her, which
              was not part of the original design, so i removed it and put in a
              centerboard case and centerboard. a good idea is to get the west
              system book on Wooden Boat Restoration and Repair. I have also
              sealed the hull with several coats of epoxy, and used epoxy,Valspar
              enamel on the Interior/Exterior, and all new wood is coated with
              epoxy before painting, and clear urethane on any varnish.
              > Joaquin
              >
              > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Archie <archevanbelle@...> wrote:
              > From: Archie <archevanbelle@...>
              > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
              > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:16 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked 
              with a cement mixture. The boat has been stored all this time under
              a tarp, protected from the weather, but some of the seams have
              opened up do to continued shrinking of the planks. To repair this do
              we have to take out the existing caulking or can we just fill up the
              new cracks with some other type of caulking?
              >
              > Archie
              >
              >
              >
              > Arch E. Van Belle
              >
              >
              >
              > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@yahoo. com> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@yahoo. com>
              >
              > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
              >
              > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
              >
              > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:01 PM
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built in
              1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly.
              >
              > Joaquin
              >
              >
              >
              > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
              wrote:
              >
              > From: archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
              >
              > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
              >
              > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
              >
              > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:16 AM
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi All,
              >
              >
              >
              > Does anyone out there have experience restoring a vintage wooden
              boat?
              >
              >
              >
              > We have a 38' Atkins designed wooden sailboat built in 1935 and we
              have
              >
              >
              >
              > several question on the restoration, especially the hull.
              >
              >
              >
              > Archie
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • JOAQUIN OMAHONY
              I have worked on boats all my life, and never had a problem with epoxy-saturation techniques. on a boat built more than 60 years ago, there would be no
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 27, 2008
                I have worked on boats all my life, and never had a problem with epoxy-saturation techniques. on a boat built more than 60 years ago, there would be no problem. I always refere to West System Manuals.

                --- On Tue, 8/26/08, gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...> wrote:
                From: gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...>
                Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 11:09 AM











                I dind't know that traditional plank on edge hulls could be coat

                with epoxi. I've heard that due to the shrink of the planks the

                epoxi would not seal the hull the same way that a strip planking,

                cold molded or ply construction can be with epoxi.

                Adaucto



                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ ...>

                wrote:

                >

                > Hi Archie...if possible, take the old caulking out. I used  5200

                Fast Cure in the seams, because the boat is on a trailer now, and

                not in the water all the time. the builder put a keel on her, which

                was not part of the original design, so i removed it and put in a

                centerboard case and centerboard. a good idea is to get the west

                system book on Wooden Boat Restoration and Repair. I have also

                sealed the hull with several coats of epoxy, and used epoxy,Valspar

                enamel on the Interior/Exterior, and all new wood is coated with

                epoxy before painting, and clear urethane on any varnish.

                > Joaquin

                >

                > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Archie <archevanbelle@ ...> wrote:

                > From: Archie <archevanbelle@ ...>

                > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat

                > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com

                > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:16 PM

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                > The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked 

                with a cement mixture. The boat has been stored all this time under

                a tarp, protected from the weather, but some of the seams have

                opened up do to continued shrinking of the planks. To repair this do

                we have to take out the existing caulking or can we just fill up the

                new cracks with some other type of caulking?

                >

                > Archie

                >

                >

                >

                > Arch E. Van Belle

                >

                >

                >

                > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com> wrote:

                >

                >

                >

                > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>

                >

                > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat

                >

                > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com

                >

                > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:01 PM

                >

                >

                >

                > Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built in

                1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly.

                >

                > Joaquin

                >

                >

                >

                > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>

                wrote:

                >

                > From: archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>

                >

                > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat

                >

                > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com

                >

                > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:16 AM

                >

                >

                >

                > Hi All,

                >

                >

                >

                > Does anyone out there have experience restoring a vintage wooden

                boat?

                >

                >

                >

                > We have a 38' Atkins designed wooden sailboat built in 1935 and we

                have

                >

                >

                >

                > several question on the restoration, especially the hull.

                >

                >

                >

                > Archie

                >

                >

                >

                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >

                >

                >

                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >

                >

                >

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                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

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                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >





























                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Giuliano Girometta
                If the boat is carvel planking, to epoxy the planks is not a good idea, the planking is supposed to expand when in the water and seal the gaps. Epoxy will slow
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 27, 2008
                  If the boat is carvel planking, to epoxy the planks is not a good idea, the planking is supposed to expand when in the water and seal the gaps. Epoxy will slow down the swelling process.
                  Furthermore, the epoxy will not stick and will crack on the caulking. This will allow moisture to penetrate the planking at the cracked seems and the rot will start because the epoxy will try to maintain the moisture inside.
                   
                  Cold moulded, strip planked and plywood are ok with epoxy.
                   
                  Giuliano

                  --- On Wed, 8/27/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@...> wrote:

                  From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@...>
                  Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                  To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 1:36 PM






                  I have worked on boats all my life, and never had a problem with epoxy-saturation techniques. on a boat built more than 60 years ago, there would be no problem. I always refere to West System Manuals.

                  --- On Tue, 8/26/08, gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@.... br> wrote:
                  From: gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@.... br>
                  Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                  To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 11:09 AM

                  I dind't know that traditional plank on edge hulls could be coat

                  with epoxi. I've heard that due to the shrink of the planks the

                  epoxi would not seal the hull the same way that a strip planking,

                  cold molded or ply construction can be with epoxi.

                  Adaucto

                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ ...>

                  wrote:

                  >

                  > Hi Archie...if possible, take the old caulking out. I used  5200

                  Fast Cure in the seams, because the boat is on a trailer now, and

                  not in the water all the time. the builder put a keel on her, which

                  was not part of the original design, so i removed it and put in a

                  centerboard case and centerboard. a good idea is to get the west

                  system book on Wooden Boat Restoration and Repair. I have also

                  sealed the hull with several coats of epoxy, and used epoxy,Valspar

                  enamel on the Interior/Exterior, and all new wood is coated with

                  epoxy before painting, and clear urethane on any varnish.

                  > Joaquin

                  >

                  > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Archie <archevanbelle@ ...> wrote:

                  > From: Archie <archevanbelle@ ...>

                  > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat

                  > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com

                  > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:16 PM

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked 

                  with a cement mixture. The boat has been stored all this time under

                  a tarp, protected from the weather, but some of the seams have

                  opened up do to continued shrinking of the planks. To repair this do

                  we have to take out the existing caulking or can we just fill up the

                  new cracks with some other type of caulking?

                  >

                  > Archie

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Arch E. Van Belle

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com> wrote:

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>

                  >

                  > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat

                  >

                  > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com

                  >

                  > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:01 PM

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built in

                  1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly.

                  >

                  > Joaquin

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>

                  wrote:

                  >

                  > From: archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>

                  >

                  > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat

                  >

                  > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com

                  >

                  > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:16 AM

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Hi All,

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Does anyone out there have experience restoring a vintage wooden

                  boat?

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > We have a 38' Atkins designed wooden sailboat built in 1935 and we

                  have

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > several question on the restoration, especially the hull.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Archie

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >











                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • gordocutter_1
                  That s exactly what I ve read about it. Sure I don t have the same experience of a life working with boats like Joaquim has, so I can only say what read or
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 27, 2008
                    That's exactly what I've read about it. Sure I don't have the same
                    experience of a life working with boats like Joaquim has, so I can
                    only say what read or hear about it.
                    Adaucto

                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > If the boat is carvel planking, to epoxy the planks is not a good
                    idea, the planking is supposed to expand when in the water and seal
                    the gaps. Epoxy will slow down the swelling process.
                    > Furthermore, the epoxy will not stick and will crack on the
                    caulking. This will allow moisture to penetrate the planking at the
                    cracked seems and the rot will start because the epoxy will try to
                    maintain the moisture inside.
                    >  
                    > Cold moulded, strip planked and plywood are ok with epoxy.
                    >  
                    > Giuliano
                    >
                    > --- On Wed, 8/27/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@...>
                    > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                    > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 1:36 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I have worked on boats all my life, and never had a problem with
                    epoxy-saturation techniques. on a boat built more than 60 years ago,
                    there would be no problem. I always refere to West System Manuals.
                    >
                    > --- On Tue, 8/26/08, gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@.... br>
                    wrote:
                    > From: gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@.... br>
                    > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                    > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                    > Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 11:09 AM
                    >
                    > I dind't know that traditional plank on edge hulls could be coat
                    >
                    > with epoxi. I've heard that due to the shrink of the planks the
                    >
                    > epoxi would not seal the hull the same way that a strip planking,
                    >
                    > cold molded or ply construction can be with epoxi.
                    >
                    > Adaucto
                    >
                    > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, JOAQUIN OMAHONY
                    <jqnomahony@ ...>
                    >
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Hi Archie...if possible, take the old caulking out. I used  5200
                    >
                    > Fast Cure in the seams, because the boat is on a trailer now, and
                    >
                    > not in the water all the time. the builder put a keel on her,
                    which
                    >
                    > was not part of the original design, so i removed it and put in a
                    >
                    > centerboard case and centerboard. a good idea is to get the west
                    >
                    > system book on Wooden Boat Restoration and Repair. I have also
                    >
                    > sealed the hull with several coats of epoxy, and used
                    epoxy,Valspar
                    >
                    > enamel on the Interior/Exterior, and all new wood is coated with
                    >
                    > epoxy before painting, and clear urethane on any varnish.
                    >
                    > > Joaquin
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Archie <archevanbelle@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > From: Archie <archevanbelle@ ...>
                    >
                    > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                    >
                    > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                    >
                    > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:16 PM
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked 
                    >
                    > with a cement mixture. The boat has been stored all this time
                    under
                    >
                    > a tarp, protected from the weather, but some of the seams have
                    >
                    > opened up do to continued shrinking of the planks. To repair this
                    do
                    >
                    > we have to take out the existing caulking or can we just fill up
                    the
                    >
                    > new cracks with some other type of caulking?
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Archie
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Arch E. Van Belle
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:01 PM
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built in
                    >
                    > 1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Joaquin
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
                    >
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > From: archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:16 AM
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Hi All,
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Does anyone out there have experience restoring a vintage wooden
                    >
                    > boat?
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > We have a 38' Atkins designed wooden sailboat built in 1935 and
                    we
                    >
                    > have
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > several question on the restoration, especially the hull.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Archie
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • gordocutter_1
                    I ve been thinking, what if you put a layer of veneer over a carvel hull with epoxi, would this solve the problem of the shrinking and swelling? For example
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 27, 2008
                      I've been thinking, what if you put a layer of veneer over a carvel
                      hull with epoxi, would this solve the problem of the shrinking and
                      swelling? For example putting a layer of veneer say at 45° or 90°
                      over the carvel hull maybe this would work like form to stabilize
                      the planks (like a cold molded would) and if you encapsulate the
                      hull isolating it from the air this could stop the work of the wood.
                      Adaucto



                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "gordocutter_1"
                      <gordocutter_1@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > That's exactly what I've read about it. Sure I don't have the same
                      > experience of a life working with boats like Joaquim has, so I can
                      > only say what read or hear about it.
                      > Adaucto
                      >
                      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > If the boat is carvel planking, to epoxy the planks is not a
                      good
                      > idea, the planking is supposed to expand when in the water and
                      seal
                      > the gaps. Epoxy will slow down the swelling process.
                      > > Furthermore, the epoxy will not stick and will crack on the
                      > caulking. This will allow moisture to penetrate the planking at
                      the
                      > cracked seems and the rot will start because the epoxy will try to
                      > maintain the moisture inside.
                      > >  
                      > > Cold moulded, strip planked and plywood are ok with epoxy.
                      > >  
                      > > Giuliano
                      > >
                      > > --- On Wed, 8/27/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@>
                      > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                      > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 1:36 PM
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I have worked on boats all my life, and never had a problem with
                      > epoxy-saturation techniques. on a boat built more than 60 years
                      ago,
                      > there would be no problem. I always refere to West System Manuals.
                      > >
                      > > --- On Tue, 8/26/08, gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@....
                      br>
                      > wrote:
                      > > From: gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@.... br>
                      > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                      > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                      > > Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 11:09 AM
                      > >
                      > > I dind't know that traditional plank on edge hulls could be coat
                      > >
                      > > with epoxi. I've heard that due to the shrink of the planks the
                      > >
                      > > epoxi would not seal the hull the same way that a strip
                      planking,
                      > >
                      > > cold molded or ply construction can be with epoxi.
                      > >
                      > > Adaucto
                      > >
                      > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, JOAQUIN OMAHONY
                      > <jqnomahony@ ...>
                      > >
                      > > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Hi Archie...if possible, take the old caulking out. I used 
                      5200
                      > >
                      > > Fast Cure in the seams, because the boat is on a trailer now,
                      and
                      > >
                      > > not in the water all the time. the builder put a keel on her,
                      > which
                      > >
                      > > was not part of the original design, so i removed it and put in
                      a
                      > >
                      > > centerboard case and centerboard. a good idea is to get the west
                      > >
                      > > system book on Wooden Boat Restoration and Repair. I have also
                      > >
                      > > sealed the hull with several coats of epoxy, and used
                      > epoxy,Valspar
                      > >
                      > > enamel on the Interior/Exterior, and all new wood is coated with
                      > >
                      > > epoxy before painting, and clear urethane on any varnish.
                      > >
                      > > > Joaquin
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Archie <archevanbelle@ ...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > From: Archie <archevanbelle@ ...>
                      > >
                      > > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                      > >
                      > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                      > >
                      > > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:16 PM
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked 
                      > >
                      > > with a cement mixture. The boat has been stored all this time
                      > under
                      > >
                      > > a tarp, protected from the weather, but some of the seams have
                      > >
                      > > opened up do to continued shrinking of the planks. To repair
                      this
                      > do
                      > >
                      > > we have to take out the existing caulking or can we just fill up
                      > the
                      > >
                      > > new cracks with some other type of caulking?
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Archie
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Arch E. Van Belle
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:01 PM
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built
                      in
                      > >
                      > > 1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly.
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Joaquin
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
                      > >
                      > > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > From: archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:16 AM
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Hi All,
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Does anyone out there have experience restoring a vintage
                      wooden
                      > >
                      > > boat?
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > We have a 38' Atkins designed wooden sailboat built in 1935
                      and
                      > we
                      > >
                      > > have
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > several question on the restoration, especially the hull.
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Archie
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                    • Giuliano Girometta
                      I don t think will be a good idea. I am now talking about my professional experience with furniture manufacturing and restoring. The application of veneer to a
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 27, 2008
                        I don't think will be a good idea.
                        I am now talking about my professional experience with furniture manufacturing and restoring.
                        The application of veneer to a solid core need the veneer to be applied to both sides in order to stabilize the wood and avoid the warping of the core..
                        The core must be of a very stable wood, otherwise the veneer is going to blister.
                        My personal opinion and also experience is that each time you are trying to take a shortcut, you end up to spend more money and labor than doing the work right the first time.
                        Furthermore, caulking is just a simple operation that can be repeated over and over each time is needed, and require just two basic hand tools. While other approaches such veneering will require a complete stripping of the old coatings and bring the hull down to bare wood, otherwise there is no good adhesion, you will have to use a vacum pressing system and the cost for the veneer will be outrageous. Then you have to re-prime and re-paint the hull completly. (Whrew is the saving?).
                        Caulking only need a caulking iron and a mallet and some cotton or oakum.
                        Bevare of the specialty products that dno't need the cotton, I heared bad thinks about such great convenience and fast applications, and then will take you ten time more than the time of caulking just to go all over with a razor blade and remove that junk from the seams.
                         
                        There i a great book on the market called " Buehler's Backyard Boatbuilding" a lot of good topics and instructions.
                         
                        Giuliano

                        --- On Thu, 8/28/08, gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...> wrote:

                        From: gordocutter_1 <gordocutter_1@...>
                        Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                        To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 12:01 AM






                        I've been thinking, what if you put a layer of veneer over a carvel
                        hull with epoxi, would this solve the problem of the shrinking and
                        swelling? For example putting a layer of veneer say at 45° or 90°
                        over the carvel hull maybe this would work like form to stabilize
                        the planks (like a cold molded would) and if you encapsulate the
                        hull isolating it from the air this could stop the work of the wood.
                        Adaucto

                        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, "gordocutter_ 1"
                        <gordocutter_ 1@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > That's exactly what I've read about it. Sure I don't have the same
                        > experience of a life working with boats like Joaquim has, so I can
                        > only say what read or hear about it.
                        > Adaucto
                        >
                        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > If the boat is carvel planking, to epoxy the planks is not a
                        good
                        > idea, the planking is supposed to expand when in the water and
                        seal
                        > the gaps. Epoxy will slow down the swelling process.
                        > > Furthermore, the epoxy will not stick and will crack on the
                        > caulking. This will allow moisture to penetrate the planking at
                        the
                        > cracked seems and the rot will start because the epoxy will try to
                        > maintain the moisture inside.
                        > >  
                        > > Cold moulded, strip planked and plywood are ok with epoxy.
                        > >  
                        > > Giuliano
                        > >
                        > > --- On Wed, 8/27/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ >
                        > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                        > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                        > > Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 1:36 PM
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I have worked on boats all my life, and never had a problem with
                        > epoxy-saturation techniques. on a boat built more than 60 years
                        ago,
                        > there would be no problem. I always refere to West System Manuals.
                        > >
                        > > --- On Tue, 8/26/08, gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@....
                        br>
                        > wrote:
                        > > From: gordocutter_ 1 <gordocutter_ 1@.... br>
                        > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                        > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                        > > Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 11:09 AM
                        > >
                        > > I dind't know that traditional plank on edge hulls could be coat
                        > >
                        > > with epoxi. I've heard that due to the shrink of the planks the
                        > >
                        > > epoxi would not seal the hull the same way that a strip
                        planking,
                        > >
                        > > cold molded or ply construction can be with epoxi.
                        > >
                        > > Adaucto
                        > >
                        > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com, JOAQUIN OMAHONY
                        > <jqnomahony@ ...>
                        > >
                        > > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Hi Archie...if possible, take the old caulking out. I used 
                        5200
                        > >
                        > > Fast Cure in the seams, because the boat is on a trailer now,
                        and
                        > >
                        > > not in the water all the time. the builder put a keel on her,
                        > which
                        > >
                        > > was not part of the original design, so i removed it and put in
                        a
                        > >
                        > > centerboard case and centerboard. a good idea is to get the west
                        > >
                        > > system book on Wooden Boat Restoration and Repair. I have also
                        > >
                        > > sealed the hull with several coats of epoxy, and used
                        > epoxy,Valspar
                        > >
                        > > enamel on the Interior/Exterior, and all new wood is coated with
                        > >
                        > > epoxy before painting, and clear urethane on any varnish.
                        > >
                        > > > Joaquin
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Archie <archevanbelle@ ...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > From: Archie <archevanbelle@ ...>
                        > >
                        > > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                        > >
                        > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                        > >
                        > > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:16 PM
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked 
                        > >
                        > > with a cement mixture. The boat has been stored all this time
                        > under
                        > >
                        > > a tarp, protected from the weather, but some of the seams have
                        > >
                        > > opened up do to continued shrinking of the planks. To repair
                        this
                        > do
                        > >
                        > > we have to take out the existing caulking or can we just fill up
                        > the
                        > >
                        > > new cracks with some other type of caulking?
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Archie
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Arch E. Van Belle
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > From: JOAQUIN OMAHONY <jqnomahony@ yahoo. com>
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 1:01 PM
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Hi Archie...I have been rebuilding a 22ft Dolly Varden, built
                        in
                        > >
                        > > 1936. Perhaps I can help. What is it you want to know exactly.
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Joaquin
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > --- On Mon, 8/25/08, archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
                        > >
                        > > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > From: archevanbelle <archevanbelle@ yahoo.com>
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro ups.com
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:16 AM
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Hi All,
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Does anyone out there have experience restoring a vintage
                        wooden
                        > >
                        > > boat?
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > We have a 38' Atkins designed wooden sailboat built in 1935
                        and
                        > we
                        > >
                        > > have
                        > >
                        > > >
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                      • John Kohnen
                        Good advice, Giuliano! The old ways work, as Pete Culler used to tell us. A properly cared for traditionally built boat is just about immortal, cause you
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 27, 2008
                          Good advice, Giuliano! "The old ways work," as Pete Culler used to tell
                          us. A properly cared for traditionally built boat is just about immortal,
                          'cause you can just keep fixing it and replacing parts as needed. Trying
                          to combine modern boatbuilding techniques with old may work in the short
                          run, but will be a disaster down the line.

                          Several years ago an interesting couple who live on their boat in South
                          Georgia (the island) had their worn out, carvel planked cutter rejuvenated
                          by having several layers of veneers "cold-molded " over the outside of the
                          hull. The operation was apparently a success, 'cause last I heard they
                          were still living on the boat down in those cold climes. Rot doesn't like
                          cold. <g> Their fix was kind of like what Allan Vaitses used to promote
                          for getting a few more seasons out of an old fishing boat by fiberglassing
                          it. It'll work for a while, maybe a long while someplace like the
                          Antarctic, but when it goes bad the only thing the boat will be good for
                          is firewood. But the couple from South Georgia's boat was written up in
                          Wooden Boat, so people all over the place started thinking that a
                          cold-molded shell was a good way to "save" an old boat. <sigh>

                          A few years ago a fellow I know slightly bought an old British
                          double-ended sailboat that had been treated to the cold-molding fix. She
                          looked fine outside, and a quick glance inside didn't look too bad. One
                          day he had to cut through the cold-molded shell for some reason. What he
                          found was a layer of compost between the shell and a thin layer of halfway
                          decent wood that was what you'd seen in your quick glance inside. He
                          stripped off all the cold-molded shell and found there was scarcely a
                          single plank worth saving. He gave up and the boatyard broke up the
                          derelict hulk a few months ago. :o( Don't do it!

                          The cotton or oakum is the caulking, any goop is just "seam compound" to
                          fair the seam. The cotton or oakum doesn't just keep water out, it
                          stiffens the hull. Trying to replace real caulking with goop is a criminal
                          delusion.

                          On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:29:58 -0700, Giuliano G wrote:

                          > ...
                          > My personal opinion and also experience is that each time you are trying
                          > to take a shortcut, you end up to spend more money and labor than doing
                          > the work right the first time.
                          > ...
                          > Bevare of the specialty products that dno't need the cotton, I heared
                          > bad thinks about such great convenience and fast applications, and then
                          > will take you ten time more than the time of caulking just to go all
                          > over with a razor blade and remove that junk from the seams.
                          >  ...

                          --
                          John <jkohnen@...>
                          No man is justified in doing evil on the ground of expediency.
                          <Franklin D. Roosevelt>
                        • John Kohnen
                          That cement stuff is just seam compound. The real caulking is the cotton or oakum stuffed into the seams beneath the seam compound. Clean all the old seam
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 27, 2008
                            That cement stuff is just seam compound. The real caulking is the cotton
                            or oakum stuffed into the seams beneath the seam compound. Clean all the
                            old seam compound out of the seams and then check the caulking to make
                            sure it's tight. Caulking is kind of an art, though anyone can pick it up
                            well enough, so I'm told. Around the boatyards where I hang out the
                            fishermen teach each other how to caulk, and other tricks of boat repair.
                            Ask around your boatyard and you'll probably find someone to show you the
                            rudiments of caulking. I sure hope there are some wooden boats other than
                            yours there though! Out here we're still blessed with a lot of wooden
                            fishing boats.

                            I shudder whenever I see that cement seam compound. <shudder> It doesn't
                            have any give, so it can damage the plank edges if they swell overmuch,
                            and it doesn't do any good if the planks shrink. But the fishermen seem to
                            love it, and some of their boats have lasted a long, long time. <shrug> A
                            common recipe involves Portland cement and roofing tar. It stays soft
                            until the boat hits the water and it's planks swell up, but then hardens.
                            Many of the fishermen only use the cement compound on the topsides, using
                            straight roofing tar below the waterline. I think it's worth the extra
                            cost to use a real, non-hardening seam compound.

                            Good luck with you project!

                            On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:16:58 -0700, Archie wrote:

                            > The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked  with a cement
                            > mixture. The boat has been stored all this time under a tarp, protected
                            > from the weather, but some of the seams have opened up do to continued
                            > shrinking of the planks. To repair this do we have to take out the
                            > existing caulking or can we just fill up the new cracks with some other
                            > type of caulking?

                            --
                            John <jkohnen@...>
                            It s a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a
                            word! <Attributed to Andrew Jackson>
                          • gordocutter_1
                            Thanks for the tips friends. I thought that this could work because I saw in the Gartside s website a double planked hull that use epoxi so I figured that this
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 28, 2008
                              Thanks for the tips friends. I thought that this could work because
                              I saw in the Gartside's website a double planked hull that use epoxi
                              so I figured that this could work with traditional plank on edge
                              with veneer.

                              Adaucto


                              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Good advice, Giuliano! "The old ways work," as Pete Culler used to
                              tell
                              > us. A properly cared for traditionally built boat is just about
                              immortal,
                              > 'cause you can just keep fixing it and replacing parts as needed.
                              Trying
                              > to combine modern boatbuilding techniques with old may work in the
                              short
                              > run, but will be a disaster down the line.
                              >
                              > Several years ago an interesting couple who live on their boat in
                              South
                              > Georgia (the island) had their worn out, carvel planked cutter
                              rejuvenated
                              > by having several layers of veneers "cold-molded " over the
                              outside of the
                              > hull. The operation was apparently a success, 'cause last I heard
                              they
                              > were still living on the boat down in those cold climes. Rot
                              doesn't like
                              > cold. <g> Their fix was kind of like what Allan Vaitses used to
                              promote
                              > for getting a few more seasons out of an old fishing boat by
                              fiberglassing
                              > it. It'll work for a while, maybe a long while someplace like the
                              > Antarctic, but when it goes bad the only thing the boat will be
                              good for
                              > is firewood. But the couple from South Georgia's boat was written
                              up in
                              > Wooden Boat, so people all over the place started thinking that a
                              > cold-molded shell was a good way to "save" an old boat. <sigh>
                              >
                              > A few years ago a fellow I know slightly bought an old British
                              > double-ended sailboat that had been treated to the cold-molding
                              fix. She
                              > looked fine outside, and a quick glance inside didn't look too
                              bad. One
                              > day he had to cut through the cold-molded shell for some reason.
                              What he
                              > found was a layer of compost between the shell and a thin layer of
                              halfway
                              > decent wood that was what you'd seen in your quick glance inside.
                              He
                              > stripped off all the cold-molded shell and found there was
                              scarcely a
                              > single plank worth saving. He gave up and the boatyard broke up
                              the
                              > derelict hulk a few months ago. :o( Don't do it!
                              >
                              > The cotton or oakum is the caulking, any goop is just "seam
                              compound" to
                              > fair the seam. The cotton or oakum doesn't just keep water out,
                              it
                              > stiffens the hull. Trying to replace real caulking with goop is a
                              criminal
                              > delusion.
                              >
                              > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:29:58 -0700, Giuliano G wrote:
                              >
                              > > ...
                              > > My personal opinion and also experience is that each time you
                              are trying
                              > > to take a shortcut, you end up to spend more money and labor
                              than doing
                              > > the work right the first time.
                              > > ...
                              > > Bevare of the specialty products that dno't need the cotton, I
                              heared
                              > > bad thinks about such great convenience and fast applications,
                              and then
                              > > will take you ten time more than the time of caulking just to go
                              all
                              > > over with a razor blade and remove that junk from the seams.
                              > >  ...
                              >
                              > --
                              > John <jkohnen@...>
                              > No man is justified in doing evil on the ground of expediency.
                              > <Franklin D. Roosevelt>
                              >
                            • Archie
                              Thanks for the information. We are located near Port Townsend Washington and are looking for someone that can help. Arch E. Van Belle ... From: John Kohnen
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 29, 2008
                                Thanks for the information. We are located near Port Townsend Washington and are looking for someone that can help.

                                Arch E. Van Belle

                                --- On Wed, 8/27/08, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

                                From: John Kohnen <jkohnen@...>
                                Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                                To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 11:12 PM

                                That cement stuff is just seam compound. The real caulking is the cotton
                                or oakum stuffed into the seams beneath the seam compound. Clean all the
                                old seam compound out of the seams and then check the caulking to make
                                sure it's tight. Caulking is kind of an art, though anyone can pick it up
                                well enough, so I'm told. Around the boatyards where I hang out the
                                fishermen teach each other how to caulk, and other tricks of boat repair.
                                Ask around your boatyard and you'll probably find someone to show you the
                                rudiments of caulking. I sure hope there are some wooden boats other than
                                yours there though! Out here we're still blessed with a lot of wooden
                                fishing boats.

                                I shudder whenever I see that cement seam compound. <shudder> It
                                doesn't
                                have any give, so it can damage the plank edges if they swell overmuch,
                                and it doesn't do any good if the planks shrink. But the fishermen seem to

                                love it, and some of their boats have lasted a long, long time. <shrug> A

                                common recipe involves Portland cement and roofing tar. It stays soft
                                until the boat hits the water and it's planks swell up, but then hardens.
                                Many of the fishermen only use the cement compound on the topsides, using
                                straight roofing tar below the waterline. I think it's worth the extra
                                cost to use a real, non-hardening seam compound.

                                Good luck with you project!

                                On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:16:58 -0700, Archie wrote:

                                > The hull was repaired five years ago and re-caulked  with a cement
                                > mixture. The boat has been stored all this time under a tarp, protected
                                > from the weather, but some of the seams have opened up do to continued
                                > shrinking of the planks. To repair this do we have to take out the
                                > existing caulking or can we just fill up the new cracks with some other
                                > type of caulking?

                                --
                                John <jkohnen@...>
                                It s a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a
                                word! <Attributed to Andrew Jackson>

                                ------------------------------------

                                No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

                                If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If you
                                stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will take no
                                responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

                                The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                                <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>

                                Yahoo! Groups Links





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • John Kohnen
                                You re in luck! There are lots of people around Port Townsend who know about wooden boats. Where is your boat? Maybe I can stop and look at it when I m up that
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 30, 2008
                                  You're in luck! There are lots of people around Port Townsend who know
                                  about wooden boats. Where is your boat? Maybe I can stop and look at it
                                  when I'm up that way next week for the Festival.

                                  On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:39:08 -0700, Archie wrote:

                                  > Thanks for the information. We are located near Port Townsend Washington
                                  > and are looking for someone that can help.

                                  --
                                  John <jkohnen@...>
                                  What is more pleasant than a friendly little yacht, a long
                                  stretch of smooth water, a gentle breeze, the stars? <Billy Atkin>
                                • Archie
                                  That would be great. We plan to go to the festival our self. We are located at 1488 Shine Road, Port Ludlow. If you come by way of the Hood Canal floating
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Aug 30, 2008
                                    That would be great. We plan to go to the festival our self.
                                    We are located at 1488 Shine Road, Port Ludlow. If you come by way of the Hood Canal floating bridge, you would take the first left turn after crossing the bridge. We are about 1.5 miles down that road on the south side of the road. My cell phone number is 425-218-4111

                                    Arch E. Van Belle

                                    --- On Sat, 8/30/08, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

                                    From: John Kohnen <jkohnen@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Restoring a vintage wooden boat
                                    To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 12:14 AM

                                    You're in luck! There are lots of people around Port Townsend who know
                                    about wooden boats. Where is your boat? Maybe I can stop and look at it
                                    when I'm up that way next week for the Festival.

                                    On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:39:08 -0700, Archie wrote:

                                    > Thanks for the information. We are located near Port Townsend Washington
                                    > and are looking for someone that can help.

                                    --
                                    John <jkohnen@...>
                                    What is more pleasant than a friendly little yacht, a long
                                    stretch of smooth water, a gentle breeze, the stars? <Billy Atkin>

                                    ------------------------------------

                                    No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

                                    If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If you
                                    stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will take no
                                    responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

                                    The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                                    <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>

                                    Yahoo! Groups Links





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • John Kohnen
                                    I won t be going near no floating bridge if I can help it! The drive down the west side of Hood Canal is much nicer, and more relaxing after all the
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Sep 2, 2008
                                      I won't be going near no floating bridge if I can help it! <g> The drive
                                      down the west side of Hood Canal is much nicer, and more relaxing after
                                      all the freeway from Oregon to Shelton. But I'll plan to stop by your
                                      place either on the way to PT tomorrow, or on the way home Monday.

                                      I'm going to have my odd little camp cruiser on display. All Atkin boat
                                      nuts are invited to stop by and BS about boats.

                                      http://tinyurl.com/67z4cj

                                      A bunch of unconventional boat nuts meet at the Otter Crossing for brunch
                                      Saturday at 10:00. If you're of a Coot-like disposition you're invited to
                                      join us.

                                      Should be a good show this year. The weather sounds like it's gonna be
                                      perfect -- sunny but not too warm. :o)

                                      On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:59:52 -0700, Archie wrote:

                                      > That would be great. We plan to go to the festival our self.
                                      > We are located at 1488 Shine Road, Port Ludlow. If you come by way of
                                      > the Hood Canal floating bridge, you would take the first left turn after
                                      > crossing the bridge. We are about 1.5 miles down that road on the south
                                      > side of the road. My cell phone number is 425-218-4111
                                      >
                                      --
                                      John <jkohnen@...>
                                      Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet
                                      two conditions: 1. He is a Greek; 2. He is a Fisherman <Roy
                                      Blount Jr.>
                                    • Archie
                                      I will be here tomorrow and will be working on the boat. I will be out of town on Monday so I hope you can make it tomorrow. If not, I will look for you at the
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Sep 2, 2008
                                        I will be here tomorrow and will be working on the boat. I will be out of town on Monday so I hope you can make it tomorrow. If not, I will look for you at the Festival on Friday.

                                        Arch E. Van Belle

                                        --- On Tue, 9/2/08, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

                                        From: John Kohnen <jkohnen@...>
                                        Subject: [AtkinBoats] Port Townsend Festival
                                        To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 6:32 PM

                                        I won't be going near no floating bridge if I can help it! <g> The
                                        drive
                                        down the west side of Hood Canal is much nicer, and more relaxing after
                                        all the freeway from Oregon to Shelton. But I'll plan to stop by your
                                        place either on the way to PT tomorrow, or on the way home Monday.

                                        I'm going to have my odd little camp cruiser on display. All Atkin boat
                                        nuts are invited to stop by and BS about boats.

                                        http://tinyurl.com/67z4cj

                                        A bunch of unconventional boat nuts meet at the Otter Crossing for brunch
                                        Saturday at 10:00. If you're of a Coot-like disposition you're invited
                                        to
                                        join us.

                                        Should be a good show this year. The weather sounds like it's gonna be
                                        perfect -- sunny but not too warm. :o)

                                        On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:59:52 -0700, Archie wrote:

                                        > That would be great. We plan to go to the festival our self.
                                        > We are located at 1488 Shine Road, Port Ludlow. If you come by way of
                                        > the Hood Canal floating bridge, you would take the first left turn after
                                        > crossing the bridge. We are about 1.5 miles down that road on the south
                                        > side of the road. My cell phone number is 425-218-4111
                                        >
                                        --
                                        John <jkohnen@...>
                                        Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet
                                        two conditions: 1. He is a Greek; 2. He is a Fisherman <Roy
                                        Blount Jr.>

                                        ------------------------------------

                                        No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite.

                                        If you set out to build an Atkin boat, please do not modify the plans. If you
                                        stray from the plans you do so at your own risk and Atkin & Co. will take no
                                        responsibility for the performance of the resulting boat.

                                        The current Atkin boat plans catalog is online at
                                        <http://www.atkinboatplans.com/>

                                        Yahoo! Groups Links





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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