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Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat

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  • Gordon
    Arrogant I don t know, probably am. I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker, Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG (Slot Cars). That
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 10, 2008
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      Arrogant

      I don't know, probably am.
      I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker, Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
      (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
      Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.

      You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through it's first storm right now.

      Gordon Brimhall


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: gordocutter_1
      To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
      Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


      You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
      telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
      don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
      an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
      trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
      yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
      my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
      you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
      kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.

      Adaucto Mello

      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
      >
      > Always somebody like you around.
      > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
      > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
      > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
      >
      > smile
      >
      > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
      >
      > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
      on forums
      > telling other people their boat is going to sink
      >
      > Gordon
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: gordocutter_1
      > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
      > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
      >
      >
      > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
      was
      > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
      boat,
      > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
      something
      > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
      weather
      > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
      capsize
      > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
      > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
      study
      > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
      know
      > if it's true.
      >
      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
      scale
      > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
      the
      > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
      > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
      make a
      > difference? To me it does not.
      > >
      > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
      you
      > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
      Roberts
      > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
      > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
      > >
      > > Thanks for your comments
      > >
      > > Gordon
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: javadave2
      > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
      > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
      > >
      > >
      > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
      > but
      > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
      > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
      of
      > the
      > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
      your
      > stem
      > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
      > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
      design.
      > It
      > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
      > inside
      > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
      > the
      > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
      > built
      > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
      > recut
      > > to those lines.
      > >
      > > Good luck, hope this helps!
      > > Dave
      > >
      > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
      the
      > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
      > Spray
      > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
      > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
      > > >
      > > > Gordon
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: javadave2
      > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
      > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
      > > design
      > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
      loft,
      > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
      the
      > > inside
      > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
      > Are
      > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
      > > > Dave
      > > >
      > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
      > <hotwizard44@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
      <jkohnen@>
      > > wrote:
      > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
      > > > a 'deducted
      > > > > body plan'?
      > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
      the
      > > > building of
      > > > > a
      > > > > > Vintage:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
      > > > > >
      > > > > > They're doing it Right!
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --
      > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
      > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
      > span
      > > of
      > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
      > tasks,
      > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
      common
      > > sense
      > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mike Dolph
      I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo. He s a Brazilian who s
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 11, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
        really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
        He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
        of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
        more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

        Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
        sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
        useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
        laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

        I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
        whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
        trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
        He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

        Mike Dolph

        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
        >
        > Arrogant
        >
        > I don't know, probably am.
        > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
        Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
        > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
        Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
        > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
        owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
        >
        > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
        Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
        it's first storm right now.
        >
        > Gordon Brimhall
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: gordocutter_1
        > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
        > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
        >
        >
        > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
        > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
        > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
        > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
        > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
        > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
        > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
        > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
        > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
        >
        > Adaucto Mello
        >
        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Always somebody like you around.
        > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
        > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
        > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
        > >
        > > smile
        > >
        > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
        > >
        > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
        > on forums
        > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
        > >
        > > Gordon
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: gordocutter_1
        > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
        > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
        > >
        > >
        > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
        > was
        > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
        > boat,
        > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
        > something
        > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
        > weather
        > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
        > capsize
        > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
        > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
        > study
        > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
        > know
        > > if it's true.
        > >
        > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
        > scale
        > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
        > the
        > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
        > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
        > make a
        > > difference? To me it does not.
        > > >
        > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
        > you
        > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
        > Roberts
        > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
        > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
        > > >
        > > > Thanks for your comments
        > > >
        > > > Gordon
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: javadave2
        > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
        > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
        > > but
        > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
        > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
        > of
        > > the
        > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
        > your
        > > stem
        > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
        > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
        > design.
        > > It
        > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
        > > inside
        > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
        > > the
        > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
        > > built
        > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
        > > recut
        > > > to those lines.
        > > >
        > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
        > > > Dave
        > > >
        > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
        > the
        > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
        > > Spray
        > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
        > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
        > > > >
        > > > > Gordon
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > > From: javadave2
        > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
        > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
        > > > design
        > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
        > loft,
        > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
        > the
        > > > inside
        > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
        > > Are
        > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
        > > > > Dave
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
        > > <hotwizard44@>
        > > > > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
        > <jkohnen@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
        > > > > a 'deducted
        > > > > > body plan'?
        > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
        > the
        > > > > building of
        > > > > > a
        > > > > > > Vintage:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --
        > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
        > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
        > > span
        > > > of
        > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
        > > tasks,
        > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
        > common
        > > > sense
        > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Gordon
        That is OK I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 11, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          That is OK
          I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if I even live to be 81 yrs old. But that gives me 14 years in planning and building. Some will say that is a pipe dream but my who life has been one Dream after another. I have worked hard all my life making my dreams come true like many others I think. Even going to college later after I was married with 3 kids and holding down a full time job as a machinist at McDonald Douglas Aircraft and only getting a few hrs sleep was not easy but it had to be done or my future would have not been as good as it has.

          If I had room I would quote some of tristan Jones writings about having dreams, I saved all his books for last and they are good. "Ice" especially. I have read probably every cruising book available over the past 25 yrs, many before I ever bought my first sailboat. My insperation was Tania Aebi and now I share emails with her 20 yrs after she sailed around the world as a young 18 yrs old.

          Gordon

          Always a Dream


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Mike Dolph
          To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:42 AM
          Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


          I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
          really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
          He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
          of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
          more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

          Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
          sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
          useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
          laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

          I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
          whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
          trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
          He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

          Mike Dolph

          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
          >
          > Arrogant
          >
          > I don't know, probably am.
          > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
          Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
          > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
          Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
          > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
          owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
          >
          > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
          Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
          it's first storm right now.
          >
          > Gordon Brimhall
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: gordocutter_1
          > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
          > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
          >
          >
          > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
          > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
          > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
          > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
          > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
          > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
          > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
          > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
          > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
          >
          > Adaucto Mello
          >
          > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Always somebody like you around.
          > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
          > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
          > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
          > >
          > > smile
          > >
          > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
          > >
          > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
          > on forums
          > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
          > >
          > > Gordon
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: gordocutter_1
          > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
          > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
          > >
          > >
          > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
          > was
          > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
          > boat,
          > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
          > something
          > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
          > weather
          > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
          > capsize
          > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
          > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
          > study
          > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
          > know
          > > if it's true.
          > >
          > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
          > scale
          > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
          > the
          > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
          > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
          > make a
          > > difference? To me it does not.
          > > >
          > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
          > you
          > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
          > Roberts
          > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
          > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
          > > >
          > > > Thanks for your comments
          > > >
          > > > Gordon
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > From: javadave2
          > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
          > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
          > > but
          > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
          > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
          > of
          > > the
          > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
          > your
          > > stem
          > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
          > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
          > design.
          > > It
          > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
          > > inside
          > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
          > > the
          > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
          > > built
          > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
          > > recut
          > > > to those lines.
          > > >
          > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
          > > > Dave
          > > >
          > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
          > the
          > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
          > > Spray
          > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
          > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
          > > > >
          > > > > Gordon
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > > From: javadave2
          > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
          > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
          > > > design
          > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
          > loft,
          > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
          > the
          > > > inside
          > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
          > > Are
          > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
          > > > > Dave
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
          > > <hotwizard44@>
          > > > > wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
          > <jkohnen@>
          > > > wrote:
          > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
          > > > > a 'deducted
          > > > > > body plan'?
          > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
          > the
          > > > > building of
          > > > > > a
          > > > > > > Vintage:
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > --
          > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
          > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
          > > span
          > > > of
          > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
          > > tasks,
          > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
          > common
          > > > sense
          > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Alan Boman
          Remember:- You are not old until your dreams are replaced by regrets.... Alan ... From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 11, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Remember:-



            You are not old until your dreams are replaced by regrets....





            Alan



            -----Original Message-----
            From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Gordon
            Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2008 1:34 AM
            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat



            That is OK
            I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft
            or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if I
            even live to be 81 yrs old. But that gives me 14 years in planning and
            building. Some will say that is a pipe dream but my who life has been one
            Dream after another. I have worked hard all my life making my dreams come
            true like many others I think. Even going to college later after I was
            married with 3 kids and holding down a full time job as a machinist at
            McDonald Douglas Aircraft and only getting a few hrs sleep was not easy but
            it had to be done or my future would have not been as good as it has.

            If I had room I would quote some of tristan Jones writings about having
            dreams, I saved all his books for last and they are good. "Ice" especially.
            I have read probably every cruising book available over the past 25 yrs,
            many before I ever bought my first sailboat. My insperation was Tania Aebi
            and now I share emails with her 20 yrs after she sailed around the world as
            a young 18 yrs old.

            Gordon

            Always a Dream

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Mike Dolph
            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
            Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:42 AM
            Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat

            I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
            really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
            He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
            of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
            more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

            Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
            sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
            useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
            laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

            I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
            whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
            trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
            He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

            Mike Dolph

            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
            "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
            >
            > Arrogant
            >
            > I don't know, probably am.
            > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
            Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
            > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
            Of fame http://www.slotcars <http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/>
            .org/hallofame/
            > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
            owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
            >
            > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
            Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
            it's first storm right now.
            >
            > Gordon Brimhall
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: gordocutter_1
            > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
            > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
            >
            >
            > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
            > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
            > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
            > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
            > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
            > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
            > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
            > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
            > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
            >
            > Adaucto Mello
            >
            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
            "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Always somebody like you around.
            > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
            > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
            > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
            > >
            > > smile
            > >
            > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
            > >
            > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
            > on forums
            > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
            > >
            > > Gordon
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: gordocutter_1
            > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
            > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
            > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
            > >
            > >
            > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
            > was
            > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
            > boat,
            > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
            > something
            > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
            > weather
            > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
            > capsize
            > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
            > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
            > study
            > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
            > know
            > > if it's true.
            > >
            > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
            ups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
            > scale
            > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
            > the
            > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
            > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
            > make a
            > > difference? To me it does not.
            > > >
            > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
            > you
            > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
            > Roberts
            > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
            > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
            > > >
            > > > Thanks for your comments
            > > >
            > > > Gordon
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: javadave2
            > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
            > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
            > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
            > > but
            > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
            > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
            > of
            > > the
            > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
            > your
            > > stem
            > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
            > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
            > design.
            > > It
            > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
            > > inside
            > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
            > > the
            > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
            > > built
            > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
            > > recut
            > > > to those lines.
            > > >
            > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
            > > > Dave
            > > >
            > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
            ups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
            > the
            > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
            > > Spray
            > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
            > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
            > > > >
            > > > > Gordon
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > > From: javadave2
            > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
            ups.com
            > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
            > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
            > > > design
            > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
            > loft,
            > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
            > the
            > > > inside
            > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
            > > Are
            > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
            > > > > Dave
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
            ups.com, "hotwizard44"
            > > <hotwizard44@>
            > > > > wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
            ups.com, "John Kohnen"
            > <jkohnen@>
            > > > wrote:
            > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
            > > > > a 'deducted
            > > > > > body plan'?
            > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
            > the
            > > > > building of
            > > > > > a
            > > > > > > Vintage:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee> com/6y8hee
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > --
            > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
            > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
            > > span
            > > > of
            > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
            > > tasks,
            > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
            > common
            > > > sense
            > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • gordocutter_1
            Hello Mike!How are you? Thank you for the kindly words, its seems that you reach what I was trying to say, I don t know why I was misinterpreted by Gordon but
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 13, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Mike!How are you? Thank you for the kindly words, its seems
              that you reach what I was trying to say, I don't know why I was
              misinterpreted by Gordon but I'll sure be more careful for now on
              if I make any comment on the group.

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dolph" <johndolph@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
              > really has a significantly different meaning and measure for
              Gordo.
              > He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is
              plenty
              > of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
              > more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.
              >
              > Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
              > sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
              > useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
              > laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.
              >
              > I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
              > whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's
              just
              > trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
              > He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins
              design.
              >
              > Mike Dolph
              >
              > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Arrogant
              > >
              > > I don't know, probably am.
              > > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
              > Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
              > > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car
              Hall
              > Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
              > > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs
              and
              > owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf
              game.
              > >
              > > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
              > Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
              > it's first storm right now.
              > >
              > > Gordon Brimhall
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: gordocutter_1
              > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
              > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
              > >
              > >
              > > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing
              you, or
              > > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize.
              You
              > > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment
              about
              > > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
              > > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge
              like
              > > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not
              with
              > > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can
              tell
              > > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT
              can
              > > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
              > >
              > > Adaucto Mello
              > >
              > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Always somebody like you around.
              > > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
              > > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
              > > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
              > > >
              > > > smile
              > > >
              > > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
              > > >
              > > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend
              my time
              > > on forums
              > > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
              > > >
              > > > Gordon
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > From: gordocutter_1
              > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
              > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the
              page! I
              > > was
              > > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about
              his
              > > boat,
              > > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
              > > something
              > > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
              > > weather
              > > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
              > > capsize
              > > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the
              explanation
              > > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was
              a
              > > study
              > > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web,
              don't
              > > know
              > > > if it's true.
              > > >
              > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
              > > scale
              > > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building
              it
              > > the
              > > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames
              out
              > > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does
              it
              > > make a
              > > > difference? To me it does not.
              > > > >
              > > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real
              hard
              > > you
              > > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
              > > Roberts
              > > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George
              Buehlers
              > > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks for your comments
              > > > >
              > > > > Gordon
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > > From: javadave2
              > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
              > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of
              beam,
              > > > but
              > > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing
              the
              > > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds
              off
              > > of
              > > > the
              > > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would
              change
              > > your
              > > > stem
              > > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and
              bearding
              > > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
              > > design.
              > > > It
              > > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of
              the
              > > > inside
              > > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments
              to
              > > > the
              > > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've
              already
              > > > built
              > > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them
              and
              > > > recut
              > > > > to those lines.
              > > > >
              > > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
              > > > > Dave
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@>
              wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking
              from
              > > the
              > > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh
              Slocum
              > > > Spray
              > > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra
              1/2"
              > > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Gordon
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > > > From: javadave2
              > > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
              > > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with
              most
              > > > > design
              > > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
              > > loft,
              > > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn
              to
              > > the
              > > > > inside
              > > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these
              lines.
              > > > Are
              > > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
              > > > > > Dave
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
              > > > <hotwizard44@>
              > > > > > wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
              > > <jkohnen@>
              > > > > wrote:
              > > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting.
              What's
              > > > > > a 'deducted
              > > > > > > body plan'?
              > > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay
              of
              > > the
              > > > > > building of
              > > > > > > a
              > > > > > > > Vintage:
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > --
              > > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
              > > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the
              whole
              > > > span
              > > > > of
              > > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull,
              unintelligible
              > > > tasks,
              > > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
              > > common
              > > > > sense
              > > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • javadave2
              Hope to see you at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat festival! We just got the sail fitted yesterday and should have the Magic Wing there Friday morning:
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 1, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Hope to see you at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat festival! We just
                got the sail fitted yesterday and should have the Magic Wing there
                Friday morning:

                http://www.woodenboat.org/boats/Boat_Detail.aspx?processID=561

                Pictures will be posted to the site next week.

                Dave

                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                >
                > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the building
                of a
                > Vintage:
                >
                > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                >
                > They're doing it Right!
                >
                > --
                > John <jkohnen@...>
                > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
                > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
                > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
                > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                >
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