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Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat

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  • gordocutter_1
    What a tremendous challenge you re going into! I saw the page! I was always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his boat, after all lots of
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 10 9:16 AM
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      What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I was
      always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his boat,
      after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read something
      disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of weather
      a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can capsize
      and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
      about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a study
      made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't know
      if it's true.

      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
      >
      > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale
      that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the
      old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
      deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a
      difference? To me it does not.
      >
      > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you
      can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts
      Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
      methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
      >
      > Thanks for your comments
      >
      > Gordon
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: javadave2
      > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
      > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
      >
      >
      > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
      but
      > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
      > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of
      the
      > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your
      stem
      > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
      > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design.
      It
      > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
      inside
      > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
      the
      > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
      built
      > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
      recut
      > to those lines.
      >
      > Good luck, hope this helps!
      > Dave
      >
      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
      > >
      > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
      > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
      Spray
      > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
      > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
      > >
      > > Gordon
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: javadave2
      > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
      > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
      > >
      > >
      > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
      > design
      > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
      > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
      > inside
      > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
      Are
      > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
      > > Dave
      > >
      > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
      <hotwizard44@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
      > wrote:
      > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
      > > a 'deducted
      > > > body plan'?
      > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
      > > building of
      > > > a
      > > > > Vintage:
      > > > >
      > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
      > > > >
      > > > > They're doing it Right!
      > > > >
      > > > > --
      > > > > John <jkohnen@>
      > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
      span
      > of
      > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
      tasks,
      > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
      > sense
      > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Gordon
      Always somebody like you around. Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it has 1/4th the same chances to capsize But it also has positive flotation and will
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 10 9:54 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Always somebody like you around.
        Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
        has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
        But it also has positive flotation and will not sink

        smile

        So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?

        I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time on forums
        telling other people their boat is going to sink

        Gordon



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: gordocutter_1
        To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
        Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


        What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I was
        always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his boat,
        after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read something
        disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of weather
        a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can capsize
        and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
        about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a study
        made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't know
        if it's true.

        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
        >
        > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale
        that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the
        old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
        deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a
        difference? To me it does not.
        >
        > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you
        can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts
        Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
        methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
        >
        > Thanks for your comments
        >
        > Gordon
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: javadave2
        > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
        > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
        >
        >
        > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
        but
        > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
        > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of
        the
        > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your
        stem
        > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
        > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design.
        It
        > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
        inside
        > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
        the
        > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
        built
        > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
        recut
        > to those lines.
        >
        > Good luck, hope this helps!
        > Dave
        >
        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
        > >
        > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
        > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
        Spray
        > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
        > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
        > >
        > > Gordon
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: javadave2
        > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
        > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
        > >
        > >
        > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
        > design
        > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
        > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
        > inside
        > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
        Are
        > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
        > > Dave
        > >
        > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
        <hotwizard44@>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
        > wrote:
        > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
        > > a 'deducted
        > > > body plan'?
        > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
        > > building of
        > > > a
        > > > > Vintage:
        > > > >
        > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
        > > > >
        > > > > They're doing it Right!
        > > > >
        > > > > --
        > > > > John <jkohnen@>
        > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
        span
        > of
        > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
        tasks,
        > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
        > sense
        > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • gordocutter_1
        You understand everything wrong buddy! I m not criticizing you, or telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You don t need to be
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 10 6:11 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
          telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
          don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
          an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
          trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
          yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
          my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
          you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
          kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.

          Adaucto Mello



          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
          >
          > Always somebody like you around.
          > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
          > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
          > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
          >
          > smile
          >
          > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
          >
          > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
          on forums
          > telling other people their boat is going to sink
          >
          > Gordon
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: gordocutter_1
          > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
          > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
          >
          >
          > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
          was
          > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
          boat,
          > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
          something
          > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
          weather
          > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
          capsize
          > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
          > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
          study
          > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
          know
          > if it's true.
          >
          > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
          scale
          > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
          the
          > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
          > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
          make a
          > difference? To me it does not.
          > >
          > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
          you
          > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
          Roberts
          > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
          > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
          > >
          > > Thanks for your comments
          > >
          > > Gordon
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: javadave2
          > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
          > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
          > >
          > >
          > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
          > but
          > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
          > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
          of
          > the
          > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
          your
          > stem
          > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
          > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
          design.
          > It
          > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
          > inside
          > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
          > the
          > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
          > built
          > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
          > recut
          > > to those lines.
          > >
          > > Good luck, hope this helps!
          > > Dave
          > >
          > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
          the
          > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
          > Spray
          > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
          > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
          > > >
          > > > Gordon
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > From: javadave2
          > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
          > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
          > > design
          > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
          loft,
          > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
          the
          > > inside
          > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
          > Are
          > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
          > > > Dave
          > > >
          > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
          > <hotwizard44@>
          > > > wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
          <jkohnen@>
          > > wrote:
          > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
          > > > a 'deducted
          > > > > body plan'?
          > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
          the
          > > > building of
          > > > > a
          > > > > > Vintage:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
          > > > > >
          > > > > > They're doing it Right!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --
          > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
          > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
          > span
          > > of
          > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
          > tasks,
          > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
          common
          > > sense
          > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Gordon
          Arrogant I don t know, probably am. I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker, Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG (Slot Cars). That
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 10 7:06 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Arrogant

            I don't know, probably am.
            I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker, Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
            (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
            Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.

            You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through it's first storm right now.

            Gordon Brimhall


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: gordocutter_1
            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
            Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


            You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
            telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
            don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
            an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
            trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
            yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
            my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
            you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
            kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.

            Adaucto Mello

            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
            >
            > Always somebody like you around.
            > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
            > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
            > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
            >
            > smile
            >
            > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
            >
            > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
            on forums
            > telling other people their boat is going to sink
            >
            > Gordon
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: gordocutter_1
            > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
            > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
            >
            >
            > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
            was
            > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
            boat,
            > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
            something
            > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
            weather
            > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
            capsize
            > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
            > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
            study
            > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
            know
            > if it's true.
            >
            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
            scale
            > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
            the
            > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
            > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
            make a
            > difference? To me it does not.
            > >
            > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
            you
            > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
            Roberts
            > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
            > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
            > >
            > > Thanks for your comments
            > >
            > > Gordon
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: javadave2
            > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
            > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
            > >
            > >
            > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
            > but
            > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
            > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
            of
            > the
            > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
            your
            > stem
            > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
            > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
            design.
            > It
            > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
            > inside
            > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
            > the
            > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
            > built
            > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
            > recut
            > > to those lines.
            > >
            > > Good luck, hope this helps!
            > > Dave
            > >
            > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
            the
            > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
            > Spray
            > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
            > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
            > > >
            > > > Gordon
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: javadave2
            > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
            > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
            > > design
            > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
            loft,
            > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
            the
            > > inside
            > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
            > Are
            > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
            > > > Dave
            > > >
            > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
            > <hotwizard44@>
            > > > wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
            <jkohnen@>
            > > wrote:
            > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
            > > > a 'deducted
            > > > > body plan'?
            > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
            the
            > > > building of
            > > > > a
            > > > > > Vintage:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
            > > > > >
            > > > > > They're doing it Right!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --
            > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
            > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
            > span
            > > of
            > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
            > tasks,
            > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
            common
            > > sense
            > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mike Dolph
            I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo. He s a Brazilian who s
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 11 8:42 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
              really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
              He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
              of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
              more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

              Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
              sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
              useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
              laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

              I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
              whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
              trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
              He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

              Mike Dolph

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
              >
              > Arrogant
              >
              > I don't know, probably am.
              > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
              Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
              > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
              Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
              > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
              owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
              >
              > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
              Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
              it's first storm right now.
              >
              > Gordon Brimhall
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: gordocutter_1
              > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
              > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
              >
              >
              > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
              > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
              > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
              > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
              > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
              > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
              > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
              > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
              > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
              >
              > Adaucto Mello
              >
              > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Always somebody like you around.
              > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
              > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
              > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
              > >
              > > smile
              > >
              > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
              > >
              > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
              > on forums
              > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
              > >
              > > Gordon
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: gordocutter_1
              > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
              > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
              > >
              > >
              > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
              > was
              > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
              > boat,
              > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
              > something
              > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
              > weather
              > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
              > capsize
              > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
              > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
              > study
              > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
              > know
              > > if it's true.
              > >
              > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
              > scale
              > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
              > the
              > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
              > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
              > make a
              > > difference? To me it does not.
              > > >
              > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
              > you
              > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
              > Roberts
              > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
              > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
              > > >
              > > > Thanks for your comments
              > > >
              > > > Gordon
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > From: javadave2
              > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
              > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
              > > but
              > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
              > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
              > of
              > > the
              > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
              > your
              > > stem
              > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
              > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
              > design.
              > > It
              > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
              > > inside
              > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
              > > the
              > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
              > > built
              > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
              > > recut
              > > > to those lines.
              > > >
              > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
              > > > Dave
              > > >
              > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
              > the
              > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
              > > Spray
              > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
              > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
              > > > >
              > > > > Gordon
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > > From: javadave2
              > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
              > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
              > > > design
              > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
              > loft,
              > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
              > the
              > > > inside
              > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
              > > Are
              > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
              > > > > Dave
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
              > > <hotwizard44@>
              > > > > wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
              > <jkohnen@>
              > > > wrote:
              > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
              > > > > a 'deducted
              > > > > > body plan'?
              > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
              > the
              > > > > building of
              > > > > > a
              > > > > > > Vintage:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > --
              > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
              > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
              > > span
              > > > of
              > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
              > > tasks,
              > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
              > common
              > > > sense
              > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Gordon
              That is OK I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 11 9:03 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                That is OK
                I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if I even live to be 81 yrs old. But that gives me 14 years in planning and building. Some will say that is a pipe dream but my who life has been one Dream after another. I have worked hard all my life making my dreams come true like many others I think. Even going to college later after I was married with 3 kids and holding down a full time job as a machinist at McDonald Douglas Aircraft and only getting a few hrs sleep was not easy but it had to be done or my future would have not been as good as it has.

                If I had room I would quote some of tristan Jones writings about having dreams, I saved all his books for last and they are good. "Ice" especially. I have read probably every cruising book available over the past 25 yrs, many before I ever bought my first sailboat. My insperation was Tania Aebi and now I share emails with her 20 yrs after she sailed around the world as a young 18 yrs old.

                Gordon

                Always a Dream


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Mike Dolph
                To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:42 AM
                Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
                He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
                of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

                Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

                I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
                trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

                Mike Dolph

                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                >
                > Arrogant
                >
                > I don't know, probably am.
                > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
                Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
                owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
                >
                > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                it's first storm right now.
                >
                > Gordon Brimhall
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: gordocutter_1
                > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                >
                >
                > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                >
                > Adaucto Mello
                >
                > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Always somebody like you around.
                > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                > >
                > > smile
                > >
                > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                > >
                > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                > on forums
                > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                > >
                > > Gordon
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: gordocutter_1
                > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                > >
                > >
                > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                > was
                > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                > boat,
                > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                > something
                > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                > weather
                > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                > capsize
                > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                > study
                > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                > know
                > > if it's true.
                > >
                > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                > scale
                > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                > the
                > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                > make a
                > > difference? To me it does not.
                > > >
                > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                > you
                > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                > Roberts
                > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                > > >
                > > > Thanks for your comments
                > > >
                > > > Gordon
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > From: javadave2
                > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                > > but
                > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                > of
                > > the
                > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                > your
                > > stem
                > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                > design.
                > > It
                > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                > > inside
                > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                > > the
                > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                > > built
                > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                > > recut
                > > > to those lines.
                > > >
                > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                > > > Dave
                > > >
                > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                > the
                > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                > > Spray
                > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                > > > >
                > > > > Gordon
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > > From: javadave2
                > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                > > > design
                > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                > loft,
                > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                > the
                > > > inside
                > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                > > Are
                > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                > > > > Dave
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                > > <hotwizard44@>
                > > > > wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                > <jkohnen@>
                > > > wrote:
                > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                > > > > a 'deducted
                > > > > > body plan'?
                > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                > the
                > > > > building of
                > > > > > a
                > > > > > > Vintage:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > --
                > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                > > span
                > > > of
                > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                > > tasks,
                > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                > common
                > > > sense
                > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Alan Boman
                Remember:- You are not old until your dreams are replaced by regrets.... Alan ... From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 11 4:31 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Remember:-



                  You are not old until your dreams are replaced by regrets....





                  Alan



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Gordon
                  Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2008 1:34 AM
                  To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat



                  That is OK
                  I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft
                  or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if I
                  even live to be 81 yrs old. But that gives me 14 years in planning and
                  building. Some will say that is a pipe dream but my who life has been one
                  Dream after another. I have worked hard all my life making my dreams come
                  true like many others I think. Even going to college later after I was
                  married with 3 kids and holding down a full time job as a machinist at
                  McDonald Douglas Aircraft and only getting a few hrs sleep was not easy but
                  it had to be done or my future would have not been as good as it has.

                  If I had room I would quote some of tristan Jones writings about having
                  dreams, I saved all his books for last and they are good. "Ice" especially.
                  I have read probably every cruising book available over the past 25 yrs,
                  many before I ever bought my first sailboat. My insperation was Tania Aebi
                  and now I share emails with her 20 yrs after she sailed around the world as
                  a young 18 yrs old.

                  Gordon

                  Always a Dream

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Mike Dolph
                  To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                  Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:42 AM
                  Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat

                  I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                  really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
                  He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
                  of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                  more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

                  Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                  sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                  useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                  laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

                  I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                  whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
                  trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                  He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

                  Mike Dolph

                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
                  "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Arrogant
                  >
                  > I don't know, probably am.
                  > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                  Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                  > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
                  Of fame http://www.slotcars <http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/>
                  .org/hallofame/
                  > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
                  owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
                  >
                  > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                  Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                  it's first storm right now.
                  >
                  > Gordon Brimhall
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: gordocutter_1
                  > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                  > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                  > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                  >
                  >
                  > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                  > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                  > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                  > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                  > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                  > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                  > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                  > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                  > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                  >
                  > Adaucto Mello
                  >
                  > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
                  "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Always somebody like you around.
                  > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                  > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                  > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                  > >
                  > > smile
                  > >
                  > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                  > >
                  > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                  > on forums
                  > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                  > >
                  > > Gordon
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: gordocutter_1
                  > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                  > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                  > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                  > was
                  > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                  > boat,
                  > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                  > something
                  > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                  > weather
                  > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                  > capsize
                  > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                  > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                  > study
                  > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                  > know
                  > > if it's true.
                  > >
                  > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                  ups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                  > scale
                  > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                  > the
                  > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                  > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                  > make a
                  > > difference? To me it does not.
                  > > >
                  > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                  > you
                  > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                  > Roberts
                  > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                  > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks for your comments
                  > > >
                  > > > Gordon
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > From: javadave2
                  > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                  > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                  > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                  > > but
                  > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                  > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                  > of
                  > > the
                  > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                  > your
                  > > stem
                  > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                  > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                  > design.
                  > > It
                  > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                  > > inside
                  > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                  > > the
                  > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                  > > built
                  > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                  > > recut
                  > > > to those lines.
                  > > >
                  > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                  > > > Dave
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                  ups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                  > the
                  > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                  > > Spray
                  > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                  > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Gordon
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > > From: javadave2
                  > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                  ups.com
                  > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                  > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                  > > > design
                  > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                  > loft,
                  > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                  > the
                  > > > inside
                  > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                  > > Are
                  > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                  > > > > Dave
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                  ups.com, "hotwizard44"
                  > > <hotwizard44@>
                  > > > > wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                  ups.com, "John Kohnen"
                  > <jkohnen@>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                  > > > > a 'deducted
                  > > > > > body plan'?
                  > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                  > the
                  > > > > building of
                  > > > > > a
                  > > > > > > Vintage:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee> com/6y8hee
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > --
                  > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                  > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                  > > span
                  > > > of
                  > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                  > > tasks,
                  > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                  > common
                  > > > sense
                  > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • gordocutter_1
                  Hello Mike!How are you? Thank you for the kindly words, its seems that you reach what I was trying to say, I don t know why I was misinterpreted by Gordon but
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 13 9:02 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello Mike!How are you? Thank you for the kindly words, its seems
                    that you reach what I was trying to say, I don't know why I was
                    misinterpreted by Gordon but I'll sure be more careful for now on
                    if I make any comment on the group.

                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dolph" <johndolph@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                    > really has a significantly different meaning and measure for
                    Gordo.
                    > He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is
                    plenty
                    > of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                    > more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.
                    >
                    > Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                    > sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                    > useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                    > laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.
                    >
                    > I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                    > whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's
                    just
                    > trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                    > He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins
                    design.
                    >
                    > Mike Dolph
                    >
                    > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Arrogant
                    > >
                    > > I don't know, probably am.
                    > > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                    > Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                    > > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car
                    Hall
                    > Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                    > > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs
                    and
                    > owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf
                    game.
                    > >
                    > > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                    > Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                    > it's first storm right now.
                    > >
                    > > Gordon Brimhall
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: gordocutter_1
                    > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                    > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing
                    you, or
                    > > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize.
                    You
                    > > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment
                    about
                    > > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                    > > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge
                    like
                    > > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not
                    with
                    > > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can
                    tell
                    > > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT
                    can
                    > > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                    > >
                    > > Adaucto Mello
                    > >
                    > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Always somebody like you around.
                    > > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                    > > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                    > > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                    > > >
                    > > > smile
                    > > >
                    > > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                    > > >
                    > > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend
                    my time
                    > > on forums
                    > > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                    > > >
                    > > > Gordon
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > From: gordocutter_1
                    > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                    > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the
                    page! I
                    > > was
                    > > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about
                    his
                    > > boat,
                    > > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                    > > something
                    > > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                    > > weather
                    > > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                    > > capsize
                    > > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the
                    explanation
                    > > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was
                    a
                    > > study
                    > > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web,
                    don't
                    > > know
                    > > > if it's true.
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                    > > scale
                    > > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building
                    it
                    > > the
                    > > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames
                    out
                    > > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does
                    it
                    > > make a
                    > > > difference? To me it does not.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real
                    hard
                    > > you
                    > > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                    > > Roberts
                    > > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George
                    Buehlers
                    > > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Thanks for your comments
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Gordon
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > > From: javadave2
                    > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                    > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of
                    beam,
                    > > > but
                    > > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing
                    the
                    > > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds
                    off
                    > > of
                    > > > the
                    > > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would
                    change
                    > > your
                    > > > stem
                    > > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and
                    bearding
                    > > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                    > > design.
                    > > > It
                    > > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of
                    the
                    > > > inside
                    > > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments
                    to
                    > > > the
                    > > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've
                    already
                    > > > built
                    > > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them
                    and
                    > > > recut
                    > > > > to those lines.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                    > > > > Dave
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@>
                    wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking
                    from
                    > > the
                    > > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh
                    Slocum
                    > > > Spray
                    > > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra
                    1/2"
                    > > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Gordon
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > > > From: javadave2
                    > > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                    > > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with
                    most
                    > > > > design
                    > > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                    > > loft,
                    > > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn
                    to
                    > > the
                    > > > > inside
                    > > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these
                    lines.
                    > > > Are
                    > > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                    > > > > > Dave
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                    > > > <hotwizard44@>
                    > > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                    > > <jkohnen@>
                    > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting.
                    What's
                    > > > > > a 'deducted
                    > > > > > > body plan'?
                    > > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay
                    of
                    > > the
                    > > > > > building of
                    > > > > > > a
                    > > > > > > > Vintage:
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > --
                    > > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                    > > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the
                    whole
                    > > > span
                    > > > > of
                    > > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull,
                    unintelligible
                    > > > tasks,
                    > > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                    > > common
                    > > > > sense
                    > > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                  • javadave2
                    Hope to see you at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat festival! We just got the sail fitted yesterday and should have the Magic Wing there Friday morning:
                    Message 9 of 22 , Sep 1, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hope to see you at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat festival! We just
                      got the sail fitted yesterday and should have the Magic Wing there
                      Friday morning:

                      http://www.woodenboat.org/boats/Boat_Detail.aspx?processID=561

                      Pictures will be posted to the site next week.

                      Dave

                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the building
                      of a
                      > Vintage:
                      >
                      > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                      >
                      > They're doing it Right!
                      >
                      > --
                      > John <jkohnen@...>
                      > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
                      > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
                      > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
                      > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                      >
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