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Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat

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  • Gordon
    Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1 = 1 ft scale that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the old way plank on frame multi
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
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      Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a difference? To me it does not.

      This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org

      Thanks for your comments

      Gordon


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: javadave2
      To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
      Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


      Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam, but
      you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
      deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of the
      outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your stem
      and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
      lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design. It
      probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the inside
      of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to the
      keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already built
      your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and recut
      to those lines.

      Good luck, hope this helps!
      Dave

      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
      >
      > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
      layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum Spray
      and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
      planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
      >
      > Gordon
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: javadave2
      > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
      > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
      >
      >
      > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
      design
      > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
      > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
      inside
      > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines. Are
      > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
      > Dave
      >
      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44" <hotwizard44@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
      wrote:
      > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
      > a 'deducted
      > > body plan'?
      > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
      > building of
      > > a
      > > > Vintage:
      > > >
      > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
      > > >
      > > > They're doing it Right!
      > > >
      > > > --
      > > > John <jkohnen@>
      > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span
      of
      > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
      > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
      sense
      > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • javadave2
      Sounds like an interesting project on the famous boat, I ll keep an eye at the site, good luck! Dave ... that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from.
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Sounds like an interesting project on the famous boat, I'll keep an
        eye at the site, good luck!

        Dave

        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
        >
        > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale
        that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the
        old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
        deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a
        difference? To me it does not.
        >
        > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you
        can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts
        Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
        methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
        >
        > Thanks for your comments
        >
        > Gordon
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: javadave2
        > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
        > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
        >
        >
        > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
        but
        > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
        > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of
        the
        > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your
        stem
        > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
        > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design.
        It
        > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
        inside
        > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to the
        > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
        built
        > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
        recut
        > to those lines.
        >
        > Good luck, hope this helps!
        > Dave
        >
        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
        > >
        > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
        > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
        Spray
        > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
        > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
        > >
        > > Gordon
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: javadave2
        > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
        > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
        > >
        > >
        > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
        > design
        > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
        > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
        > inside
        > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines. Are
        > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
        > > Dave
        > >
        > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44" <hotwizard44@>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
        > wrote:
        > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
        > > a 'deducted
        > > > body plan'?
        > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
        > > building of
        > > > a
        > > > > Vintage:
        > > > >
        > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
        > > > >
        > > > > They're doing it Right!
        > > > >
        > > > > --
        > > > > John <jkohnen@>
        > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
        span
        > of
        > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
        tasks,
        > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
        > sense
        > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • gordocutter_1
        What a tremendous challenge you re going into! I saw the page! I was always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his boat, after all lots of
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 10, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I was
          always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his boat,
          after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read something
          disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of weather
          a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can capsize
          and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
          about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a study
          made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't know
          if it's true.

          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
          >
          > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale
          that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the
          old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
          deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a
          difference? To me it does not.
          >
          > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you
          can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts
          Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
          methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
          >
          > Thanks for your comments
          >
          > Gordon
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: javadave2
          > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
          > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
          >
          >
          > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
          but
          > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
          > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of
          the
          > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your
          stem
          > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
          > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design.
          It
          > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
          inside
          > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
          the
          > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
          built
          > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
          recut
          > to those lines.
          >
          > Good luck, hope this helps!
          > Dave
          >
          > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
          > >
          > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
          > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
          Spray
          > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
          > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
          > >
          > > Gordon
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: javadave2
          > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
          > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
          > >
          > >
          > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
          > design
          > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
          > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
          > inside
          > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
          Are
          > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
          > > Dave
          > >
          > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
          <hotwizard44@>
          > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
          > wrote:
          > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
          > > a 'deducted
          > > > body plan'?
          > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
          > > building of
          > > > a
          > > > > Vintage:
          > > > >
          > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
          > > > >
          > > > > They're doing it Right!
          > > > >
          > > > > --
          > > > > John <jkohnen@>
          > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
          span
          > of
          > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
          tasks,
          > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
          > sense
          > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Gordon
          Always somebody like you around. Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it has 1/4th the same chances to capsize But it also has positive flotation and will
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 10, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Always somebody like you around.
            Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
            has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
            But it also has positive flotation and will not sink

            smile

            So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?

            I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time on forums
            telling other people their boat is going to sink

            Gordon



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: gordocutter_1
            To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
            Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


            What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I was
            always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his boat,
            after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read something
            disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of weather
            a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can capsize
            and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
            about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a study
            made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't know
            if it's true.

            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
            >
            > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale
            that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the
            old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
            deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a
            difference? To me it does not.
            >
            > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you
            can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts
            Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
            methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
            >
            > Thanks for your comments
            >
            > Gordon
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: javadave2
            > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
            > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
            >
            >
            > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
            but
            > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
            > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of
            the
            > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your
            stem
            > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
            > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design.
            It
            > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
            inside
            > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
            the
            > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
            built
            > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
            recut
            > to those lines.
            >
            > Good luck, hope this helps!
            > Dave
            >
            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
            > >
            > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
            > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
            Spray
            > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
            > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
            > >
            > > Gordon
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: javadave2
            > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
            > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
            > >
            > >
            > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
            > design
            > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
            > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
            > inside
            > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
            Are
            > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
            > > Dave
            > >
            > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
            <hotwizard44@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
            > wrote:
            > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
            > > a 'deducted
            > > > body plan'?
            > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
            > > building of
            > > > a
            > > > > Vintage:
            > > > >
            > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
            > > > >
            > > > > They're doing it Right!
            > > > >
            > > > > --
            > > > > John <jkohnen@>
            > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
            span
            > of
            > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
            tasks,
            > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
            > sense
            > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • gordocutter_1
            You understand everything wrong buddy! I m not criticizing you, or telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You don t need to be
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 10, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
              telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
              don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
              an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
              trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
              yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
              my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
              you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
              kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.

              Adaucto Mello



              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
              >
              > Always somebody like you around.
              > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
              > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
              > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
              >
              > smile
              >
              > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
              >
              > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
              on forums
              > telling other people their boat is going to sink
              >
              > Gordon
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: gordocutter_1
              > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
              > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
              >
              >
              > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
              was
              > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
              boat,
              > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
              something
              > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
              weather
              > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
              capsize
              > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
              > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
              study
              > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
              know
              > if it's true.
              >
              > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
              scale
              > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
              the
              > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
              > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
              make a
              > difference? To me it does not.
              > >
              > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
              you
              > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
              Roberts
              > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
              > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
              > >
              > > Thanks for your comments
              > >
              > > Gordon
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: javadave2
              > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
              > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
              > >
              > >
              > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
              > but
              > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
              > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
              of
              > the
              > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
              your
              > stem
              > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
              > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
              design.
              > It
              > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
              > inside
              > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
              > the
              > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
              > built
              > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
              > recut
              > > to those lines.
              > >
              > > Good luck, hope this helps!
              > > Dave
              > >
              > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
              the
              > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
              > Spray
              > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
              > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
              > > >
              > > > Gordon
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > From: javadave2
              > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
              > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
              > > design
              > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
              loft,
              > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
              the
              > > inside
              > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
              > Are
              > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
              > > > Dave
              > > >
              > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
              > <hotwizard44@>
              > > > wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
              <jkohnen@>
              > > wrote:
              > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
              > > > a 'deducted
              > > > > body plan'?
              > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
              the
              > > > building of
              > > > > a
              > > > > > Vintage:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
              > > > > >
              > > > > > They're doing it Right!
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --
              > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
              > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
              > span
              > > of
              > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
              > tasks,
              > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
              common
              > > sense
              > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Gordon
              Arrogant I don t know, probably am. I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker, Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG (Slot Cars). That
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 10, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Arrogant

                I don't know, probably am.
                I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker, Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.

                You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through it's first storm right now.

                Gordon Brimhall


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: gordocutter_1
                To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.

                Adaucto Mello

                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                >
                > Always somebody like you around.
                > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                >
                > smile
                >
                > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                >
                > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                on forums
                > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                >
                > Gordon
                >
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: gordocutter_1
                > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                >
                >
                > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                was
                > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                boat,
                > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                something
                > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                weather
                > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                capsize
                > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                study
                > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                know
                > if it's true.
                >
                > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                scale
                > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                the
                > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                make a
                > difference? To me it does not.
                > >
                > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                you
                > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                Roberts
                > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                > >
                > > Thanks for your comments
                > >
                > > Gordon
                > >
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: javadave2
                > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                > >
                > >
                > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                > but
                > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                of
                > the
                > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                your
                > stem
                > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                design.
                > It
                > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                > inside
                > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                > the
                > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                > built
                > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                > recut
                > > to those lines.
                > >
                > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                > > Dave
                > >
                > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                the
                > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                > Spray
                > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                > > >
                > > > Gordon
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > From: javadave2
                > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                > > design
                > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                loft,
                > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                the
                > > inside
                > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                > Are
                > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                > > > Dave
                > > >
                > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                > <hotwizard44@>
                > > > wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                <jkohnen@>
                > > wrote:
                > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                > > > a 'deducted
                > > > > body plan'?
                > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                the
                > > > building of
                > > > > a
                > > > > > Vintage:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                > > > > >
                > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --
                > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                > span
                > > of
                > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                > tasks,
                > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                common
                > > sense
                > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mike Dolph
                I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo. He s a Brazilian who s
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 11, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                  really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
                  He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
                  of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                  more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

                  Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                  sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                  useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                  laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

                  I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                  whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
                  trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                  He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

                  Mike Dolph

                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Arrogant
                  >
                  > I don't know, probably am.
                  > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                  Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                  > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
                  Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                  > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
                  owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
                  >
                  > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                  Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                  it's first storm right now.
                  >
                  > Gordon Brimhall
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: gordocutter_1
                  > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                  > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                  >
                  >
                  > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                  > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                  > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                  > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                  > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                  > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                  > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                  > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                  > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                  >
                  > Adaucto Mello
                  >
                  > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Always somebody like you around.
                  > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                  > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                  > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                  > >
                  > > smile
                  > >
                  > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                  > >
                  > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                  > on forums
                  > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                  > >
                  > > Gordon
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: gordocutter_1
                  > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                  > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                  > was
                  > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                  > boat,
                  > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                  > something
                  > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                  > weather
                  > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                  > capsize
                  > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                  > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                  > study
                  > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                  > know
                  > > if it's true.
                  > >
                  > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                  > scale
                  > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                  > the
                  > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                  > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                  > make a
                  > > difference? To me it does not.
                  > > >
                  > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                  > you
                  > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                  > Roberts
                  > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                  > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks for your comments
                  > > >
                  > > > Gordon
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > From: javadave2
                  > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                  > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                  > > but
                  > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                  > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                  > of
                  > > the
                  > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                  > your
                  > > stem
                  > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                  > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                  > design.
                  > > It
                  > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                  > > inside
                  > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                  > > the
                  > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                  > > built
                  > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                  > > recut
                  > > > to those lines.
                  > > >
                  > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                  > > > Dave
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                  > the
                  > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                  > > Spray
                  > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                  > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Gordon
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > > From: javadave2
                  > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                  > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                  > > > design
                  > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                  > loft,
                  > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                  > the
                  > > > inside
                  > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                  > > Are
                  > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                  > > > > Dave
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                  > > <hotwizard44@>
                  > > > > wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                  > <jkohnen@>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                  > > > > a 'deducted
                  > > > > > body plan'?
                  > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                  > the
                  > > > > building of
                  > > > > > a
                  > > > > > > Vintage:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > --
                  > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                  > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                  > > span
                  > > > of
                  > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                  > > tasks,
                  > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                  > common
                  > > > sense
                  > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Gordon
                  That is OK I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 11, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    That is OK
                    I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if I even live to be 81 yrs old. But that gives me 14 years in planning and building. Some will say that is a pipe dream but my who life has been one Dream after another. I have worked hard all my life making my dreams come true like many others I think. Even going to college later after I was married with 3 kids and holding down a full time job as a machinist at McDonald Douglas Aircraft and only getting a few hrs sleep was not easy but it had to be done or my future would have not been as good as it has.

                    If I had room I would quote some of tristan Jones writings about having dreams, I saved all his books for last and they are good. "Ice" especially. I have read probably every cruising book available over the past 25 yrs, many before I ever bought my first sailboat. My insperation was Tania Aebi and now I share emails with her 20 yrs after she sailed around the world as a young 18 yrs old.

                    Gordon

                    Always a Dream


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Mike Dolph
                    To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:42 AM
                    Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                    I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                    really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
                    He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
                    of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                    more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

                    Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                    sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                    useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                    laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

                    I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                    whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
                    trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                    He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

                    Mike Dolph

                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Arrogant
                    >
                    > I don't know, probably am.
                    > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                    Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                    > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
                    Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                    > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
                    owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
                    >
                    > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                    Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                    it's first storm right now.
                    >
                    > Gordon Brimhall
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: gordocutter_1
                    > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                    > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                    >
                    >
                    > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                    > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                    > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                    > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                    > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                    > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                    > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                    > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                    > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                    >
                    > Adaucto Mello
                    >
                    > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Always somebody like you around.
                    > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                    > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                    > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                    > >
                    > > smile
                    > >
                    > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                    > >
                    > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                    > on forums
                    > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                    > >
                    > > Gordon
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: gordocutter_1
                    > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                    > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                    > was
                    > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                    > boat,
                    > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                    > something
                    > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                    > weather
                    > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                    > capsize
                    > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                    > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                    > study
                    > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                    > know
                    > > if it's true.
                    > >
                    > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                    > scale
                    > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                    > the
                    > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                    > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                    > make a
                    > > difference? To me it does not.
                    > > >
                    > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                    > you
                    > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                    > Roberts
                    > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                    > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks for your comments
                    > > >
                    > > > Gordon
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > From: javadave2
                    > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                    > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                    > > but
                    > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                    > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                    > of
                    > > the
                    > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                    > your
                    > > stem
                    > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                    > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                    > design.
                    > > It
                    > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                    > > inside
                    > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                    > > the
                    > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                    > > built
                    > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                    > > recut
                    > > > to those lines.
                    > > >
                    > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                    > > > Dave
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                    > the
                    > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                    > > Spray
                    > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                    > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Gordon
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > > From: javadave2
                    > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                    > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                    > > > design
                    > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                    > loft,
                    > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                    > the
                    > > > inside
                    > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                    > > Are
                    > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                    > > > > Dave
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                    > > <hotwizard44@>
                    > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                    > <jkohnen@>
                    > > > wrote:
                    > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                    > > > > a 'deducted
                    > > > > > body plan'?
                    > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                    > the
                    > > > > building of
                    > > > > > a
                    > > > > > > Vintage:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > --
                    > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                    > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                    > > span
                    > > > of
                    > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                    > > tasks,
                    > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                    > common
                    > > > sense
                    > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Alan Boman
                    Remember:- You are not old until your dreams are replaced by regrets.... Alan ... From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 11, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Remember:-



                      You are not old until your dreams are replaced by regrets....





                      Alan



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Gordon
                      Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2008 1:34 AM
                      To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat



                      That is OK
                      I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft
                      or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if I
                      even live to be 81 yrs old. But that gives me 14 years in planning and
                      building. Some will say that is a pipe dream but my who life has been one
                      Dream after another. I have worked hard all my life making my dreams come
                      true like many others I think. Even going to college later after I was
                      married with 3 kids and holding down a full time job as a machinist at
                      McDonald Douglas Aircraft and only getting a few hrs sleep was not easy but
                      it had to be done or my future would have not been as good as it has.

                      If I had room I would quote some of tristan Jones writings about having
                      dreams, I saved all his books for last and they are good. "Ice" especially.
                      I have read probably every cruising book available over the past 25 yrs,
                      many before I ever bought my first sailboat. My insperation was Tania Aebi
                      and now I share emails with her 20 yrs after she sailed around the world as
                      a young 18 yrs old.

                      Gordon

                      Always a Dream

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Mike Dolph
                      To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                      Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:42 AM
                      Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat

                      I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                      really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
                      He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
                      of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                      more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

                      Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                      sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                      useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                      laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

                      I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                      whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
                      trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                      He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

                      Mike Dolph

                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
                      "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Arrogant
                      >
                      > I don't know, probably am.
                      > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                      Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                      > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
                      Of fame http://www.slotcars <http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/>
                      .org/hallofame/
                      > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
                      owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
                      >
                      > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                      Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                      it's first storm right now.
                      >
                      > Gordon Brimhall
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: gordocutter_1
                      > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                      > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                      >
                      >
                      > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                      > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                      > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                      > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                      > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                      > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                      > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                      > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                      > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                      >
                      > Adaucto Mello
                      >
                      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
                      "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Always somebody like you around.
                      > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                      > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                      > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                      > >
                      > > smile
                      > >
                      > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                      > >
                      > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                      > on forums
                      > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                      > >
                      > > Gordon
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: gordocutter_1
                      > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                      > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                      > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                      > was
                      > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                      > boat,
                      > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                      > something
                      > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                      > weather
                      > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                      > capsize
                      > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                      > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                      > study
                      > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                      > know
                      > > if it's true.
                      > >
                      > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                      ups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                      > scale
                      > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                      > the
                      > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                      > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                      > make a
                      > > difference? To me it does not.
                      > > >
                      > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                      > you
                      > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                      > Roberts
                      > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                      > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks for your comments
                      > > >
                      > > > Gordon
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: javadave2
                      > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                      > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                      > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                      > > but
                      > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                      > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                      > of
                      > > the
                      > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                      > your
                      > > stem
                      > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                      > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                      > design.
                      > > It
                      > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                      > > inside
                      > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                      > > the
                      > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                      > > built
                      > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                      > > recut
                      > > > to those lines.
                      > > >
                      > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                      > > > Dave
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                      ups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                      > the
                      > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                      > > Spray
                      > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                      > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Gordon
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > > From: javadave2
                      > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                      ups.com
                      > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                      > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                      > > > design
                      > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                      > loft,
                      > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                      > the
                      > > > inside
                      > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                      > > Are
                      > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                      > > > > Dave
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                      ups.com, "hotwizard44"
                      > > <hotwizard44@>
                      > > > > wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                      ups.com, "John Kohnen"
                      > <jkohnen@>
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                      > > > > a 'deducted
                      > > > > > body plan'?
                      > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                      > the
                      > > > > building of
                      > > > > > a
                      > > > > > > Vintage:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee> com/6y8hee
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > --
                      > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                      > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                      > > span
                      > > > of
                      > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                      > > tasks,
                      > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                      > common
                      > > > sense
                      > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • gordocutter_1
                      Hello Mike!How are you? Thank you for the kindly words, its seems that you reach what I was trying to say, I don t know why I was misinterpreted by Gordon but
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 13, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hello Mike!How are you? Thank you for the kindly words, its seems
                        that you reach what I was trying to say, I don't know why I was
                        misinterpreted by Gordon but I'll sure be more careful for now on
                        if I make any comment on the group.

                        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dolph" <johndolph@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                        > really has a significantly different meaning and measure for
                        Gordo.
                        > He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is
                        plenty
                        > of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                        > more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.
                        >
                        > Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                        > sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                        > useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                        > laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.
                        >
                        > I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                        > whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's
                        just
                        > trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                        > He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins
                        design.
                        >
                        > Mike Dolph
                        >
                        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Arrogant
                        > >
                        > > I don't know, probably am.
                        > > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                        > Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                        > > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car
                        Hall
                        > Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                        > > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs
                        and
                        > owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf
                        game.
                        > >
                        > > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                        > Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                        > it's first storm right now.
                        > >
                        > > Gordon Brimhall
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: gordocutter_1
                        > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                        > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing
                        you, or
                        > > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize.
                        You
                        > > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment
                        about
                        > > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                        > > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge
                        like
                        > > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not
                        with
                        > > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can
                        tell
                        > > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT
                        can
                        > > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                        > >
                        > > Adaucto Mello
                        > >
                        > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Always somebody like you around.
                        > > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                        > > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                        > > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                        > > >
                        > > > smile
                        > > >
                        > > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                        > > >
                        > > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend
                        my time
                        > > on forums
                        > > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                        > > >
                        > > > Gordon
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > From: gordocutter_1
                        > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                        > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the
                        page! I
                        > > was
                        > > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about
                        his
                        > > boat,
                        > > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                        > > something
                        > > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                        > > weather
                        > > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                        > > capsize
                        > > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the
                        explanation
                        > > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was
                        a
                        > > study
                        > > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web,
                        don't
                        > > know
                        > > > if it's true.
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                        > > scale
                        > > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building
                        it
                        > > the
                        > > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames
                        out
                        > > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does
                        it
                        > > make a
                        > > > difference? To me it does not.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real
                        hard
                        > > you
                        > > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                        > > Roberts
                        > > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George
                        Buehlers
                        > > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Thanks for your comments
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Gordon
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > > From: javadave2
                        > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                        > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of
                        beam,
                        > > > but
                        > > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing
                        the
                        > > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds
                        off
                        > > of
                        > > > the
                        > > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would
                        change
                        > > your
                        > > > stem
                        > > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and
                        bearding
                        > > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                        > > design.
                        > > > It
                        > > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of
                        the
                        > > > inside
                        > > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments
                        to
                        > > > the
                        > > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've
                        already
                        > > > built
                        > > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them
                        and
                        > > > recut
                        > > > > to those lines.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                        > > > > Dave
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@>
                        wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking
                        from
                        > > the
                        > > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh
                        Slocum
                        > > > Spray
                        > > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra
                        1/2"
                        > > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Gordon
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > > > From: javadave2
                        > > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                        > > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with
                        most
                        > > > > design
                        > > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                        > > loft,
                        > > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn
                        to
                        > > the
                        > > > > inside
                        > > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these
                        lines.
                        > > > Are
                        > > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                        > > > > > Dave
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                        > > > <hotwizard44@>
                        > > > > > wrote:
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                        > > <jkohnen@>
                        > > > > wrote:
                        > > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting.
                        What's
                        > > > > > a 'deducted
                        > > > > > > body plan'?
                        > > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay
                        of
                        > > the
                        > > > > > building of
                        > > > > > > a
                        > > > > > > > Vintage:
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > --
                        > > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                        > > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the
                        whole
                        > > > span
                        > > > > of
                        > > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull,
                        unintelligible
                        > > > tasks,
                        > > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                        > > common
                        > > > > sense
                        > > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                      • javadave2
                        Hope to see you at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat festival! We just got the sail fitted yesterday and should have the Magic Wing there Friday morning:
                        Message 11 of 22 , Sep 1, 2008
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                          Hope to see you at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat festival! We just
                          got the sail fitted yesterday and should have the Magic Wing there
                          Friday morning:

                          http://www.woodenboat.org/boats/Boat_Detail.aspx?processID=561

                          Pictures will be posted to the site next week.

                          Dave

                          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the building
                          of a
                          > Vintage:
                          >
                          > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                          >
                          > They're doing it Right!
                          >
                          > --
                          > John <jkohnen@...>
                          > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
                          > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
                          > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
                          > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                          >
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