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Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat

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  • javadave2
    Thanks John! We plan to have her in the water for rowing within a week, hopefully making the tail end of the Lake Union Wooden Boat Festival. We should have
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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      Thanks John! We plan to have her in the water for rowing within a
      week, hopefully making the tail end of the Lake Union Wooden Boat
      Festival. We should have the hand sewn Egyptian Cotton sprits'l ready
      sometime in August, so she'll be in the Port Townsend Wooden Boat
      Festival with the full rig.

      Dave

      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
      >
      > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the building of
      a
      > Vintage:
      >
      > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
      >
      > They're doing it Right!
      >
      > --
      > John <jkohnen@...>
      > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
      > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
      > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
      > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
      >
    • hotwizard44
      ... body plan ? ... a
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 3, 2008
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        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
        >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's a 'deducted
        body plan'?
        > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the building of
        a
        > Vintage:
        >
        > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
        >
        > They're doing it Right!
        >
        > --
        > John <jkohnen@...>
        > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
        > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
        > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
        > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
        >
      • John Kohnen
        What s your name hotwizard? Welcome aboard! The deducted body plan is what you ve got after you deduct the thickness of the planking. It s used to make the
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 3, 2008
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          What's your name hotwizard? Welcome aboard!

          The "deducted body plan" is what you've got after you deduct the thickness
          of the planking. It's used to make the molds, or the frames if you're
          using sawn frames.

          On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:19:23 -0700, hotwizard44 wrote:

          > There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's a 'deducted
          > body plan'?
          >> David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the building of
          > a
          >> Vintage:
          >>
          >> http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
          >> ...

          --
          John <jkohnen@...>
          It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty
          gods or no God. <Thomas Jefferson>
        • John Kohnen
          I m looking forward to seeing Dave s Vintage at Port Townsend! Is it going to be on display, or are you just going to visit, Dave? We won t be having an Atkin
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 3, 2008
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            I'm looking forward to seeing Dave's Vintage at Port Townsend! Is it going
            to be on display, or are you just going to visit, Dave? We won't be having
            an Atkin booth at the festival, but I'll have my little, non-Atkin, camp
            cruiser on display down on the dock. All of you are invited to stop by and
            say, "hi."

            http://tinyurl.com/67z4cj

            On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:33:09 -0700, Dave C wrote:

            > Thanks John! We plan to have her in the water for rowing within a
            > week, hopefully making the tail end of the Lake Union Wooden Boat
            > Festival. We should have the hand sewn Egyptian Cotton sprits'l ready
            > sometime in August, so she'll be in the Port Townsend Wooden Boat
            > Festival with the full rig.

            --
            John <jkohnen@...>
            If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the
            guise of fighting a foreign enemy. <James Madison>
          • javadave2
            The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most design plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft, the deducted body plan are
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
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              The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most design
              plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
              the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the inside
              of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines. Are
              there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
              Dave

              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44" <hotwizard44@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@> wrote:
              > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
              a 'deducted
              > body plan'?
              > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
              building of
              > a
              > > Vintage:
              > >
              > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
              > >
              > > They're doing it Right!
              > >
              > > --
              > > John <jkohnen@>
              > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
              > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
              > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
              > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
              > >
              >
            • javadave2
              That s the plan, to have the boat on display at Port Townsend! I ll also bring the mylar lofts (and other calculations and stability curves), and some old
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
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                That's the plan, to have the boat on display at Port Townsend! I'll
                also bring the mylar lofts (and other calculations and stability
                curves), and some old related books. Hope to see you there!

                We launched the Vintage yesterday morning and rowed her over for the
                last day of the Lake Union Wooden Boat Festival. I also asked my gal
                Marie to marry me on our maiden voyage. She said yes!

                I'll have new pics posted late tonight.
                Dave

                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                >
                > I'm looking forward to seeing Dave's Vintage at Port Townsend! Is
                it going
                > to be on display, or are you just going to visit, Dave? We won't be
                having
                > an Atkin booth at the festival, but I'll have my little, non-Atkin,
                camp
                > cruiser on display down on the dock. All of you are invited to stop
                by and
                > say, "hi."
                >
                > http://tinyurl.com/67z4cj
                >
                > On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:33:09 -0700, Dave C wrote:
                >
                > > Thanks John! We plan to have her in the water for rowing within a
                > > week, hopefully making the tail end of the Lake Union Wooden Boat
                > > Festival. We should have the hand sewn Egyptian Cotton sprits'l
                ready
                > > sometime in August, so she'll be in the Port Townsend Wooden Boat
                > > Festival with the full rig.
                >
                > --
                > John <jkohnen@...>
                > If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the
                > guise of fighting a foreign enemy. <James Madison>
                >
              • Gordon
                How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the layout offset lines? I am building a small 9 6 Josh Slocum Spray and laying out my frames I
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
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                  How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum Spray and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2" planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.

                  Gordon


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: javadave2
                  To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                  Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                  The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most design
                  plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
                  the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the inside
                  of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines. Are
                  there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                  Dave

                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44" <hotwizard44@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@> wrote:
                  > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                  a 'deducted
                  > body plan'?
                  > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
                  building of
                  > a
                  > > Vintage:
                  > >
                  > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                  > >
                  > > They're doing it Right!
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > John <jkohnen@>
                  > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
                  > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
                  > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
                  > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                  > >
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Gordon
                  Well good luck on the getting married thing. I would rather have a new boat myself but I been married 40 yrs now and my wife has always let me get a new boat
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
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                    Well good luck on the getting married thing. I would rather have a new boat myself but I been married 40 yrs now and my wife has always let me get a new boat when I wanted one. Hope your Marie is the same way.

                    Gordon


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: javadave2
                    To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:45 AM
                    Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                    That's the plan, to have the boat on display at Port Townsend! I'll
                    also bring the mylar lofts (and other calculations and stability
                    curves), and some old related books. Hope to see you there!

                    We launched the Vintage yesterday morning and rowed her over for the
                    last day of the Lake Union Wooden Boat Festival. I also asked my gal
                    Marie to marry me on our maiden voyage. She said yes!

                    I'll have new pics posted late tonight.
                    Dave

                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm looking forward to seeing Dave's Vintage at Port Townsend! Is
                    it going
                    > to be on display, or are you just going to visit, Dave? We won't be
                    having
                    > an Atkin booth at the festival, but I'll have my little, non-Atkin,
                    camp
                    > cruiser on display down on the dock. All of you are invited to stop
                    by and
                    > say, "hi."
                    >
                    > http://tinyurl.com/67z4cj
                    >
                    > On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:33:09 -0700, Dave C wrote:
                    >
                    > > Thanks John! We plan to have her in the water for rowing within a
                    > > week, hopefully making the tail end of the Lake Union Wooden Boat
                    > > Festival. We should have the hand sewn Egyptian Cotton sprits'l
                    ready
                    > > sometime in August, so she'll be in the Port Townsend Wooden Boat
                    > > Festival with the full rig.
                    >
                    > --
                    > John <jkohnen@...>
                    > If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the
                    > guise of fighting a foreign enemy. <James Madison>
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • javadave2
                    Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam, but you could run into a number of other issues without doing the deducted body plan. For
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
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                      Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam, but
                      you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                      deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of the
                      outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your stem
                      and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                      lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design. It
                      probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the inside
                      of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to the
                      keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already built
                      your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and recut
                      to those lines.

                      Good luck, hope this helps!
                      Dave

                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
                      layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum Spray
                      and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                      planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                      >
                      > Gordon
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: javadave2
                      > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                      > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                      >
                      >
                      > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                      design
                      > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
                      > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
                      inside
                      > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines. Are
                      > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                      > Dave
                      >
                      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44" <hotwizard44@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
                      wrote:
                      > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                      > a 'deducted
                      > > body plan'?
                      > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
                      > building of
                      > > a
                      > > > Vintage:
                      > > >
                      > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                      > > >
                      > > > They're doing it Right!
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > > John <jkohnen@>
                      > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span
                      of
                      > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
                      > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
                      sense
                      > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Gordon
                      Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1 = 1 ft scale that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the old way plank on frame multi
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
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                        Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a difference? To me it does not.

                        This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org

                        Thanks for your comments

                        Gordon


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: javadave2
                        To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                        Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                        Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam, but
                        you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                        deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of the
                        outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your stem
                        and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                        lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design. It
                        probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the inside
                        of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to the
                        keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already built
                        your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and recut
                        to those lines.

                        Good luck, hope this helps!
                        Dave

                        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
                        layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum Spray
                        and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                        planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                        >
                        > Gordon
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: javadave2
                        > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                        > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                        >
                        >
                        > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                        design
                        > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
                        > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
                        inside
                        > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines. Are
                        > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                        > Dave
                        >
                        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44" <hotwizard44@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
                        wrote:
                        > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                        > a 'deducted
                        > > body plan'?
                        > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
                        > building of
                        > > a
                        > > > Vintage:
                        > > >
                        > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                        > > >
                        > > > They're doing it Right!
                        > > >
                        > > > --
                        > > > John <jkohnen@>
                        > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span
                        of
                        > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
                        > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
                        sense
                        > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • javadave2
                        Sounds like an interesting project on the famous boat, I ll keep an eye at the site, good luck! Dave ... that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from.
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 7, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Sounds like an interesting project on the famous boat, I'll keep an
                          eye at the site, good luck!

                          Dave

                          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale
                          that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the
                          old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                          deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a
                          difference? To me it does not.
                          >
                          > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you
                          can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts
                          Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                          methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                          >
                          > Thanks for your comments
                          >
                          > Gordon
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: javadave2
                          > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                          > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                          >
                          >
                          > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                          but
                          > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                          > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of
                          the
                          > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your
                          stem
                          > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                          > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design.
                          It
                          > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                          inside
                          > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to the
                          > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                          built
                          > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                          recut
                          > to those lines.
                          >
                          > Good luck, hope this helps!
                          > Dave
                          >
                          > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
                          > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                          Spray
                          > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                          > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                          > >
                          > > Gordon
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: javadave2
                          > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                          > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                          > design
                          > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
                          > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
                          > inside
                          > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines. Are
                          > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                          > > Dave
                          > >
                          > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44" <hotwizard44@>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
                          > wrote:
                          > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                          > > a 'deducted
                          > > > body plan'?
                          > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
                          > > building of
                          > > > a
                          > > > > Vintage:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                          > > > >
                          > > > > They're doing it Right!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --
                          > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                          > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                          span
                          > of
                          > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                          tasks,
                          > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
                          > sense
                          > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • gordocutter_1
                          What a tremendous challenge you re going into! I saw the page! I was always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his boat, after all lots of
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 10, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I was
                            always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his boat,
                            after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read something
                            disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of weather
                            a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can capsize
                            and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                            about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a study
                            made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't know
                            if it's true.

                            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale
                            that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the
                            old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                            deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a
                            difference? To me it does not.
                            >
                            > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you
                            can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts
                            Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                            methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                            >
                            > Thanks for your comments
                            >
                            > Gordon
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: javadave2
                            > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                            > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                            >
                            >
                            > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                            but
                            > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                            > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of
                            the
                            > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your
                            stem
                            > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                            > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design.
                            It
                            > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                            inside
                            > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                            the
                            > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                            built
                            > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                            recut
                            > to those lines.
                            >
                            > Good luck, hope this helps!
                            > Dave
                            >
                            > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
                            > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                            Spray
                            > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                            > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                            > >
                            > > Gordon
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: javadave2
                            > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                            > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                            > design
                            > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
                            > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
                            > inside
                            > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                            Are
                            > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                            > > Dave
                            > >
                            > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                            <hotwizard44@>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
                            > wrote:
                            > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                            > > a 'deducted
                            > > > body plan'?
                            > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
                            > > building of
                            > > > a
                            > > > > Vintage:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                            > > > >
                            > > > > They're doing it Right!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --
                            > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                            > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                            span
                            > of
                            > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                            tasks,
                            > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
                            > sense
                            > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Gordon
                            Always somebody like you around. Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it has 1/4th the same chances to capsize But it also has positive flotation and will
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 10, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Always somebody like you around.
                              Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                              has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                              But it also has positive flotation and will not sink

                              smile

                              So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?

                              I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time on forums
                              telling other people their boat is going to sink

                              Gordon



                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: gordocutter_1
                              To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                              Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                              What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I was
                              always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his boat,
                              after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read something
                              disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of weather
                              a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can capsize
                              and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                              about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a study
                              made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't know
                              if it's true.

                              --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft scale
                              that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it the
                              old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                              deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it make a
                              difference? To me it does not.
                              >
                              > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard you
                              can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce Roberts
                              Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                              methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                              >
                              > Thanks for your comments
                              >
                              > Gordon
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: javadave2
                              > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                              > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                              >
                              >
                              > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                              but
                              > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                              > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off of
                              the
                              > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change your
                              stem
                              > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                              > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray design.
                              It
                              > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                              inside
                              > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                              the
                              > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                              built
                              > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                              recut
                              > to those lines.
                              >
                              > Good luck, hope this helps!
                              > Dave
                              >
                              > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from the
                              > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                              Spray
                              > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                              > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                              > >
                              > > Gordon
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: javadave2
                              > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                              > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                              > design
                              > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the loft,
                              > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to the
                              > inside
                              > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                              Are
                              > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                              > > Dave
                              > >
                              > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                              <hotwizard44@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@>
                              > wrote:
                              > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                              > > a 'deducted
                              > > > body plan'?
                              > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the
                              > > building of
                              > > > a
                              > > > > Vintage:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                              > > > >
                              > > > > They're doing it Right!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --
                              > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                              > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                              span
                              > of
                              > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                              tasks,
                              > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common
                              > sense
                              > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • gordocutter_1
                              You understand everything wrong buddy! I m not criticizing you, or telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You don t need to be
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jul 10, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                                telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                                don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                                an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                                trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                                yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                                my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                                you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                                kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.

                                Adaucto Mello



                                --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Always somebody like you around.
                                > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                                > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                                > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                                >
                                > smile
                                >
                                > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                                >
                                > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                                on forums
                                > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                                >
                                > Gordon
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: gordocutter_1
                                > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                                > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                >
                                >
                                > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                                was
                                > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                                boat,
                                > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                                something
                                > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                                weather
                                > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                                capsize
                                > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                                > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                                study
                                > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                                know
                                > if it's true.
                                >
                                > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                                scale
                                > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                                the
                                > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                                > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                                make a
                                > difference? To me it does not.
                                > >
                                > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                                you
                                > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                                Roberts
                                > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                                > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                                > >
                                > > Thanks for your comments
                                > >
                                > > Gordon
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: javadave2
                                > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                                > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                                > but
                                > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                                > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                                of
                                > the
                                > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                                your
                                > stem
                                > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                                > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                                design.
                                > It
                                > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                                > inside
                                > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                                > the
                                > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                                > built
                                > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                                > recut
                                > > to those lines.
                                > >
                                > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                                > > Dave
                                > >
                                > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                                the
                                > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                                > Spray
                                > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                                > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                                > > >
                                > > > Gordon
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > From: javadave2
                                > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                                > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                                > > design
                                > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                                loft,
                                > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                                the
                                > > inside
                                > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                                > Are
                                > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                                > > > Dave
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                                > <hotwizard44@>
                                > > > wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                                <jkohnen@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                                > > > a 'deducted
                                > > > > body plan'?
                                > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                                the
                                > > > building of
                                > > > > a
                                > > > > > Vintage:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --
                                > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                                > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                                > span
                                > > of
                                > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                                > tasks,
                                > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                                common
                                > > sense
                                > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Gordon
                                Arrogant I don t know, probably am. I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker, Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG (Slot Cars). That
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jul 10, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Arrogant

                                  I don't know, probably am.
                                  I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker, Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                                  (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                                  Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.

                                  You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through it's first storm right now.

                                  Gordon Brimhall


                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: gordocutter_1
                                  To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                                  Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                                  You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                                  telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                                  don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                                  an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                                  trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                                  yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                                  my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                                  you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                                  kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.

                                  Adaucto Mello

                                  --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Always somebody like you around.
                                  > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                                  > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                                  > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                                  >
                                  > smile
                                  >
                                  > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                                  >
                                  > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                                  on forums
                                  > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                                  >
                                  > Gordon
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: gordocutter_1
                                  > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                                  > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                                  was
                                  > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                                  boat,
                                  > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                                  something
                                  > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                                  weather
                                  > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                                  capsize
                                  > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                                  > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                                  study
                                  > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                                  know
                                  > if it's true.
                                  >
                                  > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                                  scale
                                  > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                                  the
                                  > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                                  > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                                  make a
                                  > difference? To me it does not.
                                  > >
                                  > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                                  you
                                  > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                                  Roberts
                                  > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                                  > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks for your comments
                                  > >
                                  > > Gordon
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: javadave2
                                  > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                                  > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                                  > but
                                  > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                                  > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                                  of
                                  > the
                                  > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                                  your
                                  > stem
                                  > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                                  > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                                  design.
                                  > It
                                  > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                                  > inside
                                  > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                                  > the
                                  > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                                  > built
                                  > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                                  > recut
                                  > > to those lines.
                                  > >
                                  > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                                  > > Dave
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                                  the
                                  > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                                  > Spray
                                  > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                                  > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Gordon
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > From: javadave2
                                  > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                                  > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                                  > > design
                                  > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                                  loft,
                                  > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                                  the
                                  > > inside
                                  > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                                  > Are
                                  > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                                  > > > Dave
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                                  > <hotwizard44@>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                                  <jkohnen@>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                                  > > > a 'deducted
                                  > > > > body plan'?
                                  > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                                  the
                                  > > > building of
                                  > > > > a
                                  > > > > > Vintage:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > --
                                  > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                                  > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                                  > span
                                  > > of
                                  > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                                  > tasks,
                                  > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                                  common
                                  > > sense
                                  > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Mike Dolph
                                  I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo. He s a Brazilian who s
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jul 11, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                                    really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
                                    He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
                                    of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                                    more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

                                    Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                                    sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                                    useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                                    laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

                                    I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                                    whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
                                    trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                                    He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

                                    Mike Dolph

                                    --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Arrogant
                                    >
                                    > I don't know, probably am.
                                    > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                                    Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                                    > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
                                    Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                                    > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
                                    owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
                                    >
                                    > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                                    Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                                    it's first storm right now.
                                    >
                                    > Gordon Brimhall
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: gordocutter_1
                                    > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                                    > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                                    > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                                    > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                                    > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                                    > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                                    > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                                    > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                                    > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                                    > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                                    >
                                    > Adaucto Mello
                                    >
                                    > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Always somebody like you around.
                                    > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                                    > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                                    > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                                    > >
                                    > > smile
                                    > >
                                    > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                                    > >
                                    > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                                    > on forums
                                    > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                                    > >
                                    > > Gordon
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: gordocutter_1
                                    > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                                    > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                                    > was
                                    > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                                    > boat,
                                    > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                                    > something
                                    > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                                    > weather
                                    > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                                    > capsize
                                    > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                                    > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                                    > study
                                    > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                                    > know
                                    > > if it's true.
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                                    > scale
                                    > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                                    > the
                                    > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                                    > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                                    > make a
                                    > > difference? To me it does not.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                                    > you
                                    > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                                    > Roberts
                                    > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                                    > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Thanks for your comments
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Gordon
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > From: javadave2
                                    > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                                    > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                                    > > but
                                    > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                                    > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                                    > of
                                    > > the
                                    > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                                    > your
                                    > > stem
                                    > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                                    > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                                    > design.
                                    > > It
                                    > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                                    > > inside
                                    > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                                    > > the
                                    > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                                    > > built
                                    > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                                    > > recut
                                    > > > to those lines.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                                    > > > Dave
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                                    > the
                                    > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                                    > > Spray
                                    > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                                    > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Gordon
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > > From: javadave2
                                    > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                                    > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                                    > > > design
                                    > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                                    > loft,
                                    > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                                    > the
                                    > > > inside
                                    > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                                    > > Are
                                    > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                                    > > > > Dave
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                                    > > <hotwizard44@>
                                    > > > > wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                                    > <jkohnen@>
                                    > > > wrote:
                                    > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                                    > > > > a 'deducted
                                    > > > > > body plan'?
                                    > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                                    > the
                                    > > > > building of
                                    > > > > > a
                                    > > > > > > Vintage:
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > --
                                    > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                                    > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                                    > > span
                                    > > > of
                                    > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                                    > > tasks,
                                    > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                                    > common
                                    > > > sense
                                    > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • Gordon
                                    That is OK I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jul 11, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      That is OK
                                      I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if I even live to be 81 yrs old. But that gives me 14 years in planning and building. Some will say that is a pipe dream but my who life has been one Dream after another. I have worked hard all my life making my dreams come true like many others I think. Even going to college later after I was married with 3 kids and holding down a full time job as a machinist at McDonald Douglas Aircraft and only getting a few hrs sleep was not easy but it had to be done or my future would have not been as good as it has.

                                      If I had room I would quote some of tristan Jones writings about having dreams, I saved all his books for last and they are good. "Ice" especially. I have read probably every cruising book available over the past 25 yrs, many before I ever bought my first sailboat. My insperation was Tania Aebi and now I share emails with her 20 yrs after she sailed around the world as a young 18 yrs old.

                                      Gordon

                                      Always a Dream


                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Mike Dolph
                                      To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:42 AM
                                      Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat


                                      I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                                      really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
                                      He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
                                      of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                                      more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

                                      Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                                      sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                                      useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                                      laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

                                      I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                                      whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
                                      trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                                      He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

                                      Mike Dolph

                                      --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Arrogant
                                      >
                                      > I don't know, probably am.
                                      > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                                      Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                                      > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
                                      Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                                      > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
                                      owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
                                      >
                                      > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                                      Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                                      it's first storm right now.
                                      >
                                      > Gordon Brimhall
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: gordocutter_1
                                      > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                                      > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                                      > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                                      > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                                      > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                                      > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                                      > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                                      > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                                      > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                                      > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                                      >
                                      > Adaucto Mello
                                      >
                                      > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Always somebody like you around.
                                      > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                                      > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                                      > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                                      > >
                                      > > smile
                                      > >
                                      > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                                      > >
                                      > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                                      > on forums
                                      > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                                      > >
                                      > > Gordon
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: gordocutter_1
                                      > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                                      > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                                      > was
                                      > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                                      > boat,
                                      > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                                      > something
                                      > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                                      > weather
                                      > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                                      > capsize
                                      > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                                      > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                                      > study
                                      > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                                      > know
                                      > > if it's true.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                                      > scale
                                      > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                                      > the
                                      > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                                      > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                                      > make a
                                      > > difference? To me it does not.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                                      > you
                                      > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                                      > Roberts
                                      > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                                      > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanks for your comments
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Gordon
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > From: javadave2
                                      > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                                      > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                                      > > but
                                      > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                                      > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                                      > of
                                      > > the
                                      > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                                      > your
                                      > > stem
                                      > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                                      > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                                      > design.
                                      > > It
                                      > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                                      > > inside
                                      > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                                      > > the
                                      > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                                      > > built
                                      > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                                      > > recut
                                      > > > to those lines.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                                      > > > Dave
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                                      > the
                                      > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                                      > > Spray
                                      > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                                      > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Gordon
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > > From: javadave2
                                      > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                                      > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                                      > > > design
                                      > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                                      > loft,
                                      > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                                      > the
                                      > > > inside
                                      > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                                      > > Are
                                      > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                                      > > > > Dave
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                                      > > <hotwizard44@>
                                      > > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                                      > <jkohnen@>
                                      > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                                      > > > > a 'deducted
                                      > > > > > body plan'?
                                      > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                                      > the
                                      > > > > building of
                                      > > > > > a
                                      > > > > > > Vintage:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > --
                                      > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                                      > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                                      > > span
                                      > > > of
                                      > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                                      > > tasks,
                                      > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                                      > common
                                      > > > sense
                                      > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Alan Boman
                                      Remember:- You are not old until your dreams are replaced by regrets.... Alan ... From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jul 11, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Remember:-



                                        You are not old until your dreams are replaced by regrets....





                                        Alan



                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com] On
                                        Behalf Of Gordon
                                        Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2008 1:34 AM
                                        To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat



                                        That is OK
                                        I am here for the next build of either a Geroge Buehlers heavy 29 to 33 ft
                                        or a Atkins design same thing for when I try for the Oldest ATW record if I
                                        even live to be 81 yrs old. But that gives me 14 years in planning and
                                        building. Some will say that is a pipe dream but my who life has been one
                                        Dream after another. I have worked hard all my life making my dreams come
                                        true like many others I think. Even going to college later after I was
                                        married with 3 kids and holding down a full time job as a machinist at
                                        McDonald Douglas Aircraft and only getting a few hrs sleep was not easy but
                                        it had to be done or my future would have not been as good as it has.

                                        If I had room I would quote some of tristan Jones writings about having
                                        dreams, I saved all his books for last and they are good. "Ice" especially.
                                        I have read probably every cruising book available over the past 25 yrs,
                                        many before I ever bought my first sailboat. My insperation was Tania Aebi
                                        and now I share emails with her 20 yrs after she sailed around the world as
                                        a young 18 yrs old.

                                        Gordon

                                        Always a Dream

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Mike Dolph
                                        To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:42 AM
                                        Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat

                                        I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                                        really has a significantly different meaning and measure for Gordo.
                                        He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is plenty
                                        of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                                        more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.

                                        Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                                        sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                                        useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                                        laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.

                                        I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                                        whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's just
                                        trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                                        He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins design.

                                        Mike Dolph

                                        --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
                                        "Gordon" <gordon@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Arrogant
                                        >
                                        > I don't know, probably am.
                                        > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                                        Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                                        > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car Hall
                                        Of fame http://www.slotcars <http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/>
                                        .org/hallofame/
                                        > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs and
                                        owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf game.
                                        >
                                        > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                                        Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                                        it's first storm right now.
                                        >
                                        > Gordon Brimhall
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: gordocutter_1
                                        > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                                        > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                                        > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing you, or
                                        > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize. You
                                        > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment about
                                        > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                                        > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge like
                                        > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not with
                                        > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can tell
                                        > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT can
                                        > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                                        >
                                        > Adaucto Mello
                                        >
                                        > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
                                        "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Always somebody like you around.
                                        > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                                        > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                                        > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                                        > >
                                        > > smile
                                        > >
                                        > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                                        > >
                                        > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend my time
                                        > on forums
                                        > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                                        > >
                                        > > Gordon
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > From: gordocutter_1
                                        > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                                        > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                                        > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the page! I
                                        > was
                                        > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about his
                                        > boat,
                                        > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                                        > something
                                        > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                                        > weather
                                        > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                                        > capsize
                                        > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the explanation
                                        > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was a
                                        > study
                                        > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web, don't
                                        > know
                                        > > if it's true.
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        ups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                                        > scale
                                        > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building it
                                        > the
                                        > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames out
                                        > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does it
                                        > make a
                                        > > difference? To me it does not.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real hard
                                        > you
                                        > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                                        > Roberts
                                        > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George Buehlers
                                        > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Thanks for your comments
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Gordon
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > From: javadave2
                                        > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                                        > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                                        > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of beam,
                                        > > but
                                        > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing the
                                        > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds off
                                        > of
                                        > > the
                                        > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would change
                                        > your
                                        > > stem
                                        > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and bearding
                                        > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                                        > design.
                                        > > It
                                        > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of the
                                        > > inside
                                        > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments to
                                        > > the
                                        > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've already
                                        > > built
                                        > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them and
                                        > > recut
                                        > > > to those lines.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                                        > > > Dave
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        ups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking from
                                        > the
                                        > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh Slocum
                                        > > Spray
                                        > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra 1/2"
                                        > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Gordon
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > > From: javadave2
                                        > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        ups.com
                                        > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                                        > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with most
                                        > > > design
                                        > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                                        > loft,
                                        > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn to
                                        > the
                                        > > > inside
                                        > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these lines.
                                        > > Are
                                        > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                                        > > > > Dave
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        ups.com, "hotwizard44"
                                        > > <hotwizard44@>
                                        > > > > wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogro <mailto:AtkinBoats%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        ups.com, "John Kohnen"
                                        > <jkohnen@>
                                        > > > wrote:
                                        > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting. What's
                                        > > > > a 'deducted
                                        > > > > > body plan'?
                                        > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of
                                        > the
                                        > > > > building of
                                        > > > > > a
                                        > > > > > > Vintage:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee> com/6y8hee
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > --
                                        > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                                        > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
                                        > > span
                                        > > > of
                                        > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible
                                        > > tasks,
                                        > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                                        > common
                                        > > > sense
                                        > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • gordocutter_1
                                        Hello Mike!How are you? Thank you for the kindly words, its seems that you reach what I was trying to say, I don t know why I was misinterpreted by Gordon but
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jul 13, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hello Mike!How are you? Thank you for the kindly words, its seems
                                          that you reach what I was trying to say, I don't know why I was
                                          misinterpreted by Gordon but I'll sure be more careful for now on
                                          if I make any comment on the group.

                                          --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dolph" <johndolph@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I would discount arrogance as a cause of friction here Gordon; it
                                          > really has a significantly different meaning and measure for
                                          Gordo.
                                          > He's a Brazilian who's native language is Portuguese. There is
                                          plenty
                                          > of arrogance here and there but there it's meaning makes his advice
                                          > more like a fatherly admonition than a cutdown.
                                          >
                                          > Gordo is in the planning stages of building a traditional Atkin's
                                          > sloop; like translating white oak into a locally obtainable wood
                                          > useful for steam bending or to balance that strip planking over
                                          > laminated frames in locally obtainable woods.
                                          >
                                          > I give him extra credit for reaching over thousands of miles and a
                                          > whole culture to glean what he needs from forums like this. He's
                                          just
                                          > trying to be friendly and learn, he's not trying to make trouble.
                                          > He's also here for on topic reasons since his project is an Atkins
                                          design.
                                          >
                                          > Mike Dolph
                                          >
                                          > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Arrogant
                                          > >
                                          > > I don't know, probably am.
                                          > > I was called a Prima Donna way back when I was Model Maker,
                                          > Designer, and shop supervisor for Riggen MFG
                                          > > (Slot Cars). That was 30 yrs before they put me in the Slot Car
                                          Hall
                                          > Of fame http://www.slotcars.org/hallofame/
                                          > > Less than 100 people made it. Have been sailing for over 23 yrs
                                          and
                                          > owned 4 sailboats but learn each time I go out, Just like my Golf
                                          game.
                                          > >
                                          > > You have a nice day. It is raining cats and dogs now, Moonson
                                          > Weather and my building table and Spray backbone are going through
                                          > it's first storm right now.
                                          > >
                                          > > Gordon Brimhall
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > From: gordocutter_1
                                          > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
                                          > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > You understand everything wrong buddy! I'm not criticizing
                                          you, or
                                          > > telling that your beautiful little boat will sink or capsize.
                                          You
                                          > > don't need to be sentimental, or rude. All I did was a comment
                                          about
                                          > > an article that I read about the boat of Slocum. In fact I was
                                          > > trying to demonstrate my respect for such a great challenge
                                          like
                                          > > yours. I'll not get into an discursion about what I do or not
                                          with
                                          > > my life, but I do have some years of sea and one thing I can
                                          tell
                                          > > you, you should keep that arrogance a little lower cause THAT
                                          can
                                          > > kill you or sink any boat. God luck with your project.
                                          > >
                                          > > Adaucto Mello
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Always somebody like you around.
                                          > > > Got to remember mine is only 9 ft long so it
                                          > > > has 1/4th the same chances to capsize
                                          > > > But it also has positive flotation and will not sink
                                          > > >
                                          > > > smile
                                          > > >
                                          > > > So tell me what have you done in your life challanging?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I know it would be safer to just sit and watch TV or spend
                                          my time
                                          > > on forums
                                          > > > telling other people their boat is going to sink
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Gordon
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > From: gordocutter_1
                                          > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:16 AM
                                          > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > What a tremendous challenge you're going into! I saw the
                                          page! I
                                          > > was
                                          > > > always interested in the history of Slocum, and also about
                                          his
                                          > > boat,
                                          > > > after all lots of people like the Joshua lines, but I read
                                          > > something
                                          > > > disturbing about her, its seems that in strong conditions of
                                          > > weather
                                          > > > a boat of her lines and dimensions became unstable and can
                                          > > capsize
                                          > > > and not get right side up again, that was one of the
                                          explanation
                                          > > > about the disappear of Slocum in his last journey. This was
                                          a
                                          > > study
                                          > > > made by an naval arquitet I read in a article in the web,
                                          don't
                                          > > know
                                          > > > if it's true.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Not building a mold and all I have are lines in 1" = 1 ft
                                          > > scale
                                          > > > that I am coming up with the lofting numbers from. Building
                                          it
                                          > > the
                                          > > > old way plank on frame multi chine. I could lay the frames
                                          out
                                          > > > deducting for the plank thickness but my question was does
                                          it
                                          > > make a
                                          > > > difference? To me it does not.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > This is a one of a kind boat anyway and if you think real
                                          hard
                                          > > you
                                          > > > can say it is a Mini Spray and I got the lines from Bruce
                                          > > Roberts
                                          > > > Gratus, lines only and nothing else. Building to George
                                          Buehlers
                                          > > > methods. You can see the project at www.aroundinten.org
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Thanks for your comments
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Gordon
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > > From: javadave2
                                          > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:50 PM
                                          > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Well, it may not matter too much if you added an inch of
                                          beam,
                                          > > > but
                                          > > > > you could run into a number of other issues without doing
                                          the
                                          > > > > deducted body plan. For example, if you built your moulds
                                          off
                                          > > of
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > > outside of the planking on the body plan, that would
                                          change
                                          > > your
                                          > > > stem
                                          > > > > and keel in profile, and the corresponding rabbet and
                                          bearding
                                          > > > > lines. I don't know how much this would affect the Spray
                                          > > design.
                                          > > > It
                                          > > > > probably would be much easier to pattern the moulds off of
                                          the
                                          > > > inside
                                          > > > > of the planking than trying to make a bunch of adjustments
                                          to
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > > keel and stem, veering from the design. Or, if you've
                                          already
                                          > > > built
                                          > > > > your moulds, you could draw the inner plank lines on them
                                          and
                                          > > > recut
                                          > > > > to those lines.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Good luck, hope this helps!
                                          > > > > Dave
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordon@>
                                          wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > How much does it matter if you allow for the planking
                                          from
                                          > > the
                                          > > > > layout offset lines? I am building a small 9' 6" Josh
                                          Slocum
                                          > > > Spray
                                          > > > > and laying out my frames I really don't care if the extra
                                          1/2"
                                          > > > > planking or what ever I use makes my boat a little fatter.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Gordon
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > > > From: javadave2
                                          > > > > > To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:38 AM
                                          > > > > > Subject: [AtkinBoats] Re: How To Build A Wooden Boat
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > The body plan in the design plans for Vintage (as with
                                          most
                                          > > > > design
                                          > > > > > plans) are drawn to the outside of the planking. On the
                                          > > loft,
                                          > > > > > the 'deducted body plan' are the additional lines drawn
                                          to
                                          > > the
                                          > > > > inside
                                          > > > > > of the planking. The moulds are patterned from these
                                          lines.
                                          > > > Are
                                          > > > > > there other terms for 'deducted body plan'?
                                          > > > > > Dave
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "hotwizard44"
                                          > > > <hotwizard44@>
                                          > > > > > wrote:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen"
                                          > > <jkohnen@>
                                          > > > > wrote:
                                          > > > > > > >There are many things I don't know about lofting.
                                          What's
                                          > > > > > a 'deducted
                                          > > > > > > body plan'?
                                          > > > > > > > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay
                                          of
                                          > > the
                                          > > > > > building of
                                          > > > > > > a
                                          > > > > > > > Vintage:
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > They're doing it Right!
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > --
                                          > > > > > > > John <jkohnen@>
                                          > > > > > > > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the
                                          whole
                                          > > > span
                                          > > > > of
                                          > > > > > > > human existence . They are full of dull,
                                          unintelligible
                                          > > > tasks,
                                          > > > > > > > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of
                                          > > common
                                          > > > > sense
                                          > > > > > > > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • javadave2
                                          Hope to see you at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat festival! We just got the sail fitted yesterday and should have the Magic Wing there Friday morning:
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Sep 1, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hope to see you at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat festival! We just
                                            got the sail fitted yesterday and should have the Magic Wing there
                                            Friday morning:

                                            http://www.woodenboat.org/boats/Boat_Detail.aspx?processID=561

                                            Pictures will be posted to the site next week.

                                            Dave

                                            --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jkohnen@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > David Clemmer has created an excellent photo essay of the building
                                            of a
                                            > Vintage:
                                            >
                                            > http://tinyurl.com/6y8hee
                                            >
                                            > They're doing it Right!
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > John <jkohnen@...>
                                            > School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
                                            > human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
                                            > new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
                                            > and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
                                            >
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